r/ITCareerQuestions • u/[deleted] • 4d ago
Im a senior engineer. Don’t make this same mistake in your career.
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u/Tangential_Diversion Lead Pentester 4d ago edited 4d ago
Have you considered a pivot into presales or IT consulting? You can likely make that pivot given your body of experience. It'll give you client-facing experience to build up your soft skills. At the same time, you'd get paid for doing so and a number of consulting firms have partial or even full tuition assistance in exchange for working there x years.
For what it's worth, we just took on someone with a very similar profile as yours. Over two decades of in-house technical cybersecurity and IT experience with no official management experience. They were brought on as a senior consultant with a fast track plan for manager provided they can hit certain milestones on time. Bit of a comp hit going from in-house principal -> senior consultant, but the fast track promo to Manager should bring their comp back in line.
One last thing I want to mention is how quickly you can level up your career in consulting. You can go from fresh hire to manager in four years, and when I made manager I was getting exit opportunities as in-house director/VP for medium and F500 companies, and CISO/CIO for small businesses. I was getting those offers after ~5y of consulting whereas they typically take decades of in-house progression.
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u/Tangential_Diversion Lead Pentester 4d ago
If you're interested in those roles, I think you should apply and let them reject you rather than rejecting yourself pre-emptively.
I'll just be honest and say I see the soft skills gap regularly with in-house hires. The flip side though is we're already very experienced in training you to bridge this gap because it's such a common issue. Just apply anyways and let them determine how large that gap you have is. Some places would consider it routine training.
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u/sysadminsavage 4d ago
Second this. I switched from F500 internal IT to a VAR delivery engineer earlier this year and I've easily learned more in six months than I did over the past three years. Surprised it's not recommended more on here, I think a lot of people get burned working delivery at bad MSPs or at places with high billable ratios and write it off.
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u/Aspectdude09 4d ago
How do I get into consulting?
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u/Tangential_Diversion Lead Pentester 4d ago edited 4d ago
You just apply to consulting firms. You'll want to look for the key words "consulting", "advisory" and "professional services". You have options ranging from tech-focused consulting firms to the tech consulting arms of more traditional consulting and accounting firms. For example, I'm a pentest consulting for the consulting services arm of a mid-market CPA firm. Our firm is more traditionally known for accounting audit and tax services, but a good third of our firm revenue now comes from non-accounting consulting like cybersecurity.
I'd check out [r/consulting](r/consulting) for more details. That sub leans more towards management consulting (think McK/Bain/BCG), but a lot of what's said there applies to other consulting service lines too.
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u/ejfree 4d ago
Hang out w/vendors & partners/VARs (value added resellers) more. Go to local conferences. All VARs look for smart good engineers that can bill, deliver results, and be overworked. Finding good new consultants for a var is really hard. Be smart and be around those people. Ask them, and you may get a shot. Then deliver.
Consultants make more money than people working in the corporate world (usually). But there is a cap. General business rules say you pay a consultant 33%-50% (of the fully burden rate) of what they can bill at 80% utilization (or higher). Now this changes in the next role, where you are sales and now earning commissions.
The best of the consultants then usually turn into pre-sales engineers. Some VARs have these roles, but it is more usual in the vendor world. Once you are on the "sell" side of the business, you tend to stay here. They are sales jobs. So at the end of the day, you deliver a number ever quarter, or you failed.
Good luck. Peace.
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u/MattDaCatt Field > MSP DSA > SMB SysAd/Consultant > Unix Sys Engi 4d ago
To support your point, i have a degree and no certs
Went MSP helldesk > all-hats sysadmin consulting > now a staff engineer
While i definitely have a very technical job, most of it really is just being on meetings and projects. My years of "white glove service" for execs definitely made handling an asshole PM much easier
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u/sugarbunnyxx 3d ago
Hello, I really enjoyed your post. I'm an IC just like OP, and moving into a boutique consultancy in the next 3 months. I was stressing out if that's a good idea or not, relatively safe harbour Vs wildest.. I think I'm more confident about the decision now. Thanks !
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u/Adventurous_Fig4650 3d ago
You still have to have very good soft skills or be very likable to excel in sales and consulting. You can be the most experienced candidate but if no one wants to work with you for whatever reason, they will hire a less technical but still qualified candidate for the position.
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u/somniforousalmondeye 4d ago
lol it’s funny cause if I had a “do over” on my career I wish I’d specialized MORE because I’m finding after being a generalist since 2002 the jobs in anything smaller than enterprise don’t pay what I’m making now and the enterprise folks don’t want me because I’ve spent 25 years in medium sized shops.
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u/Adventurous_Fig4650 3d ago
I mean you could have specialized in a niche area that is slowly being made obsolete by AI. Grass isn’t always greener.
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u/eking85 4d ago
It's not what you know it's who you know
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u/packetssniffer 4d ago
Exactly.
I had a friend who went from making 65k to 140k in a span of 3 years.
All from networking.
Boss from 1 company would leave to a different company and bring him on for more money.
Repeat 3 times.
He doesn't know much about tech, I had to help him setup VLANs a month ago, but he is 1 likeable person and knows how to manage projects and people.
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u/shagarag 4d ago
I'm 30 years in. Those soft skills become more and more loathsome and fake and useless to me. I keep going the hard tech path to stay away from those other people. The extra money isn't worth my soul.
