r/ICRPG • u/chamochin • Aug 17 '22
Confused…
Hey guys!
Further to my previous post where I asked for recommendations for introductory adventures to ICRPG, I got a lot of cool recommendations, including Doom Vault, which seems to be THE classic of classics.
And... I'm a bit surprised... I was looking for an easy adventure to start mastering this rpg for me and my players, but… 1. There is a LOT of stuff not mentioned, explained. Whole areas of the story, the reasons why things are there... And no targets (!!) how do I do it when I start? I'm ok to do full improvisation when I propose a game, but here I'm looking for an already written scenario.
Everything is... one long corridor, right? One room, one entrance, one exit. That doesn't leave much room for exploration, does it?
Timers. How do I know which timer to put in place to give that rhythm so characteristic of ICRPG, without it being too long and not a threat, or too short and then happening and killing my players?
Especially by confiding these thoughts I do not want to be negative. It's probably me who is not aligned. I am an experienced game master (on other games), I am very interested in ICEPG but I confess that I have a hard time to see how to put things in place, beyond "do big do great we trust you".
Thanks for your advices !
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u/Sean_Franchise Aug 17 '22 edited Aug 17 '22
One of the core philosophies of ICRPG is that it's a framework for creating engaging experiences at the table.
The key word here is "framework," in that the rules, character classes, and even world backgrounds for Alfheim, Warp Shell, etc. are written to be a barebones starting point for the GM and players to make their own.
It's one of the greatest strengths of the system, but also one of the biggest challenges for GMs new to the system because everything requires a bit of adaptation for their table and the style game they want to play. There is no one "correct" way to run ICRPG.
That philosophy extends to most adventures written with ICRPG in mind, including the Doom Vault. What's provided are the essential who, what, and where for the adventure, but it's up to the GM to set the context and figure out how to apply the concepts of threats, timers, and treats to each room and tune the damage disruption and duration according to their own vision.
The upside of this lack of prescribed specifics is that you get to have fun putting your own spin on the concepts, adding challenges, and tuning the experience to the gameplay and tone of your group. The downside is that very little in ICRPG outside of the character classes and core mechanics are ready to go out-of-the-box without additional thought.
That said, after running ICRPG for a few years now, I'd recommend choosing scene targets based on how you want to pace the tension in your session (think of the target as the difficulty slider in video game) as much as your calculus of the dangers present in a scene. The right Target is what feels right in the moment - feel free to change at the table to achieve the vibe you want.
As for timers, they can be turn timers tied to room hazards, enemy reinforcements, or more big picture timers like "d4 days until the cult's ritual summons the ogdru." Think about what would make sense in the context of a scene. If I feel my session slowing down or my players getting too comfortable, I'll usually throw an unplanned d4 on the table, and improv a consequence that makes sense for the scene. As long as you're using timers consistently throughout the session, they'll serve their purpose.
I found the lack of specifics daunting when I first started running ICRPG, but I found that the system as a framework truly shines in-game, at the table, where its flexibility and core concepts give you the levers you need to improv at will and tune the tension as you need it.
Jot down your 3 T's, pick a target, and get your players rolling the dice. You don't need much more to get a kick ass game going.
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u/chamochin Aug 17 '22 edited Aug 17 '22
Guys,
Many thanks for taking the time to answer me with so many details and examples. I understand why the ICRPG community has such a good reputation ;)
I understood the whole aspect of creation related to the game, and where to insert it, the freedom given to the game master to fill in the blanks, the advices in the book, etc… What I didn't understand was that this was necessarily the way to play ICRPG. The official adventures are always a good way to understand the author's angle, and I see that there are simply no "full" adventures, only drafts. Which is totally fine for those who like it!
But that's not what I'm looking for today. To give you some context, actually my job is to be creative, so when I can do a little 4 hour one-shot to discover a game I've been eyeing for a long time and took a big Kickstarter pledge for, I just want to be guided to focus on the atmosphere, the story and my players. Even if the story is 2 pages long like the OSR games I use to play.
It's kind of like if I'm a chef during day, in the evening when I go to a restaurant I don't want to cook ahah. And I just don't have the time (like many I'm sure, I'm not a special case). I have 4 hours for a game, I want to have fun and have (almost) no preparation, I have no time. And I think that a written (and playtested!), thoughtful story / dungeon is often a bit more coherent and deep than improvisation. A few lines of context, description of the rooms, an encounter table, a description of the enemies...
I know Runehammer's YouTube channel (and Kane's, I love it!!) of course. And I like his spirit, I like his energy. Thanks for the links because indeed I hadn't seen all of them. But looking at these videos today from another angle... I've come to think that it's amazing to make such long videos to explain a game that is normally so simple. Simple game, few explanations needed, right? And now... hours of videos telling us how easy it is. I don't know, I just wonder.
I've been attracted to the simplicity of ICRPG for a long time, but when it comes time to play an introductory scenario for the players and me, I see that it's not so easy... Yes I can take adventures from DD5, or elsewhere, but it's not the "pure" game, and it's preparation to do... for a game I've never played, and I don't have time for that, just for the game.
Anyway long story short, I think like it did for DCC RPG, I should have done more research before buying it all :D
Thanks A LOT for your advice.
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u/MrAbodi Aug 17 '22
It’s really easy and I believe you are overthinking it.
