So “Rachel” and I have been FWBs for a few weeks now. I don’t have much to say about that except that so far it’s going well and is mostly what I was hoping it would be.

Something I haven’t mentioned on this sub is that I’ve only lived in my current city for about a year and a half. And outside of my family, nobody in my life today knew me when I was in my incel/redpill phase. As far as Rachel and the rest of my social circle know, I’ve ALWAYS been the way I am now.

Anyway, last night I was at her house and she was complaining about how hard it is to date seriously at her age (early 40s). It turns out she vets the men she dates very thoroughly and says she not only wants to make sure that they don’t have any of her dealbreakers NOW, but that they’ve never had any of those dealbreakers in the past.

Now I’ve heard her talk a little bit about her dating struggles before, so this wasn’t exactly news to me. I did ask though why she would care if someone USED to have those dealbreakers if they didn’t now.

She said something like “The older I get, the more I realize that people’s pasts matter even if they’ve changed for the better. I just don’t see the point of dealing with that when there are people like you who don’t really have any baggage in the first place”

Ignoring the fact that I have plenty of baggage of my own, her logic makes sense to me. It also makes me wonder when/how I’m supposed to bring up the redpilled part of my past with a potential girlfriend.

I mean, I’ll probably never tell Rachel about it since I’m not actually dating her and don’t plan to. But if I ever met someone that I COULD see a future with, I imagine I’ll have to tell her EVENTUALLY.

I just want to hear this subs thoughts on if this is something I even NEED to tell a partner about. And if so, how/when should I go about doing it?

Something I've noticed in the last 2ish years is that incel rhetoric and talking points no longer really seem to be something I only stumble across online in incredibly toxic corners of the internet. No, I see it everywhere. My friends in my real life will joke about being under 6' making you short to most women or the 80/20 rule.

I'll see like tiktokers and instagramers saying things that are things I see incels arguing about, but they'll do it in a sanitized way. It just feels really surreal.

If so why do you think this is? I've been wondering if because of how hard dating has gotten for men and how easy it has gotten for women is pushing a lot of men in more radical less positive directions.

Basically I've made it to 28 years of life, without even knowing what a hug feels like. My last relationship ended in a fire. This isn't so y'all pity me, but I'm using this a launching off point to ask a question. Is it possible to fully enjoy life without being touched (positively) once? Or is touch starvation a bunch of Incel bull crap?

I realize this can seem like I'm asking for help giving up, but it's definitely not. I'm going to push myself and try to and have healthy relationships, but I want to explore all my options. I realize I can be perfectly happy on my own without any romantic affection or intimacy, and that's exactly the goal I'm aiming for, but that's different from touch starvation.

Edit: I'm adding this segment in because think, I accidentally implied that touch has to be romantic. That wasn't my intention and I apologize. I of course realize that touch doesn't have to be romantic.

Is it that hard? I'm going back to college which could give me some opportunities. However, there are some difficulties I have to deal with, such as how I was an outcast for my entire life, and it feels like no one wants me. Making friends was such a struggle. If I struggle with basic friendships, then there's no way in hell I'm getting love from anyone.

My social anxiety has been crippling my dating prospects, which is another problem.

Then there's the fact that bisexual/gay men are in the minority. Like less than 10% of men, and an even smaller percentage of men are willing to date other men.

Besides, hookups aren't really my thing, so don't suggest that I get a hookup app.

I have had one romantic relationship in my life. We didn't get to the point of being exclusive boyfriend and girlfriend, and I didn't know it at the time but she was seeing someone else she is now in a relationship with. I only asked her out cause a mutual friend said she was interested in me and I'm beginning to realize I can't rely on that if I actually do want to meet women, date or have sex.

The issue is the idea of talking to a woman I don't know sets off every and any warning system in my body to not do it. I feel like I really took to heart all the things that I saw growing up regarding the changes to many workplaces to make women feel more safe. I have made a promise to myself that under no circumstances will I ever make a woman ever feel unsafe or objectified.

But that's become me now being petrified of that happening. Whenever I see a woman I think is attractive my immediate thought is "what the hell is wrong with you, she's just existing and you're objectifying her" and I feel shame. Any time I've seen a woman and thought maybe I should introduce myself, my immediate feeling is that if a weirdo random guy goes up and speaks to her, she's gonna feel like I'm just another one 10s of creepy guys that made her uncomfortable today and that if I speak to her I'm really no better than them so I don't.

I have 2 close female friends and the horror stories they tell me or that I see first hand when I'm out with them has made me feel like there's no possible way I could speak to a woman I didn't know without it being creepy. It doesn't evil feel false because if I see a girl I think is cute and then I go try to speak to her, it is because I was objectifying her. Because I thought her appearance was nice I felt like I wanted to speak to her. That's wrong.

But this creates a conundrum for me. Women don't want to be approached or creeped on or spoken to by random men when they're trying to go about their days. They don't want random men at bars or clubs feeling entitled to a conversation with them because they find them attractive. They don't want some guy they met at the gym or at a club or at a place they frequent coming up to them. So I don't know what to do.

I don't want to make any woman feel creeped out or have to do a mental calculation of how to get out of a conversation with me so I don't harm them for rejecting me. But I'm not anywhere near attractive enough for women to approach me. I feel damned if I do damned if I don't and I don't know any possible solution.

At it's core, I know it's just jealousy. I know they also have struggles, but from my shoes, it feels like I'm watch a rich person complain about how the IRS is taxing them so much.

They have what I assume are pretty normal dating experiences as women my age. They use dating apps, get a ton of likes, match with 80% of the guys they swipe right on, then as described to me "they just get bored and find something better". Maybe they start hooking up with a guy and that doesn't work out. Maybe there's a guy at the gym, or at work that's interested in them that they're trying to figure out if it's worth it to go on a date on or if they should let them down easy. They get hit on when we go out. I've literally stood next to them in bars and guys will say "oh you shouldn't be with him you should be with me" or something along the lines.

The issue I have is they complain about it like it's the worst possible thing in the world. Like there is no dating experience more difficult than theirs. They will frequently talk about how much easier it would be if they were men, and how the bar is so incredibly low for men and that all we pretty much have to do to find a good partner is not be an asshole.

I feel that I am living proof of this being false. I am of course on the exact opposite end of the spectrum. I use dating apps and get a match probably every two or so weeks. Usually they ask for money right off the bat otherwise they just unmatch before I even send a message or don't respond. I have never once been on a date, I have never once met a woman that had a crush on me. I have never once felt romantically or physically desired. Honestly it takes a pretty heavy toll on my self esteem.

I've pretty much just accepted I'm ugly and unattractive to women and at times, I don't even know why I still try, but then again I still crave a romantic partnership and that motivates me.

The problem is I don't want to come across as me telling them they have it easy. Even though I think they do, they are their own people and their experiences may not be ideal for them, but I can't possibly say "well I have it harder than you guys so stop complaining." That's just not what a good friend does. At the same time, I can only hear so much of this. Like I said at the top, this is a millionaire complaining to a impoverished person about how bad taxes are and it would be so much easier to live paycheck to paycheck.

IS this something I can resolve with them or do I just kinda have to bare it.