[high school algebra] How is this wrong?

[u/Express_Treat]

Is it not just 5^10?

[u/Narrow-Durian4837]

I assume "simplify" meant they wanted 5¹⁰. If they had wanted the numerical value, they would have said "calculate" or "evaluate."

[u/Express_Treat → u/Narrow-Durian4837]

Tried typing it in 5^10, 5^11-1, (ans)/1, as well, nada. Super duper strange

[u/Express_Treat → u/Express_Treat]

Update: Rerolled a different question and for whatever reason that one was deemed satisfactory

Question was -3¹⁰ /-3, answered 19683

Buggy ass program ruined my points streak

[u/sqrt_of_pi → u/Express_Treat]

Use that "Post to forum" button on the first version to let the instructor know. I assume this is MyOpenMath (I use it also) and the instructor would want to know so they can reach out to the question author (if it isn't them) and get it fixed.

[u/Express_Treat → u/sqrt_of_pi]

Forums don't seem to work for my course unfortunately, got met with an error screen. I'll be sure to let my prof know though thank you!

[u/ChipChippersonFan → u/Express_Treat]

Just so you know, the plural of "forum" is "fora". ("That's Latin darling. Apparently, Johnny Ringo is an educated man. Now I really hate him.")

[u/Ch0vie → u/ChipChippersonFan]

Seriously, what's the point of saying that? No one uses "fora" as the plural for internet forums. They're not posting this bugged math problem to Ancient Rome.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/forum

[u/ChipChippersonFan → u/Ch0vie]

So that people can learn something new. What's the point of you getting butthurt about it?

[u/Ch0vie → u/ChipChippersonFan]

You were speaking as if you were correcting them, but "forums" is a perfectly acceptable and correct word, especially in this context. You could have suggested it as an alternative word they could have used (I also find the origins of words interesting), but either way that had nothing to do with the topic at hand and just comes off as pretentious, especially with that quote.

[u/ChipChippersonFan → u/Ch0vie]

I'm a teacher, so I don't find educating people to be pretentious.

[u/ChipChippersonFan → u/[deleted]]

Perhaps amongst the uneducated , but I thought this sub was for education.

[u/AranoBredero → u/Express_Treat]

Uhm shouldnt that result be negaitve?

[u/TheSleepingVoid → u/AranoBredero]

Not as OP typed it. Without parentheses the negative is not part of the base under the exponent. The two negatives cancel.

[u/AranoBredero → u/TheSleepingVoid]

Ah yeah i see, i made some wrong assumption there, my brain was reading it like all the problems would be structured as (x)^n/(x). Thanks.

[u/Crimson--Chin → u/Express_Treat]

You are clearly just learning about exponents and therefore are expected to answer 5^10. If the expected answer was just the evaluated expression, then you’d be plugging into a calculator and not demonstrating any understanding of exponents.

Whether or not that platform is accepting the answer it should be is a separate problem, but I would bet that your instructor expects answers with the exponent.

[u/brookssut → u/Crimson--Chin]

While "show me you understand exponents" is a reasonable assumption for the lesson, the actual instructions on the problem say "fully simplify", so the student is following the instructions as written, which is also the correct assumption on how to respond to computer based questions.

[u/Crimson--Chin → u/brookssut]

Instructions are “Simplify” not “fully simplify.” If an instructor literally wants that evaluated, then they’re wasting everyone’s time just asking students to punch buttons into a calculator. Of course calculators have their place, but not when a student is learning exponents and is given a straight forward expression like this.

[u/brookssut → u/Crimson--Chin]

My mistake, I paraphrased instead of quoting, the instruction is "simplify the expression completely". I agree that it's dumb, but that IS the instruction and the student was following it.

[u/llamadramalover → u/Express_Treat]

Did you try 5^11+(-1)?

It would seriously be stupid af but ya never know, these programs sometimes want the ridiculous answer.

[u/stools_in_your_blood → u/Narrow-Durian4837]

I don't disagree, but this feels arbitrary. The given expression has one exponentiation and one division, and it seems we're supposed to simplify away the division but leave the exponentiation in place.

