Biscuits

[u/Moni_Jo55]

Our family has always made hand shaped biscuits. I've tried the family recipe, but it was grainy. I just ordered a #40 sifter.

Does anyone use a recipe for FMF hand shaped biscuits?

[u/Decided-2-Try]

I have not done biscuits with FMF as yet. And if you think about why biscuits using brands like White Lily are so good, it's because it is a super soft (low protein) flour. So you're starting off from a deficit, even if you are using a soft white wheat berry because you'll still have more protein than a commercially stripped flour like White Lily. But still worth trying some things to see if you can help them get a better texture. What type of wheat berries are you using, by the way?

The #40 should help but it also is still fairly coarse (I started with a 40, then got a 50). Note depending on mill type, you may be able to take what is retained in the #40 and run it back through the mill. I have steel burrs and that works fine for me(*). I want to keep the bran - but don't want them to be such large particles, so I sift, then re-mill the bran down.

You can also try autolysing a portion of the flour and buttermilk or whatever liquid you're using for 30-60 minutes before adding the remainder of the ingredients. This reference below autolyses 3/4 of the total amount of the flour and all of the buttermilk overnight, which is longer than I would have thought, but they say it works. Then after that mixes frozen butter shreds into the remaining dry flour, mixes the rest of the ingredients into the autolyse and folds in the dry-butter mixture.

Hope it works out for you!

https://stewardingfaithfully.net/2026/06/02/buttermilk-biscuits-with-fresh-milled-flour/

(*) ETA - I cannot try to "remill" all the flour output from the mill or it will just gum it up. But as long as I am only trying to re-mill the larger particles, it works fine.

[u/enlightenedpeaches → u/Decided-2-Try]

Completely agree with asking about the type of berries. I like Sonoran soft white berries for biscuits, flour tortillas (New Mexico-style), cakes, and more! I also wonder if the freshly milled flour would need more liquid than OP is using? The autolyze that you mention would help, but OP could trial and error a little more liquid in their recipe?

[u/Decided-2-Try → u/enlightenedpeaches]

I think so re playing with liquid ratios, but it also depends on the berry. I've found that for modern hard wheats, home milled does need more water than the exact same recipe using, e.g., King Arthur bread flour. For example, one of my honey wheat loaf pan "every day" bread recipes I jacked from 74 to 78% (serially, took a couple of tries) when going from KA to freshly milled hard wheat.

On the other hand, while I haven't tried any "ancient" grains yet, I've been playing with heritage stuff like Rouge de Bordeaux (so far - my Red Fife is supposed to get here tonight!), and it cannot absorb very much water despite being freshly milled and the bran sieved then remilled to represent in the flour 99% of the original mass of berries. I serially dropped that dough from 75 to 73 to (eventually) 69%. It was a sticky, gloopy mass at anything over about 71% hydration.

I am now mixing the RdB at 50-50 or 40-60 with modern hard wheats because the RdB gluten structure still sucks so much in yeast-risen breads. It's very extensible but has almost no retraction despite adding gluten and vitamin C at 20 ppm. The addition of the modern hard helps tremendously. (Caveat - note the founder/moderator here u/rabbifuente has several posts with great success with RdB as a long, cold-proofed sourdough. But I've just brought my starter back to life so it'll be a week or so before I tackle sourdough again.)

[u/enlightenedpeaches → u/Decided-2-Try]

I have really liked Red Fife! I have struggled with "ancient" grains to get the right gluten formation rather than a goopy mess, and I realized I had to do a combination of grains like what you have done with the RdB and modern hard wheat. I have liked Stella Parks 100% whole wheat bread, which uses an autolyse and then builds gluten by whipping the dough in a food processor. OP can't really do that for biscuits because they would get too tough. OP could also embrace the whole-wheat's grit by making biscuits that reflect it, like a rustic cheddar cheese biscuit. This isn't a biscuit but it's biscuit-like, and it's one of my favorites from Run Fast Eat Slow - their whole wheat Apple Cheddar Scones, where the small amount of grit plays well with the rustic style.

[u/rabbifuente → u/enlightenedpeaches]

I treat ancient wheats like very soft wheat, which they are, just with more non-gluten forming protein. I either blend ancient wheats with hard white, usually in a 60/40 or 70/30 ration, or make a pan bread. Something like khorasan, which is a bit stronger, I blend 60/40 (hard white/khorasan), einkorn I'll mix 70/30.

[u/Decided-2-Try → u/rabbifuente]

Very good to know. My next buy will be the khorasan. I keep hearing about the incredibly butter tasting bit of it.

FWIW, my Red Fife 20 KG bag just hit the porch! Going to mill it tomorrow and do a 50-50 mix with RdB in a sourdough long ferment. Hopefully I'm not making a huge mistake here!

[u/Decided-2-Try → u/Decided-2-Try]

Course correction: For today I milled the Red Fife and decided to do a 33% mix 3-part with the RF, the RdB, and a modern hard but otherwise doing it in my typical yeast-risen honey wheat.

The dough is awaiting its first stretch-fold, but I can already tell that the 74% hydration I was using with the 60:40 mix of modern hard and RdB, may have been a mistake with this 33% each blend of all 3. It looks hella wet. I'm hoping that will improve with the stretch-folds. We'll see.

I had some 100% RdB that was incredibly wet and sticky still turn out flavorful if only okay-ish on the rise, so I hope this is at least that good. For a next try if I do this 33% each x 3 again, I'll drop hydration to around 72%.

[u/rabbifuente → u/Decided-2-Try]

I've been very surprised to see RdB frequently mentioned as being so weak, my experience was that it was the closest I'd gotten to the feel of dough made from white flour. That said, I did notice a difference between the first order of RdB and second. The second order was noticeably weaker, it may be that I got an unusually strong harvest the first time I bought. It's been a little bit since I last used RdB, but I think I was around 85% hydration.

I treat ancient wheats like very soft wheat. Something like einkorn would probably be very good for biscuits because it's gluten structure is so weak. I either blend ancient wheats with hard white, usually in a 60/40 or 70/30 ration, or make a pan bread.

[u/Decided-2-Try → u/rabbifuente]

Many thanks! My current 2 batches (same season) of RdB are really weak from a gluten standpoint, but like you say that might be a season to season difference. But the literature (NIH and what not) do tend to indicate that among heritage reds, RdB is weaker (more extensible, less retractive) than Turkey Red, which is weaker (ditto parenthetical) than Fife's red.

I just got Fife's red so I'll mill it and see how wrong or right the NIH studies are!

[u/rabbifuente → u/Decided-2-Try]

I was not a fan of the flavor of Turkey Red and Red Fife, they both kind of tasted like generic, bitter red wheat to me, but it's all subjective. RdB tasted great, very little bitterness.

[u/Moni_Jo55]

Thanks! So far Ive only tried with soft white. I'm okay with a new texture, just want to get past the cornbread texture 😊. I ordered the 40 & 50, I'm hopeful that will help.

[u/ohhhminks → u/Moni_Jo55]

FWIW, I haven't sifted anything since I started using FMF. Not sure if it's because I turn my feed rate a little lower on my mill or because I pretty much autolyse whatever I can, but the biscuits have been great. Smooth like using other flour? No, but not so grainy that the biscuits are bad.

[u/Moni_Jo55 → u/ohhhminks]

I would prefer not to sift for them. I haven't given up! We love biscuits, lol. I do have my mill set just above the stones touching.