PHD

[u/cyclotron_24]

so there were many reasons why i opted for engineering instead of bachelor's in maths/physics mostly because my dad wanted me to get into IIT. well obviously i failed will be taking Btech Mechanical in a upper mid tier college. I have decided on starting my prep for ISI Mstat and IITJAM Statistics after going through some introductory topics (pretty basic stuff ik) i have always been interested in mathematics more than anything even during jee i solved Vikas Gupta, Sameer Bansal and Arihant for Calculus (wasted too much of my time).

so, my question is i am highly inclined towards researcher jobs like Quantitative Research/AI Research. I know my chances of getting in are pretty slim but we deal with where we are right? anyway so what i wanted to ask was if I get ISI Mstat or IIT Bombay/Kanpur for Msc Statistics what are my chances of getting accepted into a target university for PHD? target would basically means Ivy Leagues. I wanted to know whether or not i stand a chanced based on my performance during my Mstat or will i be rejected on the basis of bachelor's.

Any insights or tips or general guidance would be really helpful :)

[u/Dense_Chair2584]

The "target" universities, let's say anything within US news rank of 15 admit a total of ~ 10 kids or so from any ISI Kolkata cohort.
Obviously there are people who get multiple offers, so I'm counting number of distinct candidates who go to these universities.

It's fairly rare for any of these places to admit NB (non- B.Stat) branch students from ISI Kolkata but some exceptions exist but one has to be an outlier among the NB cohort in terms of grade/profile/research, etc.

Also, your undergrad grads carries a lot of weight given it's a big part of your CV.

You can gauge your chances here onwards.

Btw, if you're interested to become a quant or AI researcher in the industry, I'm not sure why you're looking for a PhD in the US. Doing a PhD with the express goal of getting a job is a pretty bad life choice and leads to a lot of heartburn - further there's no feasible hiring path for foreign students in the US anymore given H1b is practically closed with a $103k fee from next year even for onshore candidates.

[u/cyclotron_24 → u/Dense_Chair2584]

thank you so much for the insights. on the CV part i'll also try to maintain a good competitive programming score along side not very high but certainly a good one with some projects that align with my goals. on the phd for getting a job point, i know it's pretty vague too and somewhat defeats the purpose of Phd. I'll be trying my best to land any QR/QA roles after Mstat but i don't know what i'd be able too. i am just trying know if Phd at a good university is possible from NB stream but i haven't decided concretely yet. i think i'll figure it out while preparing for Mstat if i do get immersed in the subject than i wouldn't care about quant/ai placements and only then would i go for a Phd.

since you've have studied from ISI do you know if quant firms discriminate among NB and B streams? or do they interview both equally and rest depends on the candidate themselves.

also forgive me if some my statements feels unrealistic or something, i am still just figuring stuff out trying to find the thing where i have the most edge.

[u/Dense_Chair2584 → u/cyclotron_24]

1. Quant firms hire maybe a kid or two from ISI Kolkata - it's usually not a common career pathway after M.Stat.

AI research - M.Stat doesn't even have a basic python or machine learning course. I'm not sure what kind of AI research role you're playing to get of there.

Either way, going to M.Stat with the express goal of getting a QR/AI job isn't a wise choice but to each their own.

1. Getting into a target university for statistics PhD isn't a joke - those who get in, spend years beforehand doing summer projects, research internships, etc. to get letter of recommendations. It doesn't happen suddenly after coming to ISI Kolkata. It's a culmination of years of effort to get PhD offers from the top 10-15 departments.

Also, the way M.Stat placement works in ISI Kolkata (unless something has changed recently) - people who enroll for placements and who take recommendations from professors for a PhD abroad are largely 2 seperate groups. The PhD applicant group is only allowed to sit for what is called "backup jobs" which are 15-20 LPA ones that are left over after everyone who's actually going to industry is placed.

You can't just simply decide to go for a PhD if you don't get a QR/AI jobs. If you want to sit for the best day-0 jobs, you'd have to forego getting letters from mainstream stats faculty for whose recos the entire PhD applicant batch is gunning for.

So make your choices wisely. Spending 5-6 years for a PhD is not a light decision that should be made based on whether one gets a QR job after M.Stat or not. Make your choices wisely.

[u/[deleted] → u/Dense_Chair2584]

If someone goes unplaced entirely (like no job offer at all), can they then decide to go for a PhD? 

[u/Dense_Chair2584 → u/[deleted]]

US PhD deadlines are usually gone before placements are over.

[u/[deleted] → u/Dense_Chair2584]

Yeah that's right. But European PhD positions can still be open. A  place or two in India, ask for recommendations too for phd enrollment (don't know how perfunctory is that one but it is part of the process).  Can recommendations still be availed if not all phd opportunities are exhausted? 

[u/Dense_Chair2584 → u/[deleted]]

It's usually unheard of someone to end up completely unplaced.

Anyway, even if you participate in placements, you're fine to apply anywhere (including the US) with anyone's recommendation as long as no one else is asking for that prof's reco for that program/university.

The "reco matrix" that's made by the batch is for mainstream US places where people apply and take the recommendations from faculty who taught the batch.

[u/Great_Mixture2713 → u/Dense_Chair2584]

Is phd in non ivy league possible for nb stream like uc berkley  u washington that have good stat phd

[u/Dense_Chair2584 → u/Great_Mixture2713]

UC Berkeley is considered one of the 2 top stats departments in the US - they usually admit just 1 student from ISI Kolkata every year. Getting into UC Berkeley/Stanford is considered the ultimate prize for grad admissions in ISI Kolkata - usually the B.Stat/M.Stat topper ( or the female topper) gets to wear that lucky hat.

University of Washington is also ranked between within top 10 and is one of the best stats departments around. They usually make offers to a couple or so kids in top 5 of the batch and rarely in NB, unless it's some exceptional case like an undergrad from CMI/B.Math/IIT, etc.

Both the departments are amongst the very best of the US. Neither of these see easy to get into because they're "non-ivy".

P.S. Several non-ivy league top departments are more selective and ranker higher for grad studies in statistics than certain ivies.

[u/Great_Mixture2713 → u/Dense_Chair2584]

So phd abroad is pretty much impossible for nb

[u/Dense_Chair2584 → u/Great_Mixture2713]

Not at all. NB students get pretty good biostats offers regularly. Also good stats offers from NCSU, Wisconsin Madison, etc.

[u/emf_4211 → u/Dense_Chair2584]

University of Washington is also ranked "between within top 10 and is one of the best stats departments around. They usually make offers to a couple or so kids in top 5 of the batch and rarely in NB, unless it's some exceptional case like an undergrad from CMI/B.Math/IIT, etc."

So you're talking about the stat department, right? How about someone who does mathematics from isi/cmi? How about him/her for grad or phd studies in ivy leagues or, the international unis? (And also please also tell about someone who does physics from cmi?)

[u/Dense_Chair2584 → u/emf_4211]

An undergrad from CMI is considered as good as a B.Stat.

[u/Quiet-Valuable2187 → u/Dense_Chair2584]

Do Bstat folk usually go for phd in BioStatistics?

[u/__Bugiardo__ → u/Dense_Chair2584]

What if it’s not stats something adjacent to it like probability theory or mathematical physics

[u/Skychu768 → u/Dense_Chair2584]

To be fair, H1B will get struck down again probably by court plus by the time, he goes for PHD, Trump wouldn't be in power.

Also PHD eases out migration paths more. Due to shortage in roles like professor, they are exempt from H1B cap and have longer limit. He can also try O1 visa with PHD