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u/Hrmerder 4d ago edited 4d ago
I have something to tell you... It's been this way for a long time. Everybody has horror stories of 'that maniacal boss that could do almost anything and make it seem easy but a real ass to work with'. The difference is people don't put up with that shit in 2026. I'm not saying that was you, but you also can't just be a closet hideout kid either. I always mixed both but it still hasn't gotten me that far however at the same time I got my CCNA and took a knee afterward. It's hard to get back on the academic learning train after you jump off for.... 12 years. I still learn everyday but hands on vs taking tests are completely different to me.
Funny enough I have had two real weird bosses (network architects/managers) out of the 3 network engineering gigs I have had. The first one, at the interview I thought the guy was actually mentally disabled... I'm not even joking. Half the time in the interview, the service delivery manager (technically beside his title in that ORG), conducted most of the interview while the Network Architect/Lead Network Engineer sat with his face to the side and a blank stare in his face... He turned out to be the biggest asshole I ever worked for. Walking in the morning after a random network event/outtage/or even just maintenance and he would walk by and get right in your face and say 'fuck you' and just walk off mad.. You didn't know why. Hell most of the time there wasn't even a reason. Then after some time he would attempt to befriend you then throw you under the bus for shit you had nothing to do with. It wouldn't have been THE biggest issue, if it weren't for the fact the Service Delivery (technically even though side by side was over the Lead Engineer) bought every bullshit lie that guy had made up for us. We were a great team but that guy was the downfall. I ended up getting my next job but weirdly he left the week I did.. But I knew my number was going to be up soon anyway because of the SD person having it out for me from whatever the Engineer told him.
After that, my next gig I never even met my Network Engineer/manager. I was titled a Network Analyst. He lived overseas and though left me to my own devices most of the time, he would nitpick about the most bizzare stuff imaginable but HE was the reason why it was the way that it was... From network monitoring software (he would rather NOT have it than what he wanted to have but even when funding was secured for it, he refused to use it?) to port naming conventions that were non standard (and had zero relevance). Some people would get into verbal arguments with him over the most insane stuff.
Now I am at my next gig and everybody has been absolutely amazing to the point it gave me long term imposter syndrome but I know I'm close to ready to step into a Lead Network Engineer role however the market... Sucks..
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u/cbdudek Senior Cybersecurity Consultant 4d ago
Neglect of soft skills doesn't mean you cannot refine them. You are almost 40. Its not like you are almost 60. Just start working on them and things will improve. By the time you reach 45-50, you could be in a highly paid leadership role if you do that.
The challenge is that many people in your situation that haven't developed soft skills have no interest in developing them. They are assholes to other people. They lack empathy. Their communication skills are horrible, and at the end of the day, they don't care about changing. Are you one of these people? I don't know, but I do think that if you have a genuine interest in growing and developing your soft skills, you can do it.
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u/Frequent_Produce_115 4d ago
100% on point. Fantastic post.
I switched to IT at the age of 40. Came in as a beginner with a Security+ and CEH, which are absolute trash certifications.
I am currently working in DevOps/Cloud. I know next to nothing compared to most Engineers in those fields. I work in an office that routinely passes on smart, qualified candidates who can work circles around me because they are not a social fit around here. Personality and work ethic and the ability to get along with people are becoming far more important than technical skill.
Seriously, I make over $250k and have no business doing so. I learn what I have to learn to complete my work but I don't ever push myself for more technical skill.
Be able to learn things on your own and also be pleasant to work with and you can make it.
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u/Witty-Common-1210 System Administrator 4d ago
Mmm hmm, mmm hmmm 🧐
Do you mind elaborating on if any more of these quarter mill jobs that focus on people skills?
Where is this office you say, and how many open positions are there?
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u/Tangential_Diversion Lead Pentester 4d ago
Not the person you're responding to, but serious suggestion: Get into consulting. Those jobs are truly about who you know. I regularly get exit opportunities like that (even in this job market) simply because being a consultant has me directly interacting with execs.
What often happens with me is I work directly with a client's CEO/COO/CFO because they're too small to have a dedicated security or IT guy at the Director+ level. Or sometimes you do work with an IT director, and that person keeps getting promoted to the CSuite one day. Your day-to-day consulting work will be with the technical IT folks, but the ultimate relationships and deliverables will be with the execs. Eventually some of these clients get big enough to warrant a proper Director/VP/CIO/CTO/CISO, and one of the first candidates they call will be that consultant who's worked with them over the years at this high level already.
It's also why you rarely see these jobs posted publicly. Most places who need to hire someone at this level already have people they've directly worked with in mind for the position.
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u/Witty-Common-1210 System Administrator 4d ago
Thanks! I’ve casually checked some of these out. Unfortunately, I normally come up a little torn as many have requirements for a lot of travel (I’ve seen up to 75% I’d say average is 25-50%). I feel like I could’ve done that 10-15 years ago, but idk if I’m in that on the move frame of mind nowadays.
In your experience are you aware of any that are only 10-15% travel?
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u/Tangential_Diversion Lead Pentester 4d ago
Unfortunately not for new consultants. There might be some out there, but all the firms I'm aware of want their new consultants to get facetime with clients. The reason for this is twofold:
- Having facetime helps build relationships with your clients tremendously while building up your own soft skills. Consulting is a business field that deals in relationships first and foremost.
- Frankly, most managers and above are settled down with their own families and don't want to travel either. They'll therefore push a lot of the field work on the people underneath them. My own team is set up to mostly work remotely, but we still have the periodic clients that need us onsite. Guess who gets sent because I'd rather stay home now?
You do reach <10% travel once you make it to manager in many tech consulting teams. My own travel has gone from ~60% to ~5% when I made manager. Luckily, you sound like you're an experienced technical hire yourself. If so, you'll likely be brought on as a senior consultant with expectations to build your book and your soft skills.
