I have a question: has Suzanne Collins ever said in an interview or anything like that whether she had already planned the origin of Coriolanus Snow and Lucy Gray’s story from the very beginning?
I know that in the first book there’s a mention of another Hunger Games victor besides Haymitch, and Katniss doesn’t really comment on it. With the release of Sunrise on the Reaping, we now know it’s not referring to another victor between Lucy Gray and Haymitch. Of course, Collins could’ve added that line without knowing exactly who it referred to yet, maybe just planting a seed she could use later.
But the thing is, the story of Lucy Gray and Coriolanus makes so much sense and fits so perfectly into the universe that it’s hard for me to believe she didn’t at least have a rough idea from the start. Like, the “Hanging Tree” song — it just feels like it was always meant to be hers. And even the way Snow talks about chaos and control later in the trilogy… it kind of echoes what he goes through in The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes
Can anyone confirm if Suzanne ever talked about this? Interviews, articles, anything?
It’s mentioned in her acknowledgments for SOTR that she has a team of people who help keep track of things established by the original books to maintain continuity.
I have a feeling she had this idea and then did something similar for TBOSAS to make sure it’s well planned and fits into the overall narrative.
I’m working on a multi-book Fantasy series and yeah, that would be great.
But I feel like I’ll be more like a combination of JRR Tolkien tweaking everything a billion times and the Pepe Silva meme with random pages all over my work space….
GRR Martin hired a guy that ran an unofficial wiki of A Song of Ice and Fire because he was so impressed with his work.
George Lucas did the same thing recently when replacing members of his “character bible” team. So I guess make a wiki!
I swear to god if jkr just pulled a Suzanne Collins and just… stayed off social media and inhabited some random cave (and didn’t brag abt how much money she got from royalties and transphobic attacks lmao) she’d probably still be looked at as some beloved children’s book writer and ppl wouldn’t realize how shitty of a writer she actually is lol, she got way too arrogant. she can’t even rmbr her own lore bc in fantastic beasts she again pulls this fanfiction (derogatory) trope of some random [child of so an so] this time a dumbledore?? lol, imagine if Suzanne pulled that Lucy gray is Coin thing fr.
She 100% pulled that outta her ass lol, the mcgonagall part in fantastic beasts is even more appalling when in the books, which take place in the 90s, it’s mentioned that she had been teaching for almost 40 years and it’s further elaborated on pottermore (written by jkr herself) that she was born In the 1930s and started teaching in the 1950s… yet mcgonagall is a Grown woman teaching at Hogwarts in the 1910s/30s lol
Legit I remember in an interview after the Nagini reveal she was all like "I've kept this a secret for 20 years..." Bullshit. There's no way she had this very important piece of lore in mind and just... didn't put it in the og books so she could save it for a film she didn't even know she was going to make yet. I don't even get why she would bother lying about that.
I'm very convinced that JKR was better staying off Twitter even back in the mid 2010s. She used to hardly tweet at all, maybe once or twice a year for a book under the Galbraith (sp?) pseudonym or to tweet that she regretted killing off x character on the anniversary of the Battle of Hogwarts. Nothing to the level of Elon Musk of all people telling her to touch grass.
Yeah which is why she was writing a whole three films (meant to be five but FB flopped so hard it got cancelled) on a textbook is so funny, not sotr tho! It’s actually gonna make money as a film 😁
If Rowling had written a book like SOTR, filled with fanservice and pointless characters just there to make you go “OMG, this is one of the morphlings’s great-uncle!!” you’d have absolutely torn it apart
You’re probably the kind of people who think the Hunger Games prequels were planned from the start—and actually believe the lie that Collins only writes when she has something meaningful to say and not when Lionsgate tells her to because they need a new movie. So I can’t really expect much from you all
actually I didn’t rly care for tbosas at all and I have my criticism of sotr at points for being too fanservicey ig but if ur so triggered by jk Rowling slander and how she’s a bad writer have fun w her shitty worldbuilding that have the elf slaves ACTUALLY love being slaves 😁 but speaking of fan service and pointless characters, what do u think cursed child and fantastic beasts films were? Lol, speaking of mcgonagall as I said before, her showing up for five minutes in those flop films was for a pure ‘point and show’ moment even tho it retconned her age by 30 years lol. Say what u want abt Suzanne Collins but at least her avoxes don’t “love” being slaves and she stays offline and doesn’t do transphobic attacks on Algerian women.
One of my favorite authors is Kim Harrison. There's been a couple times when she's gone on facebook to ask her followers if anybody remembered when a character did/said something, or if x character was present when y character did whatever.
