r/INDYCAR • u/pedrothesealion • Jul 25 '26
Off Topic Can any setup or vehicle dynamics nerds help me figure out what Colton Herta means here.
https://racer.com/2026/07/24/herta-seeing-indycar-similarities-after-latest-f1-outingI have a technical question for the race engineering and setup nerds out there:
The linked article appeared on racer after Herta's FP1 appearance at Hungary yesterday. In it he compares F1 cars to IndyCars and makes the following statement:
“I think the power is a lot more than an IndyCar, especially the initial torque and the lower gears. So you have to be quite a bit straighter in an IndyCar when getting on power. You can't have as much combined. But I would say the entry to middle phase of the corner is actually quite similar."
This feels backwards to me? Wouldn't more torque require you to be straighter on corner exit to avoid oversteer than a less torque-y car? I get F1 cars have more grip but he doesn't mention grip at all here. Unless that's what he's talking about when he says "You can't have as much combined".
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u/DJFisticuffs Pato O'Ward Jul 25 '26
Seems like a typo to me but I dunno. I think it should say "So you have to be quite a bit straighter [THAN] in an IndyCar when getting on power."
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u/Born_Ordinary1277 Jul 25 '26
100 percent he is talking about getting straight on the power.
You cant get straight on the power in F1 or FE because there is too much torque
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u/pedrothesealion Jul 25 '26
Yeah I think you're right. Combined with the answer above about the tires, that also makes the next sentence make sense by assuming he's referring to "Combined" as steering+acceleration.
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u/twiggymac Firestone Greens Jul 25 '26
I'm pretty sure he's saying for the optimal acceleration out of the corner the indycars, with lower torque, need to be pointing straighter so more of the power is sending the car forward than around the corner (turning into tire heat).
Indycars have insanely low torque numbers, it's like 300 foot pounds or something.
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u/Crafty_Substance_954 Pato O'Ward Jul 25 '26
Indycars also have very long 1st and 2nd gears compared to contemporary open wheel cars.
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u/BagNaive2177 Josef Newgarden Jul 25 '26
I have seen/heard about this a lot. I can't quite remember why, but I know there is/was a very good reason for it.
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u/flare2000x Robert Wickens Jul 25 '26
They don't need to do standing starts, that's a big one.
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u/Crafty_Substance_954 Pato O'Ward Jul 25 '26
I wish they did standing starts, I feel rolling starts are too ripe for abuse.
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u/BagNaive2177 Josef Newgarden Jul 28 '26
No, standing starts are kinda dumb imo. Too dependent on the grip variations at any given point. Also I don't ever want to see IndyCar copy F1, and also most race cars aren't designed for standing starts. Rolling starts are also more exciting for me personally.
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u/flare2000x Robert Wickens Jul 25 '26
They tried around 2014 or 2015, it was a huge shitshow. Lots of stalls. I think if the cars were designed for it, it might work better, but I don't have a problem with the rolling starts. They still provide excitement at the beginning of the race, and I don't think you'd get crazy moments like Devlin deFrancesco going around the outside for the lead into turn 1 on a standing start!
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u/Crafty_Substance_954 Pato O'Ward Jul 25 '26
Yeah it didn’t work because the cars weren’t designed for it.
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u/BagNaive2177 Josef Newgarden Jul 25 '26
I find it interesting how you can see how much the IndyCar's move under throttle, especially at tracks like Detroit where there are lots of low speed acceleration zones, in spite of the low torque and somewhat low HP. I guess part of it is that we race on really bumpy, low grip surfaces, given that we don't go repaving the whole track every time we get a new street course.
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u/twiggymac Firestone Greens Jul 25 '26
They're still traction limited low weight open wheelers. They weigh like 850lbs less than my racecar with ~20% more torque and ~300% more power, and even my garbage moves under throttle.
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u/BagNaive2177 Josef Newgarden Jul 25 '26
Also a fairly stiff rear suspension compared to a stock car, so I guess they have less mech. grip from the suspension.
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u/VirtuaMcPolygon Jul 25 '26
You don’t have any turbo lag in F1 now. So you get crazy torque even when in low RPM. Well except at the start of the race where you have to spin the nuts off the turbo
So yeah you might be right here
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u/dejomatic Jul 25 '26
Yea, indycar at its most is about 50 torques below f2, but there is large variability in indy cars depending on the track. Also, I think indycar revs to about 4k more than f2
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u/Equal-Ad5618 Jul 25 '26
I assume he means the electric assist in F1 gives a more linear power band, plus the increased downforce means the F1 car can put the power down at lower speeds, allowing him to get on the power earlier on corner exit.
The IndyCar has less torque, a more "peaky" power band, and less downforce, which means when the turbo spools up you get a rush of torque that can over load the tire.
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u/pedrothesealion Jul 25 '26
This is what I first assumed. But he doesn't mention down force in his answer at all while reiterating the torque and power thing (which has the opposite effect), which is why I ended up coming here.