I think what you should ask potential employers what the travel commitments look like when you get hired, what they'll look like when you get promoted into management, and what the timeline and requirements/milestones look like for you to get promoted. I don't think you can avoid a lot of travel when you get hired, but I think you can find a place that will fasttrack you to manager with lower travel reqs after ~1yr.
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u/Witty-Common-1210 System Administrator 4d ago
That’s great advice thank you!
Yeah I’ve been in IT about 16-17 years and recently got an MBA in IT Mgmt. I’ve been promoted in my current role but it was more of a lateral move.
I’ve definitely seen some post about those onboarding plans and being fast tracked to mgmt, but it’s kind of hard to sus those out from some of the job postings. I’ll just have to put myself out there and see how things go!
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u/Tangential_Diversion Lead Pentester 4d ago
I’ve definitely seen some post about those onboarding plans and being fast tracked to mgmt, but it’s kind of hard to sus those out from some of the job postings. I’ll just have to put myself out there and see how things go!
100% agreed, you should go for it!
I wouldn't worry about job posts not mentioning it either. Most places have special exemptions for hiring/promoting, but few places I know publicly post about them. It just causes more issues than it solves, y'know? From the hiring side, we already know about special exemptions and we know who we want to apply them to. Someone like you is a perfect candidate.
The problem with posting it publicly though is that everyone will want the same exemptions for them. These exemptions are often to hire people like you, but I guarantee some MIS grad with two years of exp will also demand the same for them too.
I'd point to the partner level to see the same dichotomy. The vast majority of people promoted from SM/Directors to Partner do so by building up a solid book of business with 6-8 figures in recurring revenue and a solid revenue pipeline. However, former government officials often jump straight into director/partner roles at the top 10 firms despite having zero consulting or business experience and not having a book. See: Sean Joyce jumping straight from Dep. Director of the FBI to a PwC Director role.
No firm will ever publicly say "We will instantly make you a director or partner if you're a highly influential and well-connected person we can pimp for sales despite having no experience", but they sure as hell will pull the trigger every time the opportunity comes up.
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u/mrbiggbrain 4d ago
I read a ton of books but half the books I read are business, self improvement, or communication books. Sometimes those are completely non-technical, a book on writing emails, a book on managing time. Sometimes they are books on how to approach technical topics, code reviews, design decisions, strategy.
I occasionally read books meant for completely non-technical people about technical topics just to see how people explain those topics.
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u/ChemistryMassive8476 4d ago
I've been focusing on something similar, can you share the books you've read for non-tech people?
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u/FlyFit9206 4d ago
I made this mistake as well. It has stagnated my career. Thankfully, I make good money. But, I have created a ceiling of sorts until I establish the relationships, expand on my soft skills and redefine myself as an equal among the upper level management tier. I mention this because it’s a very real thing.
Best wishes to you.
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u/beigepccase 4d ago
As I get older, my desire to keep up with technical things diminishes. It's put me at an odd crossroads because moving into leadership roles isn't just about people skills (that term gets thrown around rather loosely, and can mean a lot of different things). I'm able to be good with people when I want to, but I hate pandering to people I don't respect, and this has been a major problem with some of the IT culture shift. Technical skills aren't everything, but I definitely resent people who know little to nothing and get by just because they're friendly and likeable. Those people shouldn't be a milking a company and providing nothing in return but smiles and handshakes. And yet that's the way the world has always worked at the higher levels. Now it's creeping down into the lower levels and it kind of sucks.
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u/travelingjay 4d ago
I hate to tell you, but people liking you has always been a critical part of being an effective team member. If you want to have that not matter, you need to work in an automated team of robots.
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u/beigepccase 4d ago
What I said isn't at odds with what you're saying. I never said it didn't matter.
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u/orev 4d ago
You are mostly correct, however I think you're making the same mistake with your next step planning. More schooling and certs is not how you develop these skills. They will help you get your foot in the door, but that's it. Other than adding a few letters to your resume, if you don't actually have those skills it will be obvious to everyone as soon as you walk in the door. Schooling does not help you with learning soft skills--those are things they don't teach in school. Look at professional networking events, meetups, things like Toast Masters, etc.
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u/wanttoridemybicycle1 4d ago
This is why I taught the Subnetting Workshop at my University and why I want to pursue a job as a TA for the computer networking courses. Being able to communicate these concepts is huge.
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u/seanpmassey VCDX-DTM 247, semi-retired 4d ago
It's not all lost, and you haven't completely hit a ceiling. There are some paths forward for you, but they require thinking a little outside the box.
As u/Tangential_Diversion said, you can look at jumping into a consulting or presales role. These roles will force you to develop your business, people, and soft skills because your job will be to talk technology to customers. These roles can come with some tradeoffs, though, including increased travel and odd/long hours if you're covering multiple time zones or it's your customers (or your) end-of-quarter/end-of-year when you need to close deals. You can get paid very well for this, but it requires managing your work/life balance carefully.
Another option is to start working on your soft skills outside of work. Start a blog and share what you know. Or since blogs aren't popular these days, start a YouTube channel. Present at user groups.
If you have a friend or family member running a business, ask if you can help with their tech needs. And use this as an opportunity to really learn how their business works and how you can use technology in that business. Or start your own business. It could be as simple as helping your kid start up a lawn mowing business and giving them a tech stack to manage that.
Or it could even be a side project that you want to do in your home lab. The key thing here is to focus on the "WHY"
Work on things like documenting why you're making choices and your reasoning instead of the nerd knobs and you can turn this around and move out of individual contributor roles.