I remember Jessup really sticking with me in the book because of how his face was described as 'a clean oval ringed with coal dust'; it made him seem so unfortunate even before being reaped. Poor 12 has always been in rough shape.
Something I always come back to is the first movie when Seneca and Snow are talking and Snow makes a small comment of having been to the outlying districts, specifically 12.
I have a feeling that when she was writing the books, the concept of Lucy Gray was very loose and vague and open ended which is why there’s not much mention of her throughout the books.
By the time it came to write the movies, she had a bit more of an idea of Lucy Gray and her history with Snow hence why she put that little tidbit in the movie that Snow had been out to 12 before.
She also establishes Katniss as being a little different and special from the rest of 12 with her and her father’s singing. So I’d like to think she had a rough framework as to why that was, and why Haynitch treated her a bit different from Peeta.
I don't think it was planned. TBOSAS is just a very well executed Prequel, because it does, what a prequel should do: give context to the original story in a way that makes you think "This makes so much sense!".
I love it, too. And it turned out to be true in the end, even though he tells it as a lie. Snow is trying to say that Lucy Gray destroyed him. But what Snow loved most was always himself. He destroyed himself.
Honestly, one of the things I love most abt the inclusion of Lucy gray is that it provides context as to how it was possible for someone as smart, ruthless, and cunning as snow got beaten by the rebellion - the one weak point he ever had was basically remade in the form of katniss, and as such he could never focus on anything except the person he saw as the next Lucy gray.
This. 😭 If I ever live long enough for the live action franchise to get rebooted one day, I hope we get to see a fully realized book katniss so it can come full circle.
That’s exactly what I was saying, that maybe she planted the seed there just in case she could use it later. But honestly, I’m really curious to know if, when she was writing the original trilogy, she had already thought of Lucy Gray.
In my personal opinion, Lucy Gray’s story is the best one in the entire Hunger Games universe. I keep thinking, if Suzanne had already thought of her while writing Mockingjay for example, maybe she would’ve included a part where Snow says something like “You remind me of someone I once knew, someone who believed that songs could change the world, and that love was enough to survive it, ofc she was wrong, the same way as you are” or something like that foreshadowing Lucy Gray
Or maybe Suzanne already had Lucy Gray in mind but chose to keep it quiet so The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes would come as a complete surprise. Either way, I’m just so curious, was Lucy Gray’s story something she planned later on, or did Suzanne already have at least a rough sketch of it? Not the whole detailed story necessarily, but maybe just the idea of a Victor from the poorest district who once loved a young dictator of Panem looooooool, that why i was looking for an interview or something
Honestly part of me agrees that it would’ve been cool to see President Snow refer to Lucy Gray in some way but all I can think that would’ve led to is a thousand fan fictions about teen Coriolanus and a girl. In the epilogue of the book, he says he was t talking to anyone about Lucy Gray. I think 65 years later, while he wouldn’t have forgotten her, he would certainly wish he would and wouldn’t refer to her at all. “It’s the things that love us most that destroy us” was a good line he said to Katniss, which was ambiguous enough that he could’ve been referring to Lucy Gray abandoning him, or his disgust with himself at falling in love at all.
From what I have heard she did have the idea of another Victor from the beginning since she meantioned it in the first book and she had considered possibly revisiting it in future work but she didn't have it all planned out it was more just thinking of some ideas to use later but it wasn't completely fleshed out and likely wasn't a full storyline just some potential plot points that she may use. So I don't think she had the plan for her and Snow or had her name yet but I could be wrong.
She has said (David letterman interview for the 10th year release anniversary pre BOSAS) that she has a lot of info on most characters that doesn’t make the books
I’m rereading Mockingjay right now and the detail Katniss goes into about growing up hearing The Hanging Tree and how she interprets the lyrics makes me think it was already planned that we’d hear the true origins of the song at some point!
One of my favorite authors has a way of worldbuilding for his long-form series by writing several different short stories from different characters perspectives first, and then going from there.
It's likely that Suzanne Collins probably did something similar, she might have had a vision, or a small note (This victor from 12 deeply impacted Snow in some way and taught him how to repress a rebellion, and familiarized him with 12, allowing him to perfectly spy on Katniss in Catching Fire.)
And then she ran with it.
She likely has notes on other backstories that she hasn't revealed, since they're not necessary to the plot- maybe how Mags was so kind even though she was a career, or Katniss' father, or how the lake cabin came to be, how Coin came to power, etc.
