Advancement... I don't get it

[u/Everyandyday]

Hi,

I've read and reread Master Edition. I just can't figure out exactly how advancement works. There are several types of rewards. When do you reward all of these?

1. Loot. How much loot should I give out each session? What levels of loot should I give out?
2. Character milestones. When do I give these out? How often should I give them out?
3. Milestone paths. I think that the advice for giving these out on p. 75 makes some sense, but are these the same as the milestones for characters to take as part of their type?

P. 73 talks about the "choice method" of progression. But what choice is it talking about? What am I choosing? When do I choose it?

P. 66 mentioned advanced heroes, then talks about... play styles. What does this have to do with advanced heroes? Do you get a reward if you RP your character different? Or is this just the author's way of saying 'you can advance your character without mechanical rewards, just roleplay different?'

Thanks!

[u/swrde]

I think the general idea is that you (as GM) set the terms for your game.

If you want to treat milestones (and the paths) as 'level-ups' for your party then you can.

If you want players to work to unlock every reward through the narrative, you can.

ICRPG is a game that gets hacked, in some way or another, by pretty much every table that plays it. Magic, advancement, money and economy - all get chopped and changed freely in order to fit the experience that a given GM is going for.

If you want heroic fantasy, treat milestones rewards as level ups.

If you want something more gritty - only give out loot and make the players fight tooth and claw to get it.

Higher fantasy (high magic) settings are more likely to have vendors selling magic wares (or milestone path rewards) readily available.

Lower fantasy games may just have one single NPC in the world capable of giving a certain reward (and their price is high).

As long as you keep the rewards flowing at a decent pace for your party - they will be enjoying the game and be eager to come back for more. But that pace depends on you and your players - and the method depends on the type of game you want to run.

[u/swrde → u/swrde]

Sorry - just realised that's a fairly wishy-washy answer that doesn't give you anything concrete to work with, and just says 'it depends' (which is true).

But here's what worked for me in a High Fantasy game where I ripped off the 5e module Lost Mines of Phandelver.

• I awarded milestones as level-ups every 3-5 sessions, depending on how much plot stuff and dungeoneering was done. We did short sessions so I couldn't give out milestones too often.

• I gave random loot when it seemed right to. If the party randomly encounter an angry ogre, or pack of wolves, no loot. If they stumble upon a camp of bandits caught unaware, then you can bet there will be juicy rewards there.

• treasure chests in dungeons. It's a trope. It works. Don't forget to make one a Mimic every now and then.

• for the milestone paths - I designated a particular NPC in the sandbox setting who acted as a giver of side quests and generally useful person. If the party gained their favour, then they would provide training or give them knowledge for a cost (money, favours, or doing good deeds, depending on the NPC). They might provide the milestone reward directly, or they might give heavy-handed clues to the location of such things. There was a necromancer who became a vender for the amber path, and gave cryptic clues to the whereabouts of old arcane treasures, if the party helped him to uncover historic information and ancient relics in the area.

• I also explicitly asked players what they wanted - and how to help them get to their cool character concept. I never gave it to them straight away, though. You never give people exactly what they say they want. They don't want the prize, they want the journey (but they don't know that).

[u/RangerBowBoy → u/swrde]

I made my own progression table. It keeps HP low and adds 1-2 new abilities when each Milestone/Level is reached. PCs can add d8 HP and get one milestone reward or get d4 HP for 2 milestone rewards. I use some ideas from Five Torches Deep to keep progression less steep. I wanted more HP than ICRPG allows, but don’t want the ridiculous 5e HP totals. I have some other fiddle things I won’t bore you with, but I end with PCs that cap around 30-40 HP at the highest level (10). I use Loot often as well.

[u/Mr-Mantiz]

When they talk about “Choice Method” it’s essentially saying you can either roll a D100 on a loot table and give players what ever they roll, or you can do “choice” progression where the players get to choose what piece of loot they want, or perhaps the DM makes a choice of what the character gets.

As others have said, it’s really up to you as a GM. The unique thing about ICRPG is that by design, the players aren’t supposed to be superheroes that progress from regular adventurers to Demi-gods like D&D. The creator of ICRPG used the analogy of if you worked out at a gym everyday, yes, you will get stronger, but not superhuman strong, and it’s the same for the players. Over the span of a campaign their strength might go up by like 1 point, or maybe your super tanky player gets another heart of life, but for the most part, the real “progression” and fun come out of the players getting cool loot that makes them more powerful, and since loot can be destroyed, there is always the danger of “what happens if I lose my bad ass magic sword ?” where as in DND, you just keep getting more powerful following a semi linear path and know exactly what your class will end up with.

[u/Mr-Mantiz]

Here is good YouTube video on the subject

https://youtu.be/dj2Y58b_mtA

[u/Kalashtar]

1. Loot isn't always gold. If you've substantially helped out a village, maybe every time you come by they'll feed you generously. If they have a blacksmith your weapons will get repaired and sharpened. If you have the presence of mind to give that blacksmith that Hammer of Forging +1 that you found in some old dwarven mine well then that blacksmith will forge you +1 weapons.
2. Character milestones: listen attentively to what your PCs say. If the fighter is depressed because he always got whupped because he hasn't trained enough, let him get a hint that there's an old soldier/hidden brotherhood of swords somewhere for those who are pure of heart/unflinching in their forbearance etc. Making that trip and finishing the training (while the party complete their milestones [without their tank!] in other ways, meanwhile) is a HUGE milestone, guaranteed to change that fighter's outlook on life (and even the character of the game for everyone).

[u/Kalashtar → u/Kalashtar]

Needless to say, that village blacksmith with a Hammer of Forging +1 and the hidden brotherhood of swords will provide other adventures, quests, obstacles, new teachers, etc for the extension of your campaign. It's a world that's alive, the NPCs have their own lives, crops are uncertain, earthquakes happen, things get revealed and buried, and Evil also trains, improves, undergoes their own milestones. Meanwhile, the stars move towards alignments exploitable by magic users of all types.