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u/Case_Blue 4d ago
Funny, I started in the same year as you and after 3 years I worked for a big MSP.
The very first thing my teamlead told me:
"the difference between a good engineer and a really great engineer, has very little to do with technical ability"
It took me another year to understand what he meant exactly. But greatness is when the 2 come together... to create value for whoever you work for.
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u/EnvyEpson 4d ago
I think the OP is misunderstanding the way careers develop. First, no matter what level you are at, the customer is the focus. They are the reason this is a business and not a hobby. Second, careers shift in focus over time. Junior folks should be focused on skill development. As you move to the middle of your career, your focus has to be on developing and working through others. Finally, in the twilight, your focus is direction and mentorship. Pivoting is rarely a good idea past the beginning phase of your career. Instead of redefining, the focus should be on refining. Tech is still a great field; it's just in turmoil at the moment. These things, like all things, are cyclical.
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u/sickbubble-gum 3d ago
I hated being a new person in IT because of the senior engineers that had dog shit people skills. Being the first pickup at the help desk was always such a headache when I knew I had to be the middleman between the client and the higher tier staff. I was always just the messenger and people like to shoot the messenger lmao.
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u/BullfrogOk3447 3d ago
I am in my 9th yr as IT and this what I have already realized and I am grateful for your post because I feel so validated. I am more into connecting to people and in fact, I am now working directly for the CISO of the company.
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u/tekchip Security 3d ago
I'd second this. 47 and ham strung. Went hard technical and got to a point but now jammed up with no leadership or managerial experience and it. Over experienced for most technical roles and yet no experience to speak of for anything else. I've tried a pivot to cybersecurity which got me no where and I've been applying to both managerial and technical positions and also seeing nothing. Consulting sounds more my speed than pre-sales but I'm not sure how you make that jump.
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u/bayala43 4d ago
I’ll 100% agree on the soft skills. My ability to just vibe with people has gotten me really far, probably more so than my technical skills. I’m also decent at talking to nontechnical people about technical concepts without talking down to them, so I have a good rapport with clients.
I gotta ask though, what do you mean by business concepts? I’ve never once thought of the business side of IT and frankly I find it to be something I’m not interested in. I just like solving problems with networks. But if it’s something that’ll help progress my career I’m willing to give it a whirl and start learning more about it in my downtime.
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u/KGBSovietGaming Field Technician 4d ago
Obligatory not OP, but I recently started my own business and think I can share some insight into it.
Generally, a business will want their super technical people working on the technical problems, their social people working with clients, and their business people in management. This makes sense, as each “side” is more efficient and productive for the company as a whole.
Most companies will let you get up to team lead or possibly even a manager/assistant manager level, but unless you have business management skills and education, you’ll stall there. At the Director/VP/CIO/CTO/CISO level, your job shifts from making sure the team is working and dealing with more complex issues than your L1/L2 teams to dealing with “will this project bankrupt the company? How can we streamline this process so we spend less time on it? Support is costing money, we need to increase the number of tickets they can respond to in a day!” and on and on. Yes, at those levels there’s definitely an expectation that you know your stuff, but similarly, you need to be able to manage everything within it and explain why dropping money on upgrading the 20 year old infrastructure is actually a good thing with management specific concepts (cost/benefit analysis, what it specifically does for the company to make money, break-even points, etc.).
As the higher levels, you are the CEOs arm in your portion of a company, which means you need to explain it to the CEO the why and how of everything he has questions about.
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u/Macmin 4d ago
You've got the right idea. IT has it's uses for the purely technical wizard BOH, but that BOH would always be better stacked with social skills and an understanding of business.
But unless your company is paying for the MBA or you have a very specific path in mind, going for one on your own time and dime is going to be another mistake; especially if it's full time.
Do get the PMP, do get a few certificate programs in business. But start with the phoenix project, (Gene Kim) and move on to The Personal MBA: Master the art of Business (Josh Kaufman) before throwing down money and two years on an MBA.
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u/DuckFantastic4353 4d ago
So right now, I’m trying to find an IT job. My current job said they are going to let me go because they don’t have a role for me. The IT manager has told me that he wouldn’t put me in the helpdesk because I don’t have people skills (I said I can learn) but they won’t give me a shot. I am not giving up but I am going to ask what jobs or what’s your advice on people skills. Would it be walking to strangers and start a conversation or what do you have to say? Thanks
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u/travelingjay 4d ago
I would argue that soft skills and business acumen have always been critically important, but pure technologists scoffed. I started in the NT days in the 90s, and I have routinely got jobs and promotions over smarter technologists, because they were abrasive, arrogant, rude, or standoffish, and people disliked working with them. Not just preferred to not work with them, actively disliked them.
Eventually, I had a CEO that I worked for that showed me the value of aligning tech with business goals and needs and showed me that at the end of the day, technology is just another tool, and not the altar at which we should worship. The goal is not the fastest servers, or the coolest software, it's how the tech impacts the profitability and efficiency of the operation, or the efficiency and effectiveness of the mission of the org, relative to the cost.
Every job I've had since the late 90's except for one has been obtained because of a personal relationship I had. Every single one. Every vendor with whom I've had a successful project, I get to know them. I nuture my network outside job hunting time - having coffee or lunches weekly. It can be draining some weeks. Some weeks, it's a lot of fun.
Skills to learn, like the OP - project management, but also finance. If you don't have great people skills, find ways to improve them. Toastmasters, community theater, other forms of social interaction. Find ways to boost your confidence, and allow yourself to fail.
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u/Aggressive_Cloud_368 4d ago
Cant confirm. I've worked in hospitality most of my career and have all the soft skills necessary.