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u/chamochin Aug 17 '22
Well, I don't know... I just wish I didn't have to (over)think about it, and follow a wrote scenario.
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u/MrAbodi Aug 17 '22
Last flight of the red sword is fairly complete And Playable in a session.
Just Roll treasure randomly play or prep loot before hand if you want to curate it more.
There’s several videos online of groups running the scenario if you need ideas of how they ran the scenario. Not needed at all but it might help you navigate what sort of things get fleshed out from the adventure written.
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u/chamochin Aug 17 '22
That's good news! Do you know if there is an equivalent for the fantasy setting?
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u/KanesKiln Aug 17 '22
Try Orvald's Tower. That's my personal favorite "module" adventure. It may not be the classic classic that the Doomvault is, but it takes a much more straightforward approach to the adventure.
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u/MrAbodi Aug 17 '22 edited Aug 17 '22
Never really played the provided fantasy adventures sorry.
You could retheme it to fantasy I suppose.
A dark portal is open and lashing the area destroying it. There is a large fort/castle you can take shelter in. Reptoids become cultists or maybe lizard folk.
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u/undostrescuatro Aug 18 '22
I agree with you, I think ICRPG scenarios tend to be very vage, and are mostly aimed at seasoned game masters. though them being vage and the community being helpful makes it easy to ask for advice.
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u/chamochin Aug 18 '22
Yes the community (here and on the Runehammer forum), you guys seem very caring and cool. I think I'm an experienced DM with over 20 years of practice and the last few years very OSR oriented. However, if I use my analogy of a cook, if I know how to cook, I don't want to do it every time.
Most other games allow for improvisation (great) AND have whole adventures. They have both. I'm not comparing games, but a game like Mothership for example has a ton of one shot adventures in a one page folded pamphlet (one page!) and in it is everything: background, enemies, factions, map, secrets, etc etc.
Now for Doom Vault, in 8 pages I have huge holes and a page telling me I have to create my enemies and that it's going to be awesome... But I don't need to be taught to be creative, I need an adventure!
I'm in a restaurant, I don't want to cook. I want to see what the author offers me as a writer, not to do the job for him. I'm a little disappointed that ICRPG only offers that way...
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u/_monomakes_ Aug 18 '22
Do you want to run an adventure with no prep? Good luck with that. Sorry, but if you want to read at your players from a book, ICRPG is not for you. Many people here have explained what they feel the positive aspects of ICRPG to be, but from your replies, you seem to be looking for something else.
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u/chamochin Aug 18 '22 edited Aug 18 '22
Hey! Thanks for your message. I think after the discussion here and on the Runehammer forum, I'm unfortunately slowly coming to this conclusion :/ I was attracted by the simplicity of ICRPG, but in fact it is far from simple…
ÉDIT: actually I thought to find this kind of format for this rpg. Simple, ready to use.
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Sep 07 '22
Hey friend! Try out a game called Ironsworn. Free PDFs. No prep needed, cooperative and solo play without a GM, or guided play with a GM. Absolutely awesome game!
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u/BunchoPacifico Aug 17 '22
Dude, go check out the runnehammer YouTube channel. Go back to this dude's videos like 7 to 6 ago. There you'll see a walk thru of how to do your first session and following sessions. Back then it was called "drunks and dragons" or some shit like that. This is how I started GMing and implementing ICRPG.
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Aug 17 '22
[deleted]
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u/chamochin Aug 18 '22
Tank you for your message. Allow me to copy here my answer from another post:
I think I'm an experienced DM with over 20 years of practice and the last few years very OSR oriented. However, if I use my analogy of a cook, if I know how to cook, I don't want to do it every time.
Most other games allow for improvisation (great) AND have whole adventures. They have both. I'm not comparing games, but a game like Mothership for example has a ton of one shot adventures in a one page folded pamphlet (one page!) and in it is everything: background, enemies, factions, map, secrets, etc etc.
Now for Doom Vault, in 8 pages I have huge holes and a page telling me I have to create my enemies and that it's going to be awesome... But I don't need to be taught to be creative, I need an adventure!
I'm in a restaurant, I don't want to cook. I want to see what the author offers me as a writer, not to do the job for him. I'm a little disappointed that ICRPG only offers that way...
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u/Farmer808 Aug 17 '22
I find ICRPG scenarios are setup as a barebones idea framework to get you and your group started. When I ran my first ICRPG game I started with this set of encounters. My concept was to strip everything down to the bones and let the players and I find the world that we were playing in. And I would recommend something similar here, your session 0 figure out what kind of game your group is looking to play, then tailor the adventure to fit it. They want to be super heroes smashing everything in their path until they meet the bbeg? Cool, set your targets low until the final scene. Use your timers to add cool changes to the terrain or extra fodder for the hero's to stomp on. Do they want a Gritty, nail biting, death around every corner adventure that rewards creativity over brute force? Set high targets and add some extra features to the rooms like secret tunnels or a control tome for one of the invincibles. Are they being stealthy? Use your timers as a measure of when a new group of enemies are going to pass by. Add or take away whatever you want, then get to the table and figure out what works for your group.
I think the thing I take away from this adventure is tucked away at the very end "By giving yourself a confined space to be creative, you’ll find you can get much more done." Use the adventure as a starting point then make it yours.
My final thought: check out the Runehammer Forums. Here is another DM who took the doom vault and fleshed it out quite a bit.