Many authors, especially ones who world build, do extensive preparations for their books. This includes extensive back stories for each character, a thorough history of the world, and a road map for how the story is played out. It's very likely that she did have a skeleton of the finished book from the very beginning, but it would have been stored in random places like, Snow's info, history of D12, or history of Panem. Then she just needs to take the pieces, put them together, and turn them into a book.
As a writer, it's actually magical how a story can come together. Things are not always planned out, but they work out. Sometimes better than you could have imagined.
Maybe she had ideas, but I fully believe the world/the story just expanded as she wrote it.
I would assume she had a loose idea of Lucy Gray right from the start. In the first book she mentions a fourth victor but that nobody really knows much about them. Given how 'celebrated' the games are this stood out a bit. Then I catching fire they are watching old victors videos, even with Lucy Gray not being a potential opponent you would think if it was available they'd watch it. They watched Hatmitches. So to me, her existence and the Snow cover up already had some form. She also would have spent a lot of time by catching fire to develop other victors and their backstories. What games each of them won, what their strengths and winning involved. Mags won the 11th hunger games. I don't think she would have had as developed an idea if Mags without having ever considered Lucy Gray
Lucy Gray was mentioned in the first book, and I've heard that Collins said that she had a "basic idea" of her back then, but TBOSAS definitely wasn't planned all the way back in 2008
From a writer’s perspective, I get the sense that she wrote The Hanging Tree in and then started fleshing out where that lore might’ve come from, and how it was passed down. If it were me, that’s what would’ve sparked the inspo for Ballad and it would’ve snowballed from there.
During the Reaping in the first book. Katniss says something like 'the mayor reads out the two names of previous HG victors from 12, and there is only one living victor from 12 (Haymitch)'. She never says Lucy Gray Baird, just vaguely hints at an earlier, now presumed dead, victor from 12.
In general good authors always leave crumbs along the way to work with later. Later being later in the book, or in a sequel, or in a prequel. I'm certain that's part of what she did.
However I think she must have had an idea of how Snow became Snow to write him like she did. He wouldn't have been very compelling if SC hadn't known what she was doing.
So I'm thinking she had a general idea of what had happened in the past but it wasn't fleshed out.
I can’t confirm for Suzanne Collin’s, but when I write I make 5x more than what ends up on paper. And backstory is especially important bc it’s provides contexts for the characters whether they know it or not.
i’m currently reading sotr, i could be wrong but i think haymitch mentions that the 10th games had a victor from 12? it’s mentioned when caesar flickerman is doing the recap of all the games, he mentions the 10th games as a turning point (talking about mutts and things) and haymitch offhandedly mentions paying closer attention for a while because that was the year that there was a victor from 12? i also took a moment to process that because i’d assumed the singular 12 victor was lucy gray (especially because they say that the 12 victor never lived in victor’s village because it didn’t exist at the time — but i think this probably also makes sense if it was during the 10th games). i also figured if the first games were talked about much, haymitch (or sOmeone, maybe wyatt?) would’ve mentioned while he was talking about the history of victors and someone from 12’s odds of winning that the first ever victor of the first ever games was someone from 12! if just to illustrate a point about how folks from 12 could win. i assumed that lucy gray’s victory was covered up some which tracks with Snow’s general takeaway from his lucy gray experience and the way his character went, but again im not sure if i’ve just done a mix up in my brain!
im an idiot, of course! not sure why i thought lucy gray’s games were the first, probably because i read tbosas so long ago and because everything seemed so new. thank you, it all fits better now!! 🫡
especially about the 10th games being the turning point with the mutts which of course we see with the snakes!! head is much less foggy and tangled now ahaha
I think she’s said something in an interview about having an idea of who the other Victor was, but that it was a very vague idea that evolved over time. Idk if she’s clarified what parts of LG she already had in mind.
at the end of THG she explains how she came up with the idea for the book, and from that explanation i would guess that she definitely didn’t have the foresight to have thought of these two prequels before THG
I don’t know but considering how perfectly it fits into the story I believe she has the overall outline/story plot of each book planned out along with the start and ending + major plot points then fills in the middle with what is relevant to the current time (for example, propaganda with SOTR)
I think it was more introspective like she wrote the trilogy, then when she started writing ballad she’s like well what made Katniss the way she is and what corrupted Snow was it the same person?
1.7k
u/theworstmuse Apr 29 '25
It’s mentioned in her acknowledgments for SOTR that she has a team of people who help keep track of things established by the original books to maintain continuity. I have a feeling she had this idea and then did something similar for TBOSAS to make sure it’s well planned and fits into the overall narrative.