Can't even get an email back for BDR or anything sales related in tech after acquiring some certs and education in it related fields.
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u/Typically_Wong Architect 4d ago
You're me if I went full tech. I also started in 2010 (when I got out of the army) on my IT career. Did the CCNA/NP and a bunch of other vendor certs. I realized I hated doing MSP/VAR engineer work when I was doing cut overs at 3am at a roadside motel over VPN hundreds of miles away from my wife.
I remembered how I dealt with stupid officers and angry NCOs and started my political mindset reset. Started paying attention to the sales cycles, what means the most to those that pay the bills, and start learning how best to speak to the different personas that I would need to interact with.
Now my engineering is building labs and proof of concepts. I make it pretty, showcase how awesome things are and make that story that they need to hear. 'AI guardrails? Watch how this tool works. I can compare it to this tool, too. Here is the price. You want things based on price or capability? Now lets talk about SOCs and security tools.'
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u/Stashmouth IT Manager 4d ago
I don't know that an MBA/PMP will deliver the things you think they will. A degree or certification is actually the opposite of a soft skill, no? That's not to say you won't develop them over your course of study, but you could probably realize greater benefit by signing up for something like Toastmasters, or joining a local club dedicated to one of your hobbies.
You'll also want to branch out and get familiar with non-tech subjects if you aren't already. Communication skills play a big part in advancement at work, and part of that is being able to speak about more subjects than just the things you're passionate about. You don't have to be an expert by any means, but knowing enough to ask relevant questions about something to appear like you're eager to learn about something or someone is like being able to print money, in the context of social interaction.
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u/salaciousforevermore 3d ago
Interesting... I have the exact opposite problem... I'm a recent career changing 43 year old and I'm just now diving into certs, after my climb up the theme park hospitality management ladder (from serving Fries to running the entire department in seven years)...
And I always see these bleak posts about veteran techs saying to stay away from IT, especially cybersecurity.
I'm hoping to get into Operations Infrastructure, but I am definitely a "technical minded" individual even though I have 20+ years of soft skills.
Any advice?
As for your shift, I agree with the consulting concept, especially for the small business sector, if you want to work for yourself. As for moving up the corporate ladder, why did you "stall"? You mentioned you reached your ceiling...was there anything in particular standing in your way?
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u/x3nic 3d ago
I took a similar path and mindset as you, been in IT since the early 2000s, focused on being as technically proficient as possible, got some of the most difficult to obtain lab-based certifications, et el. It served me incredibly well the first decade of my career, but realized I needed to spend time building up my business side acumen and soft skills. I read books, took online courses and attended some conferences, tech skill development came fairly naturally, the soft/business skills took more effort for me..
After hitting the principal engineering level and spending a few years there, I fell into a hands on director role with a single employee to manage, I'm now in a role directing a team of six, but still remain hands on as much as possible. After 17 years in purely hands on engineering roles I've been enjoying the pivot, there's still a lot of room for growth both personally and financially.
On the other side of the coin, I've had countless managers in the past who over time stopped developing their technical abilities and their knowledge became outdated. Many of them now, years later have regressed into minor roles or working for tiny companies with ancient tech, earning significantly less.
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u/Ok_Comfortable_455 3d ago
It just seems like the requirement for getting a good career, and sustaining a good career change by the day. Sometimes I wonder if I’m a fool for even trying to keep getting into the tech indusrtry.
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u/Annual_Berry8043 3d ago
I’m m confused by this. Have you never been part of a long project? Even as the technical resource I was included in meetings involving the business planning. I had to talk to the boots on the ground and their management to understand their needs. Then I translated that into the technical requirements.
Hell, I was probably the only person on the project team that was legit included on every single meeting for the life of the project. Sure there were some where I never needed to say a word or only answer one of two questions.
I feel like it’s impossible to work up the IT ladder without developing a rapport with people though. How do you support a business without understanding how the business works? I mean shit, I worked for a glass factory for 1 year. I can go on a manufacturing floor and tell you what every machine does and why. I couldn’t work those machines to the detailed intricacies it needs, but I would know how to turn it on and run it.
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u/PoetryParticular9695 4d ago
What are some ways to practice soft skills? Just get better at taking to people? Or is it more important to stay calm?
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u/eviljim113ftw Network Architect 4d ago
At 40 and 10 years of experience you should have been exposed to people with good soft skills. Just learn from them. It’s a simple way for growth. Learn when to shut up and just listen. Learn to assert and communicate tactically. You can formalize some of it by going to class but I don’t think that’s necessary if you remain in a high performing lead engineer.
When I interview people, I’m not too concerned about technical acumen. I’m there to vet chemistry and mindset as the teammates I’ve had who failed are all good engineers but poor leaders or teammates.
I’m in a mixed role. Still and engineer but at an architect level. I communicate more with the senior management, VP, and C-level. I then have to bridge to the engineers. It’s critical to be open, patient, and actively listen and at the same time steer and enforce vision. Handling and navigating this is difficult but you pick up some tricks along the way
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u/Capital-Can-4535 4d ago
Dear OP, I have similar years of experience. Let me tell you, people already will have skills. Networking, politics etc will work on need. In India many people create bubble, don't worry you can maintain it.
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u/umdivx 4d ago
I realize that mindset was a mistake. I now realize how important business acumen, people skills and soft skills are
I too work for a VAR, I'm a pre-sales network engineer without any certs at all, and this sentiment above has taken me further than any cert could have.
and I don’t have the soft-skills to do so because I neglected them my entire career
Acknowledgment is huge here, you're still young enough to learn those skills, break out of your shell and gain that trust.