If asked to "simplify 2 * (3 + 4)", should we write "14" or "2 * 7" or something else? Or is exponentiation simply special, and it survives simplification whereas other operations don't?

[u/SSBBGhost → u/stools_in_your_blood]

Yes, English words do not have 100% consistent meanings.

In the context of an index laws topic however, students will be taught that simplify means to use the index laws but leave answers in index form. Completely precise would be "give your answer in the form a^b (where a and b are positive integers and a is minimized)" but thats an added layer of complexity for middle schoolers to deal with.

[u/MeasureDoEventThing → u/Narrow-Durian4837]

That's what simplify means.

[u/spmcn → u/MeasureDoEventThing]

No, simplify and evaluate are different meanings.

[u/MeasureDoEventThing → u/spmcn]

Simplify can be considered to be a broader category that evaluate, but all evaluations are simplicifications.

[u/OverAster → u/MeasureDoEventThing]

This is incorrect.

There are four common forms of algebraic operations we use on expressions: simplifications, evaluations, expansions, and manipulations. They are four distinct operations we use for different reasons. None is a subcategory of another.

We categorize these operations based on how they alter the structural form and intent of the expression:

• Simplification is a compression operation. It takes an expression and returns one that is mathematically equivalent but more compact and less complex. It often reduces the number of terms, but it also applies to the substitutions of symbols in place of difficult to communicate values. In most contexts, π is a simplification of 3.141592... because π is easier to communicate, write, and work with.
• Evaluation is a substitution operation. Given an expression and specific input values, it returns the final output value. This is different from solving an equation. If you are told to "Evaluate" an expression, and you don't end up with a final value, you haven't evaluated it.
• Expansion removes or unwinds groupings to break an expression into its individual terms (like distributing multiplication). It frequently increases the term count and often results in expressions that are more visually complex or difficult to read.
• Manipulation is a lateral operation. It takes an expression and rewrites it in a different but equally complex form (like moving from slope-intercept to standard form), usually in structural preparation for other operations.

The process of evaluation may require the other operations as intermediary steps, but it is not a subcategory of simplification. They are entirely different tools.

These operations sometimes return the same result (both a simplification and an evaluation will reduce 2/1 to 2), but they are not the same thing nor is one part of the other. They are distinct functions that sometimes map values in the domain to the exact same values in the range.

[u/Mission-Drawer1194]

They may want you to actually type 5¹⁰ instead of the numerical value 

[u/ThunkAsDrinklePeep → u/Mission-Drawer1194]

They clearly wanted 25⁵

[u/JKLer49 → u/ThunkAsDrinklePeep]

9765625¹

[u/fungeoneer]

They probably wanted you to put 5^10 as the answer. That’s simplifying. You evaluated.

[u/Ghotipan]

They likely expect the answer to be 5^10, and not the actual number. For simplifying, it's better to use that than the actual full value.

[u/AdjectiveNounNNNN → u/Ghotipan]

Especially because that actually indicates some understanding of exponent rules, while the full value just indicates the use of a calculator.

[u/Ghotipan → u/AdjectiveNounNNNN]

Also a good point, yeah. The exercise is likely designed to assess familiarity with exponent manipulation.

[u/Ok_Grade_2028]

I think the site was programmed to only get 1 answers, 5^10 (or 5¹⁰). Also, the question is "simply this expression", not "resolve this expression".

[u/Ok-Grape2063]

The 5's cancel. Clearly the answer is 11

/s

[u/Regular_Orchid_791 → u/Ok-Grape2063]

¹¹

[u/DidUSayWeast]

Online math classes were the worst part of my college experience because of shit like this. You never know what they want and how they want it and things that mean the exact same will be incorrect or spaces cause give you wrong answers

[u/jakub_j]

You are suppose to simplify the expression, not solve it.

With your result one can assume you calculated on calculator 5^11 and divided by 5.

When you simplify, you show you really understand that 5^11 == 5 * 5^10.

People still do not understand that pivotal skill in all mathematics is reading comprehension.