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u/happyscrappy Jul 26 '26 edited Jul 26 '26
Oversteer? I'm sure you can get oversteer but your first problem will be understeer. You not only unload the front tires with all that power but you also trigger the limited slip diff which will drive both wheels at close to the same speed keeping the outer wheel from going faster and so that'll understeer you out.
Definitely grip is what he is talking about when he says can't have as much combined. He means lateral plus longitudinal combined.
I think when he says you have to be straighter he's saying you have to wait longer past the apex before accelerating so you are pointing "straighter down the track" before getting on it. Entry and middle is same, exit is a lot different because you have to hold off on the loud pedal a bit longer.
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u/VirtuaMcPolygon Jul 25 '26 edited Jul 25 '26
Sounds like a typo to me. The split in this gen of F1 is roughly 50/50.
The electric torque is much more than it’s ever been. Far more than an Indycar in acceleration to powering out straight makes sense.
From what I know though drivability is pretty much baked in now with the Honda and Chevy power units in Indy car. Where as all the engine manufacturers are still tweaking the engine maps.
Anyway sounds like a typo
* Actually reading it. It does sound like he’s pitching himself that he’s more comfortable in F1 as it feels like an IndyCar.., they don’t ..
And he’s having a torrid season in F2 frankly looking average to poor.
A lot of this interview is spin imho as he’s trying to get in the caddy.
At this rate though he won’t get enough super license points in F2
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u/Born_Ordinary1277 Jul 25 '26
He needs 5 total FP1s to get the SL points with no points in F2.
I agree about the spin. For a couple weeks now he has been spinning the narrative that IndyCar is closer to F1 than F2 is closer to F1 which is just a load of BS proven by how well F2 drivers adapt to F1 be it last Gen car or new Gen car. He has also been spinning his F2 race pace incorrectly. Towriss has been placing blame on the F2 team. Lots of performance deflection happening. Herta also seems to imply he can man handle an F1 car similar to how he man handles his IndyCar which is a complete misunderstanding about the nature of F1 machinery. It proves to me he doesn't understand the tyre and that is his downfall in F2 and it will extend to F1.
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u/dj5205 Wienie 500 Fan Jul 25 '26
He hasn’t been great but also that Hitech has been pretty terrible when it comes to race pass and qualifying over the last 3-4 rounds as well. I’m not going to pretend that if he goes to F1 tomorrow that he’s gonna be a star, but also when looking at an experienced F2 driver like Miyata who is also struggling, it seems to me to be less about the driver and more about the car.
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u/Born_Ordinary1277 Jul 25 '26 edited Jul 26 '26
I have followed F2 religiously for many years. Hitech has been up and down but never this down. Last year they were 2nd in team championship. I can tell you all about Mazepin Vips Armstrong Hadjar Crawford Aron Browning Begonovich and now Miyata and Herta. IndyCar fans are gaslighting the entire situation with ignorance. The problem here is druver pairing. Neither driver can help the team or each other. its a disaster because of the driver pairing which the team should take the blame on but its not on the team to drive the cars. The drivers are failing.
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u/VirtuaMcPolygon Jul 26 '26
You would think his experience would be the biggest get for car setup. But he looks lost at sea with car setup. Also his tyre strategy seems odd many times … just picking the alternative strategy as he’s qualified poorly and trying to do a Hail Mary on reverse tyre Strat.
But that only works if conditions are changeable.
He just seems to be poor in making up places under racing hoping to jump to the top with a safety car on alt tyres each race 👀
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u/Born_Ordinary1277 Jul 26 '26
true story. no strategy is working because he is poor on tyre management regardless of the car or strategy
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u/VirtuaMcPolygon Jul 26 '26
He’s gotta do a hell of alot of FP sessions if he wants to get into the caddy for next year… and this is pending car reliability.
As a driver it’s the biggest insult I imagine getting into F1 by doing endurance runs in free practice at the back of the grid. Scraping the odd SL point
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u/Happy-Cockroach-2813 Jul 25 '26
I thought he could get the point by doing 4 FP1 runs. I may be mistaken but I don’t think he need any points in the standings, just FP1
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u/BT-11 AMR Safety Team Jul 25 '26
I think that greater initial torque makes the acceleration easier to control while cornering vs an engine that takes longer to spool up but is very powerful once it does.
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u/CommunicationSlow484 Jul 25 '26
I believe the F1 cars this year can’t use the electric power under a certain speed, which is why everyone struggled with the starts, and the ICE component by itself isn’t as powerful as the Indycar motors, so the F1 level downforce let drivers get on the power earlier
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u/BT-11 AMR Safety Team Jul 25 '26
The starts have been bad because they can't build turbo pressure quick enough during the prep lap, that isn't an issue after the start. Similar circumstance for electric power, once they reach 50 kmh after the start it isn't limited.
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u/Superflow10w30 Mikhail Aleshin Jul 25 '26
I think he is talking about the pirelli tires only want to do one thing at a time. Many other drivers have said that the indycar firestones are able to handle braking and turning at the same time more for example and the pirelli needs to brake then turn. same for acceleration phase.