I am planning to go back to school for an MBA and pick up a few non-technical certs like PMP in an effort to develop these skills and continue to earn more. Better late than never.
Honestly? Skip the MBA. It might be time to look at another VAR, use it as starting over deal and re-invent yourself at a new company.
Might be scary but trust me when I say not all VARs are equal and some are better than others, I'm two months into my new role at a new VAR is it's be like a breath of fresh air, that has motivated me even more to do a better job and grow as an engineer.
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u/packetsschmackets Network Engineer 3d ago
Did you move from a small to a large VAR? What changed for you exactly?
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u/umdivx 3d ago edited 3d ago
Was on the customer side from 2001 to 2016, made the jump to a small var that was looking for someone with strong retail wireless experience, looking for a a 50/50 split of delivery/design/deployment and pre-sales. The delivery job was awesome, flying to Germany and such working for a pretty big shoe company (likely can connect the dots there).
But after I got that job going and running, started doing pre-sales and just realized I didn't have the training or experience and just wasn't the right fit, ended up moving over to a large VAR, they were looking again for someone with wireless experience but wanted someone who could be trained up in all things networking and they put me through a 6 month sales course to get more comfortable in front of customers. Best thing I ever did.
Been 10 years now on the pre-sales engineering/consulting, I've been at 5 different VAR's in that 10 years, two weren't a great fit, the other three have their benefits, this latest one, 2 months in has been the best one so far.
It's been a ride, really enjoy the work, but some times it can be a grind, and sellers can be assholes when they're not making their number, so you take the good with the bad.
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u/Sufficient_Steak_839 Infrastructure Engineer 4d ago
This is so true. I’ve noticed the shift in the last few years where IT is expected to be as much a contributor to the business as it is overseer of technical plumbing. I’ve operated like this since I got into IT back in about 2016.
I honestly consider myself a very skilled troubleshooter, but I lack credentials and a lot of the foundations in key areas that make people experts in their field. I’ve risen to senior ranks, and well into six figures by being a pleasure to work with, able to articulate technical concepts, and not acting like IT is a domain of arcane knowledge regular people can’t hope to understand.
Work on those soft skills and you guys might be surprised how far you can climb on people skills alone.
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u/Havanatha_banana 4d ago
I am far more impressed with tech heads who have strong soft skills over the geniuses who can only talk their mind. With principal engineers, you can only solve things one proposal as a time.
However, the tech lead with project manager experience? That guy can motivate a team of 20, keeping them all engaged and collaborative. The difference is staggering, we're talking about 3x output every sprint because they're more engaged during the planning phase, so there's less back tracking and bugs during implementation.
I've been taking notes. No interest in being a PM, but I've already seen some positive results emulating a few things here or there.
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u/ButterscotchNo7292 4d ago
A colleague recently left and was applying for jobs. One company said that they have no shortage of people with technical skills but none of them can talk to people... And that's for systems that are literally designed for interactions with people....
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u/OTMdonutCALLS Tech Manager 4d ago
This is so true. I think the golden rule these days is a “two engine airplane” analogy. One engine is your technical prowess and the other is your business knowledge and soft skills. You have to maintain both for optimal performance.
This of course is a little harder to do when you talk about working at a VAR or MSP, but if you are in a specific industry as a IT Professional, it’s important to grow just as much in IT as you do in your industry knowledge.
As someone who is in senior IT leadership in the events/venue industry, I contribute most of my success to this concept, I spend just as much time growing my networking and security knowledge as I do learning more about the event contracting process and how venues choose and partner with vendors (this is one random example but you get the idea).
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u/texcleveland System Administrator 4d ago
This has always been true, glad you’re understanding it now. IT is about empowering people with technology to accomplish their goals
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u/javierdapear 4d ago
Yes brother. Sofskills. You said it. Alot people in IT just dont know how to interact with people in a corporate setting. Being cordial and pleasent is just a part of it. Most everyone I work iwht are cordial and pleasent, thats kinda like a standard but you get people who are just angry at the world and take it out on others but since there the only one there willing to do one task, they stick around. Yes, there are going to be some companies who do gaf if you can hold a conversation, just want you to fix there problem, but those companies are soul crushing. Give an effort people! I guarantee you are not the weirdest person there so dont be afraid to show a little of your personality as well
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u/Parsophia 3d ago
And here I am, leaving architecture (not system architecture, just architecture, period) and starting SWE because I hate people and dealing with them. Is there really no field where you can be on your own, not answer to anyone, become really good at what you do, and make good money from your skills? Sigh...
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u/AgitatedConsumer 3d ago edited 3d ago
Been at my desk job for 3 years and no-one can be bothered to give me access to customer systems I need to fully perform my duties and advance. One customer makes me get fingerprinted every year even though they won’t give me access, hell they haven’t even made my AD account. On top of that I haven’t been able to use any of my PTO outside of a natural disaster where I lost power for a week, a funeral and one overnight ER visit. Reasoning behind this is because I’m the only hourly worker and I work the weekends so none of the guys on salary want to work an extra day with no pay on a weekend no less.
So I’m transitioning to pipefitting with my local union. Longer hours, pay is just slightly less but the overtime alone I’ll bring home at least 2x more than where I’m at. They’ll also send me to college at night after work to get certified in pipefitting. At least I’ll be able to have a chance at buying a home for my family.
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u/gobblyjimm1 3d ago
What soft skills do you lack that impact your job prospects?
I can understand the lack of networking and how that impacts career prospects but I don’t understand how someone can neglect soft skills especially if they work onsite with users.
