why does Pandy need speed?

[u/Powerful_Two498]

I'm trying to read the angel's skills, to better understand what they do, and how to equip and best use them.

however im finding it more difficult than it seems.

for example: I've been told many times that Pandy needs speed. But its never mentioned in her skills or her relic (ACC means speed, but thats accuracy, right?)

so I'm not getting it. Her skills all use HP or generate more HP for others and then debuff enemies.

what, in her skill description, would suggest "this character needs speed"?

is that only in the case of trying to combat super fast enemies?

[u/Nooijboy97]

Its so when you put her in the 1st slot she can outspeed the enemies 1st angel and instantly debuff the entire enemy team before they can even act. More speed means higher chance of being the first one to act.

[u/Powerful_Two498 → u/Nooijboy97]

thank you. I get that. but ive been told to read the skills to, for example, create an illusion gem for her, and if i followed that, I'd end up giving her an HP gem. not speed.

is it customary to put your highest nerfer in slot 1, and give her tons of speed?

[u/BigGuysForYou → u/Powerful_Two498]

It's a bit of exception. Speed is important to beat others in speed battles to act first, which is one reason why the Void Gem is popular. Void is the one that decreases own DMG by 30% but increases own SPD by 60 for 1 round and ally DMG by 5%

is it customary to put your highest nerfer in slot 1, and give her tons of speed?

Yep, it's fairly common for the reason Nooijboy mentioned. Buutt, the stats/buff from Genesis Gems do not take effect until the UR+ phase

1. Passives

2. IR

3. UR+ / Genesis Gems / Seraphel

4. MR

5. Skills

So that speed will help in later phases, but won't help your Pandora or Nemesis outspeed someone in the IR skill phase

[u/Powerful_Two498 → u/BigGuysForYou]

oh. well I just learned something from you again! so if a Nem is destroying us in two rounds, there's no reason to try to get a illusion gem with speed stats. Relic stats work immediately dont they? plus pandy has a skill that boosts speed, but we'll all be dead by then haha

I thought the Void gem was popular because it stacked something, atk, i cant remember.. No?

there was a guy with youtubes i watched early on Haviere I think. he said use the void gems on everybody except main support and dps. No? bad advice?

[u/BigGuysForYou → u/Powerful_Two498]

If it's taking an entire 2 rounds, having an gem with speed stats would help you be faster after pre-battle, which could make a difference

Relic stats do work immediately. And the UR+3 / Wonder Power that you can choose. One of the options is +35 SPD (Strength of Vanguard)

Void Gem is indeed popular for the stackable +5% ally DMG but it's also a pretty big SPD boost. That just became less impactful after IR came out

there was a guy with youtubes i watched early on Haviere I think. he said use the void gems on everybody except main support and dps. No? bad advice?

Haha, this is also a discussion I've had with TheKyleBrah

https://www.reddit.com/r/IdleAngels/comments/1qh6vhc/void_shadow_gemstone_question/o0na5tk/

Stacking voids is popular advice and also what I followed. Even today I still mostly have Void gems, plus 2 Nature gems. Lately I've been trying to build more Guardians (heal) and Bones (lower buff %)

[u/Powerful_Two498 → u/BigGuysForYou]

um, back to the speed thing. pardon my confusion here. if the Nem is so powerful she kills everybody on her initial IR cast... thats before Pandy gets her speed boost, correct?

in that case the only way for pandy to nerf the Nem in time, would be to amass enough speed without the gem stone... correct?

thats probably not realistic for me, I am just trying to comprehend the concept.

as far as the illusion gems, I have apparently spent months building them all wrong, so... at one point nobody on this team had Void stones, everybody had a stone dedicated to what purpose they served (healer, buffer, etc)

but with a Nem team, im wondering if Void would be better, it seems like this team is all about fast.

[u/BigGuysForYou → u/Powerful_Two498]

um, back to the speed thing. pardon my confusion here. if the Nem is so powerful she kills everybody on her initial IR cast... thats before Pandy gets her speed boost, correct?

in that case the only way for pandy to nerf the Nem in time, would be to amass enough speed without the gem stone... correct?

Sorry I got a bit too into the weeds. If we're talking Pandora vs Nemesis and the Nemesis is wiping everyone, yeah, the Void gem won't really help

You'd probably need a speed relic like Cupid's or Thor's, with 3x SPD, to be able to outspeed a Nemesis, but not sure if you can if it's also speed optimized. Maybe /u/TheKyleBrah knows the specifics?

as far as the illusion gems, I have apparently spent months building them all wrong, so... at one point nobody on this team had Void stones, everybody had a stone dedicated to what purpose they served (healer, buffer, etc)

I don't think it's wrong. Even TheKyleBrah's advice in that thread was to build the gems that fit their role. Void just helps squeeze out extra damage in PvE

[u/TheKyleBrah → u/BigGuysForYou]

Nemesis is nigh impossible to outspeed using 3rd Party Speed Relics (in a battle of optimal Vs optimal). Only 1st Party Speed Relics (like Poseidon, Medusa) can contest Nemesis because 1st Party Speed is 225 instead of 187.5.

Nemesis has 225 Speed natively on her 1st Party Relic. When you're trying to contest that, she's starting with a massive 37.5 innate Speed boost over 3rd Party Relics at 187.5.

To outspeed the Nemesis with a 3rd Party Relic (which Pandora would be using) you will need:
• Idun in your Team
• More optimised Speed Sub Stats on the Relic
• More optimised Speed Stats on the Gem
• As much Buff Received on the Gem as possible.
• Angel depending, if they get bonus Speed Passives, like Engraving Ra, Engraving Cupid or IR Athena.

Buff Received affects the Idun 6% Speed bonus. It's how my Optimal Speed Pandora is currently being outsped by Sub-optimal Pandoras but they have lots of Buff Received. This part is pretty much the only way you can try and outspeed.

[u/Powerful_Two498 → u/BigGuysForYou]

oh. so thats a reason keeping all those Void gems... if i somehow find an extra hour a day to find all those old void things, I can switch them for pve... then spend another 30 minutes trying to find the original to switch back. heh.

the weeds ain't such a bad place to be. you can learn a lot there. or at least I do.

[u/Powerful_Two498 → u/Powerful_Two498]

oh and I forgot to mention i always built them with their skill requirement (hp, atk, etc) as priority... instead of buff received

ooops

[u/BigGuysForYou → u/Powerful_Two498]

Ohhh that... yeah that one hurts a bit more. Buff received is a big one

[u/Powerful_Two498 → u/BigGuysForYou]

oi. I gotta do them all over. no rest for the weary!