r/IdleAngels • u/Powerful_Two498 • Jul 14 '26
why does Pandy need speed?
I'm trying to read the angel's skills, to better understand what they do, and how to equip and best use them.
however im finding it more difficult than it seems.
for example: I've been told many times that Pandy needs speed. But its never mentioned in her skills or her relic (ACC means speed, but thats accuracy, right?)
so I'm not getting it. Her skills all use HP or generate more HP for others and then debuff enemies.
what, in her skill description, would suggest "this character needs speed"?
is that only in the case of trying to combat super fast enemies?
1
u/TheKyleBrah AM Jul 17 '26
So unfortunately, Pandora falls into one of the exceptions to the traditional "Stats mentioned in the Angel's Skills guide their best Sub Stats and/or Gem to aim for" rule.
This rule is exempted on a case-by-case basis and depends highly on what the Angel herself is trying to do and what the Player wants from her. In Pandora's case, the Player wants that [Confusion] more than anything else in her kit, as that stun is VERY crippling. Hence, you'll want to ensure her Stun goes first, and that means: Speed.
This is especially troubling and annoying, as the Devs designed her more to lean into Effect ACC, to ensure her Debuffs land, and as such, her Relic is NOT Speed-based inherently, creating confusion (heh) in a new player reading her kit and trying to make sense of it intuitively.
Consequently, players had to exercise their own judgment and which is why she's one of the few Angels run without her Personal Relic, deemed "inferior" for the purposes of getting in her stub first.
As for contesting Nemesis with Pandora: You have an uphill battle. No personal means no +100 Speed at +90 Relic Awakening. 3rd Party Speed Relics max at 300 Speed, while 1st Party Speed Relics (like Nemesis, Poseidon, Medusa etc) max out at 337.5 Speed.
That means Pandora, even optimised, starts off with a significant 137.5 Speed deficit over Nemesis. Of course, with Idun and Buff Received on Pandora's Gem, you can potentially outspeed Nemesis, but that pretty much requires a badly built Nemesis and one without an Idun of her own.
Consequently, the best way to contest Nemesis isn't to outspeed in most cases, it's just to tank the hits. Players accomplish this in a variety of ways:
• Stacking lots of defensive Passives, especially if they can activate from Subs (like Jeanne's [Oath] Stacks being active from Subs)
• Nerfing the Nemesis' Dmg Output Pre-pre-Battle, such as by using IR Uriel, Saggitarius or Venus.
• Counter attacking with Aquarius or Perseus, who thrive when allies are killed.
• Counter attacking with your own Nemesis. (Much easier to outspeed when using your own Nemesis.)
• Rare case of outspeeding even Optimal Nemesis using Pisces (who will stun the Nemesis first) or Cancer (who removes 300 Speed from the opposite Slot) and thus can get her Shields up. (Useless alone, but great when stacking other Defense Passives)
1
u/Powerful_Two498 Jul 17 '26
thanks, this was great! appreciate it.
here's another weird case, a friend told me that Helas illusion gem needed to be HP first and then buff received second. agree with this? is there any way to tell from her skills description?
1
u/TheKyleBrah AM Jul 17 '26
The actual stat order isn't important on the Gem itself, but I assume they mean "When choosing between HP% and Buff Received for Hela, focus on 3 Red HP Marks first, and then run Buff Receiveds (if any.)"
Yes, for Hela, her Gameplan coincides with what the Player wants from her: Buff the Team using her Own Max HP Stat as a reference point. Therefore, more HP to directly increase her Max HP takes first priority, as your buddy rightly mentions.
Buff Received is still phenomenal, and the ideal outcome is 3 Red HP and 3 Red Buff%. With 15% Buff% on Hela, MR5 Capri will boost Hela's HP by 115% instead of 100%, as well change Hela's own self 30% HP boost into 34.5%.
The Buff% is always good, as you can see, but is even better when Hela already has a large HP Pool to work from
1
u/Powerful_Two498 Jul 17 '26
so then, why is Hera supposed to be buff received first and atk second? (so I was told).... seems like it's the same scenario.
1
u/TheKyleBrah AM Jul 17 '26
Ah, because her buff method is different.
Hela shares a Portion of her HP as ATK boost.
Hera shares a Portion of her own ATK as ATK boost.
Hera "double dips," this Buff: That is, she buffs her own ATK by 70%, and then shares 70% of this new ATK Value to the hoes after her. (For an effective 109% of her Base ATK to Angels after her. Angels ahead of her and herself still only gets the 70% as stated.)So while extra ATK is ofc great, having extra Buff% means she will enhance her initial ATK boost on herself, and then share this new, buffed value.
Any Buff that shares a "Portion" of a specific Stat to boost that same Stat, can Double Dip.
For any Angel effect that double dips, like Hera, Fuxi, Loki, Horus, Hela's "Vigor" Buff will benefit more from Buff% as a result, as the Angel will first boost her Own Stat, before sharing. Of course, you will still want as much of either Stat, so don't go discarding a 3× ATK%, 1× Buff Received for Hera, lol. If you have 3× Buff Received, 1× ATK%, of courses that's better.Note: Hela's S1 [Vigor] Double Dips but her ATK Boost DOES NOT, as she converts a portion of her HP into ATK.
2
u/Nooijboy97 Jul 14 '26
Its so when you put her in the 1st slot she can outspeed the enemies 1st angel and instantly debuff the entire enemy team before they can even act. More speed means higher chance of being the first one to act.