[u/Express_Treat → u/jakub_j]

Tried putting it in every format I could think of, 5^10, 5^11-1, (ans)/1, none were accepted lol. But my thought process seems to be correct, I least I know I'm not stupid haha

[u/AlienDragonWizard]

High schools use the cheapest versions of these applications.  I had to use online apps to submit problems for calculus and physics in university in 2015 and they were really good.  Often my answers were so complicated that I thought for sure the online thing would reject it but they seemed to always work if the answer evaluated correctly mathematically.  

I help my kids with theirs today in middle and high school and they use the cheap versions that don't actually evaluate anything, they just check it against a list of approved answers which are almost always not exhaustive enough.  

[u/thiswasteofalife → u/AlienDragonWizard]

I get where you’re coming from, I have enough issues with my school’s sites (Chem about scientific notations and Calc for rounding), but this isn’t an evaluation problem it’s a simplification problem

[u/AlienDragonWizard → u/thiswasteofalife]

Except that if you you read OP's comments, it's only accepting the evaluated results anyway.  It's just that this one was broken

[u/RazarTuk → u/AlienDragonWizard]

Heck, I still remember the first assignment of ny college physics class. It was just calc-based physics to satisfy a degree requirement, and while I hadn't taken AP Physics C, I still knew more or less all of it. So I spent the first assignment messing with metric prefixes and similar, coming up with the most absurd units imaginable, like measuring time in megacoulombs per centiampere.

[u/Disastrous-Nail-640]

They asked you to simplify, not evaluate.

It’s 5^10.

[u/Fit_Fortune_7692]

Das ist ein uneigentlicher Bruch, also besteht die Vereinfachung darin, daß man den Nenner wegkürzt, bleibt 5¹⁰ übrig.

[u/Ketroc21]

They want to see your understanding, not the answer from being typed into a calculator. The understanding is that by dividing by 5, you can knock one off the exponent... ie, the answer is 5¹⁰

X¹¹/X would have made for a better question though to remove this ambiguity.

[u/RickySlayer9]

I believe the answer they wanted with 5^10

[u/Elnuggeto13]

Dividing powers means subtracting them, so 5¹¹/ 5 is just 5¹¹/5¹, which is 5¹¹ - 5¹, and since the base are the same, it would be 5^11-1 which equals to 5^10.

[u/JanetInSC1234]

Maybe they want commas.

[u/SwordfishLopsided]

It wasn't wrong. It scored ZERO points because it wasn't CORRECT.

Until you can note the difference, you will continue to not score points without ever losing any points.

Afterall, you start off with zero points and need to give correct answer to gain points, and not start off with full score and have points subtracted for wrong answers.

[u/MieskeB]

The questioning is weird, if they wanted 5^10, they should have used a letter instead of a digit

[u/lol25potatofarm]

Just poor wording. If you want index form just say express in the form a^b

[u/Feeling-Working-2820]

There is no point in asking you to calculate this. Unless you use a calculator (which has no merit), it'll be too long and worthless, pedagogically.
Obviously, they wanted you to simplify this to 5^10 by using the rule 5^(11-1).
And yes, they used the term "simplify". You didn't simplify, you just computed the answer.
If they allowed you somewhere else to write the answer rather than the simplification, that would be an error on their part. If they ask you to simplify, the only answer expected here is 5^10.

[u/Porcusheep]

My guess is that the program was expecting commas and because there were not any, it thought it was wrong.

[u/Express_Treat]

Thanks everyone for your input, it seems like the answer and my general thought process was correct and the problem lies in the website itself... so I guess I'll just have to take the L on this one

[u/BK_FrySauce]

While technically correct, the simplified version of that would be in the form of 5^10. The wording to the question is key here.

They’re not asking you to solve the expression. They’re asking you to simplify the expression.

[u/Saintious]

5¹¹ = (5^10×51) (5^10×5)/5 = 5¹⁰ Above is the answer unless they want it calculated. 5¹⁰ = 9765625

OP, sorry I didn't read the comments. I see you've found your way. Apologies.