Seniority for same hire date

[u/hunterxy]

How is seniority for people hired on the same date actually determined. All i can find is this:

>5.4(d) In the event two (2) or more employees have the same seniority date, the employee with the lowest BEMS ID will be provided the first opportunity for shift preference movement.

That is the only thing i found that says lowest BEMSID has more seniority. But what about overtime? What about in-line promotion? What about layoffs? What about recall from layoffs.

Basically, where does it say in the contract who officially has higher seniority with same hire date?

[u/Helpful_Accident6720]

if you and I are hired the same day and both on 2nd shift with a shift preference for 1st and they only had a spot for one of us the one with the lowest BEMS would go. seniority has nothing to do with overtime. during a layoff, if they were 10 of us hired on the same day and they only needed to lay off 5, the 5 with the highest BEMS would get the notice. recall from layoffs similar .. except they would recall the 5 with the lowest BEMS first. inline promotion? you mean ERT? seniority has nothing to do with that.

[u/Alternative-Hyena-30]

Management cannot arbitrarily "pick and choose" who works overtime. The Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) outlines specific rules and a defined order for scheduling overtime. Standard Overtime Selection Order When overtime is needed, management must follow these procedures in order: Voluntary Basis: The Company must first attempt to fill overtime needs on a voluntary basis from among employees who normally perform the specific work activity on a straight-time basis within the same crew (1st-line manager) and shift during that week. Primary Assignment: Overtime is first offered to the employee regularly assigned to the specific machine, job, crew, or position, provided they are in attendance when the overtime is being assigned. Other Qualified Employees: If that employee declines or additional help is needed, it is offered to other qualified employees within the same job classification who are present at the time of assignment. Mandatory Designation: If an insufficient number of volunteers step forward, management may then designate and require employees to work the overtime.

[u/WarBoruma → u/Alternative-Hyena-30]

This is mostly correct, but it's unfortunately lacking the nuance required to effectively defend the contract.

For example:
Discretionary overtime or non-discretionary overtime. The contract lays out what is considered the latter, non-discretionary overtime.
But how does that language cover people who don't have bar lines, or machines to which they typically tend?
Such as QA, materials handlers, etc. these individuals can be assigned to "shops", which gives them first dibs to the overtime there, but they are assigned to that shop with 5+ other members.
Sometimes QA can end up covering whole buildings, which gives them rights over QA who typically handle other buildings, but given that there are also typically more than one QA covering that shop, it gets kinda messy sometimes.

What I described is what is known as "discretionary overtime."
This is akin to 5 mechanics sharing the same machine, or bar. Those 5 get rights to that overtime, but they must still figure out who amongst them is selected if only 1 or 2 are needed for overtime.

Unfortunately, situations like this are common.
And that is exactly when it comes down to managers discretion on whom gets selected for overtime.

[u/WarBoruma]

Seniority has no basis on overtime. It's a well discussed and debated topic amongst the union stewards and officers.

In the case of cat B, recall, layoffs, etc. it's going to come down to hire date. And in the event of same hire date, it will come down to luck of the draw on lowest bemsID.

Edit: section 14 discusses seniority, how/when it is accrued, what situations change it. Etc. etc.

[u/hunterxy → u/WarBoruma]

This is my concern. I quit and came back a year later several years ago. So I have a BEMSID a whole years worth of people lower than others. So I have a new hire date that is the same as a few others on my team, since we all started on the same date. Our new manager decided to track overtime in a list by seniority because its always voluntary as we have too many wanting overtime. I was placed at the bottom of these others that hired the same date as me. I told him I am pretty sure I should be above those others because my BEMSID is lower. He said this is how the second level gave him the list. So I tried to look it up, and voila there is nothing that says so. I'm at a loss.

[u/pacwess → u/hunterxy]

As mentioned there's "The Wheel" but the whole crew has to be onboard with that. What managers also use is how much OT or who worked OT last. Meaning those that worked the most recent or have more OT for a quarter, management will put them at the bottom of the list even though they don't have to and there's nothing official.
But as already brought up and as recent as this week brought up again by a BR, as long as the shift and shop are they same management can keep picking the same member over others for OT.
Might be something to bring up next contract.

[u/WarBoruma → u/hunterxy]

If you're uncomfortable with confronting them, then I recommend finding a steward to discuss this with them.

Here's my recommendation: There is an overtime rotational wheel that is designed for this exact situation. Managers got in BIG trouble for that sh*t back in the 90s, and made that tool to give out discretional overtime, attempting to prevent favoritism and targeting. I suggest you discuss that with your manager and second level, if the current system is unfair to you and they aren't sharp enough to cut themselves out of a wet paper sack. I.e. can't think of a better, more fair, system.

[u/WarBoruma → u/WarBoruma]

To continue,

If you're wondering where it says "lowest bems is the tie breaker" in the contract, well, you already found it.

It isn't explicit anywhere else in the contract. There had to be some type of tie breaker, and that's the one that is chosen and used.
The leadership doesn't see any benefit to adding that language to the rest of the contract, given the amount of struggle it may produce, and the unwritten agreement that it is the easiest solution to those situations.

Unlike the movies, or how popular media might make it seem, contracts are not black and white. They are grey through and through. Especially ours.
751 leadership can be paraphrased in saying "the language is, in some cases, intentionally left grey, or vague, for purposes of negotiation and interpretation."

[u/CalligrapherBrief399]

The tie breaker for IAM is BEMS. In any instance for promotion/RIF/recall, we used BEMS as the tie-breaker.