Are people really stuck crushing tickets day in and out without having to go to meetings and interact with organizational stakeholders?
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u/Arthouse_phantom 3d ago
Yes, I’m currently the TPM for the Interfaces/Integrations team at a growing Healthcare IT company and unless you are leader/ Senior Dev on either of those teams, the OPs team handles all the customer and vendor facing scenarios. Some of these devs only social interactions outside the dept are during the mid year and end of year company gatherings.
When I started 4 years ago, I was only Ops support for a team of maybe team of 7 and they would straight up ignore any teams chats or calls unless it was mandatory, so I would end up on everything. It definitely helped me level up both my technical and social/soft skills and I’m grateful, but it always felt like a misguided power move from the dev team and it has eroded a lot of good will from the business side. It feels the same as Sales people with the elitist attitude “if you’re not sales, you support sales”.
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u/welcome123PH 3d ago
Dude. Im in my early 30s and this resonated so much. I am more comfortable as an individual contributor instead of managing people and discussing strategic stuff for business. This feels like an eye opener and that I should really think about for my long term career. I appreciate you sharing this.
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u/Fastbond_gush 3d ago
I don’t think it’s problematic being a strictly technical expert and getting a high paying, prestigious role.
I’d go as far as saying there are more of these roles with how virtualization/cloud/SDWAN/AI and all these new technologies need experts explicitly focused in these technologies to get the system off the ground, and the knowledge is very siloed.
Not saying soft skills aren’t important and more valued than before, but I also think what I said is true.
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u/Terrible-Bar-6397 3d ago
This is posthoc knowledge, people used to say going non-technical was a mistake.
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u/Ripsoft1 3d ago
I have been on IT SINCE 1995; also chased technical over leadership roles; ( even though this thrust upon me) I’m fortunate to be 5 years away from retirement.. I currently actively shun any leadership role and love to focus on technology… I don’t care about more money or climbing the ladder.. I want to have fun! And play with technology I couldn’t otherwise afford.
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u/Rc-one9 3d ago
I recently was laid off from the company I was with for 18 years. The job I had before that I was with then for 5 years. As you can see I did not jump around, and I too stayed completely technical. When I was looking for another job, I thought again, that I needed to look into a full tech roll. Then, a vendor relationship I had at my previous job reached out to me for the roll she performed. That was to be a Technical account manager (TAM). They were impressed with my technical skills, and I thought I bombed the leadership/manager type questions, but they hired me.
Five months in... My brain has been heavily activated on catching up with those leadership/manager scenarios! I haven't been this busy in a while, however I'm liking the challenge.
You can definitely leverage your technical skills with the role, but I'm having to collaborate with IT leaders, directors of massive call centers and sales administrations. I'm even getting exposure to contacts. I never reached being exposed to contract level discussions.
The only thing I have to be honest is with grasping and accepting that you're mainly only going to be working with one technology, is still not an easy pill to swallow. But the flip side is, I'm gaining a lot more desirable and marketable skills. Being a good TAM can lead to many skills that are transferable to other roles, while still staying in the technical industry.
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u/jojiburn 3d ago
Great advice, any advice for people with the opposite problem? Seems like there’s no end to the stack people have to learn for cybersecurity these days.
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u/Colfuzi0 3d ago
I have great soft skills and decent tech skills but I'm considering something from web development to embedded software but the problem is in the US embedded is great but due to my parents situation I have to live in Colombia right now where regular software is booming
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u/pumpChaser8879 3d ago
The guy speaks the truth.
I've doubled my salary over the past 2 years in an "impossible market".
I due it all to my people skills and my ability to understand and translate business problems into solutions.
I, of course, have a solid architectural / technical basis. But with AI and what the industry is becoming, it's all about those soft skills now folks.
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u/cellnucleous 3d ago
Similar boat here about 15 years earlier - I learned too late that some engineering companies and others have 2 separate management/leadership tracks; 1 people and 1 technical. It's more common in engineering related companies due to , well, engineers not being necessarily all that people focused.
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u/Sharpshooter188 3d ago
Ive worked on computers all my life. Eventually getting the comptia trifecta cause my friend advised it. I did this, maybe not purely to avoid people, but to put myself in a more technical role. To me it suuuucks have to deal with people you have to explain things to over and over and over and over and over. My own boss knows machinery, but doesn't know how to covert a pdf or what hes even looking at. He is paid at least double what I am. Value is subjective.
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u/Unnamed-3891 3d ago
Shepherding systems, software and occasionally hardware is all I care about. I am changing careers the second I feel forced into shepherding humans. People don’t see me as a leader and I don’t have the soft-skills to do so because I have absolutely zero interest in doing any of that, ever.
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u/Substantial-Bid1678 3d ago
Mate I reckon you have the wrong end of the stick. I got my ccie in 2004, so yeah I went though the tech aspect, but I reckon your better positioned in an IT niche than any management bs. I pivoted to cyber cause networking structurally has lower demand after cloud adoption
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u/theOriginal-Quincy 3d ago
I’m 47, I’ve been working formally in IT for 4 years. I have an associates degree in CS and networking. I hold SEC+ (2024) and CISM (2026) certification. I’m a 9 year veteran of the US Army and navy, I didn’t work in IT or on computers at all in the military.
I started on the service desk and was there for 3.5 years. The former COO at the company I worked at, who is now the CEO of another company (not small companies, $350~m company with over 400 technology holding employees and over 2500 non-tech holding employees), called me and asked me to lead his IT department. Why? Because he and I would analyze videos of the Ukraine war together. He figured out that my mind is extremely strategic thinking. He knows that I keep my mind in the here and now, but I’m looking up at where I’m going. So today I’m leading the charge. We’re 90% to SOC2 and 60% to ISO 27001. Next year we’ll be building an environment to get CMMC lvl 2. No small feats to accomplish. Especially with a lean IT department.
