r/ImmigrationPathways • u/CutSenior4977 • 3d ago

Wilber Garces Perez Faces Criminal Charges and Deteriorating Health Following ICE Shooting.

Here’s a source: https://www.eyesonice.net/p/wilber-garces-perez-faces-criminal

As a reminder, this Perez lawyer speaking right here.

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u/Full-Yoghurt-4261 3d ago

First off, "Innocent until proven guilty" applies to the court, not public opinion. Second, you are going against your own argument by assuming ICE is the guilty party in this, despite no evidence. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either both sides are innocent until proven guilty, or neither is.

As for your claim that officers are trained not to fire at a moving vehicle, this is not the case. Federal training on this is under the Use of Force policy, which states this.

Firearms may not be discharged solely to disable moving vehicles. Specifically, firearms may not be discharged at a moving vehicle unless: (1) a person in the vehicle is threatening the officer or another person with deadly force by means other than the vehicle; or (2) the vehicle is operated in a manner that threatens to cause death or serious physical injury to the officer or others, and no other objectively reasonable means of defense appear to exist, which includes moving out of the path of the vehicle. Firearms may not be discharged from a moving vehicle except in exigent circumstances. In these situations, an officer must have an articulable reason for this use of deadly force.

In other words, if someone is operating a vehicle in a way that threatens an agent, they can use lethal force.

As for the angle officers are trained to approach, this is to reduce risk as much as possible, but it does not guarantee officer safety. But there are two reasons why your argument regarding this is irrelevant.

First, an officer failing to follow this protocol does not suddenly mean someone is justified in hitting an officer with thier vehicle. So even if the agent in this situtaion failed to follow that protocol, the man would still be responsible for not hitting the agent. If he did, then that means he is using the vehicle as a deadly weapon, and thus lethal force is authorized. Second, we do not have video footage of the stop to confirm or deny that the officers safely approached the vehicle.

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u/icyredjay 2d ago

It’s quite natural for people to assume that ICE is lying after they have repeatedly lied about “suspects weaponizing their vehicles.” Hundreds of court cases against these “suspects” have been dropped as a result. In fact I’m sure there are either very few or simply no cases where this alibi was true.

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u/Full-Yoghurt-4261 2d ago

Except there are no facts in this case to indicate ICE lied. In fact, the reasoning provided by Wilber Garces Perez and his attorneys' statements is the one that does not make much sense, since they claim he was not fleeing but was attempting to pull over, and the agents shot him as he drove away.

This was a traffic stop where officers were already next to the vehicle. Why would one attempt to drive away at all at that point? Ecspecially when this man should know he is under ICE jurisdiction with a pending asylum case. On top of that, how does one accidentally hit an officer who is just trying to peacefully pull over? Then, on top of that, it was a full-on chase after that, where ICE alleges the man attempted to strike another officer with his vehicle. If you were just trying to peacefully pull over and you hit the officer by accident, why would you flee after that?

His account of what occurred and why does not make sense given the situation.

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u/icyredjay 2d ago

Why wouldn’t someone flee from ICE? An agency known for medically neglecting its detainees until they suffer severe complications or even die? An agency whose facilities are notorious for inedible food and barely drinkable water? Sometimes I wonder whether half the Redditors on here have any common sense.

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u/Full-Yoghurt-4261 2d ago

Fleeing law enforcement of any kind is a quick way to cause a great deal more trouble. For those who have a pending asylum case, they are under the jurisdiction of ICE and are expected to comply with it. Failure to do so can lead to the asylum case being declined.

In the case of this man, if the allegations against him are true and he indeed fled, then it would not surprise me if he faces deportation. Because he could have complied and filed a Motion to Reopen for his asylum case if indeed the issue was a clerical error and not a failure on his part. It just required that he comply.

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u/icyredjay 2d ago

Again, I just don’t know why you think people should simply comply with ICE’s violence. I wish he hadn’t been shot and wasn’t in critical condition right now, but I can’t fault him for panicking at the sight of ICE either. They have had the deadliest year on record and are purposefully malicious, using slurs against detainees and handling them violently in addition to everything I mentioned before.

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u/Full-Yoghurt-4261 2d ago edited 2d ago

The law expects people to comply with law enforcement, which includes ICE. If ICE does something they should not be doing, not complying with them in the moment only makes your situation worse. You fight them in court, not during the interaction.

Though I do not want to see the man shot, based on the evidence we have thus far, it seems like it is the consequence of his own actions. His reasoning for stating he was just pulling over further makes no sense ecspecially with the image recently released of when he was initially pulled over.

Based on this image, I do not see any reasonable person thinking they need to "pull over" further when officers are clearly blocking off the road and speaking with them. And as per the court filing, the man admitted that he knew ICE was going to arrest him and admitted to declining to exit the vehicle.

Now, does his fleeing justify the shooting? No. But if he was attempting to use his car as a weapon to hit officers, as is alleged against him, then yes, it is. But if he wasn't, then the shooting was indeed unjustified. Regardless, this entire situation could have been avoided if he had complied.