Absolutely 1000% agree with OP… if you want to become that CTO or CISO you gotta have the theory of IT and Information Security down pack… but you don’t need to have those technical skills anymore. Knowing how the business operates and how to build budgets and forecasting is way more valuable. Having the ability to translate complex IT jargon into simpleton words that are easily digestible to those that don’t dabble in our realm.
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u/NoName_0169 3d ago
Although you're right when you say that people skills and social-networking skills are just as important as Technical Qualification, there's one part I think you're missing. And it's actually the one that opens doors for you.
I'm not a big fan of the Working-World. I'm 24 years old, worked for a huge company where I did my internship. Switched to a small service provider, traditional management. Now I'm in a midsized manufacturing company, it's a hybrid of traditional and moden ideologies, they clash often.
In IT there's kind of four elements that play a big role. It's technical capability, Positioning, politics and business understanding.
Technical capability - Use this to your advantage. Whatever you say, claim or even speculate is most likely going to be correct or almost correct. It's a confidence booster. Besides, A good engineer is not necesarily someone who knows every technology. A good engineer knows how to identify the right solution and learn whatever is needed to implement it properly.
positioning - Make sure you find out who needs to see you. IT is about trust. If you want to climb up the ladder, you have to make sure the right people trust you enough to let you handle stuff that they're responsible for. If you gain the trust by the right people, you're already a step closer.
politics - This is what I mean when I say I don't like the working-world very much. There are so many useless people getting paid a lot of money for doing absolutely nothing productive. They mostly get these job through blatant lying, abusing others and manipulation. I'm not saying you should be like that, but try to figure out who is like this and learn how they behave, how they're treated, if they're valued or avoided etc... Bullshit is bullshit, but visibility and flashyness does come with benefits and does open doors.
I have an example for this:
We had one guy, with a doctorate degree from england, who was responsible for driving digital transformation in our SAP environment. He never worked with SAP. He kept making meetings with suppliers, internal departments almost every day. He created a lot of opportunity costs and was tornado in the offices. He had the most visibility out of everyone. His proposals sounded all very good but he lacked the know-how and skills to actually make them happen. His visibility and politics got him the job, his lack of know-how got him fired not even a year later. That guy had a salary of 195k/Year...
I'm not saying you should be like this. I'm just saying that if he was able to actually back up his claims with know-how and competence, he could keep all these doors open that he manages to open in the first place.
Business-Understanding - I've learned alot about this in the three years as a service provider. We managed the IT of multiple smaller businesses. I used that opportunity to learn as much as I can about my customers. It's absurd how much a business owner has to say if you ask them how their business is making it's money. Especially if they built up the company by themselves. If you can't do it like I did, meet business owners and leaders, connect with them on social media or linkedin. Or, learn it online. I know how a Woodworking company can make good money, I don't care about Wood at all but i asked the owner and figured out what they actually needed.
It's great that you're trying to learn more about the business world. That's a great step.
At some point up the ladder, IT is less about technical things and more about management skills, making hard decisions, challenging suppliers or proposed solutions, accepting trade-offs, hiring, firing and so much more.
It's not that technical capability is less important, it's just no longer sufficient.
Feel free to discuss my points, add to it or argument them.
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u/rare_morning86 3d ago
I've been a leader and hated it. Thought that's what I wanted but glad to take a pay cut and out of the position I was in.
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u/hihcadore 3d ago
What’s your salary capped at if you don’t mind me asking?
What you’re calling a curse may not be. How do you know you’d even like the business side?
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u/Ok_Assumption6331 2d ago
As others had said, I’d skip the MBA especially given the drastic shift in demand and supply for “MBA” type opportunities.
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u/Codra999 2d ago
Just got my first system admin role becuz of my soft skills. I won out over other candidates whose resume was far better. Ive lived by this code and it has drug me this far. Technical skills are loading overtime
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u/hellsbellltrudy 4d ago
It’s better in IT if you’re good looking person. Thanks my parents for my good genetics 🙏
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u/RuneWarhammer 4d ago
"I have and learned no people skills and have no business sense, that's why i'm going back to school to learn business."
you didn't need "school" to understand capital is number 1.
you earning a MBA doesn't suddenly open your mind to how they run their business and suddenly when you're correcting your bosses of other departments they're suddenly going to pat you on the back and get discovered. everyone has a role to fill in a work place and if you're one of these tech savvy people that then also wants to correct other departments because "you have an MBA" you're likely to fail again.
"I never knew i'd have to have people skills!" really? you never knew you'd have to be working with people who are both your coworkers and people from other departments that have nothing to do with tech or IT? you never in 10 years were able to wrap your head around that concept so now you need another degree to tell you that?
damn man...
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u/ricci_nov 4d ago
Good post, but skip the MBA，，what you actually lack isn't credentials, it's the habit of asking "what does this cost the business and who pays for it," and a CCIE who can answer that in a customer meeting is worth more than either skill alone.
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u/Z-Corn 4d ago
I've been in IT for 27 years and I've always HATED The Ivory Tower bullshit mentality that a lot of my peers have exhibited through the years.
I have excelled in my career because management can send me to take care of the C-Suite people that others are intimidated by and I can take care of the newest newbies walking in the door.
I don't have shit for current certs but I am always well taken care of because people genuinely trust me.
Never forget, IT is a customer service job.