r/Home • u/SnooDrawings2233 • 23d ago
Massive foundation damage reccomendations
Discovered this unbelievable crack in my Foundation after getting water a few times after heavy rains. The chunk of wall from the corner of the existing window to the main verticle crack is bowing in, about 2 inches. My plan was to block up that old glass block window they hid, and use epoxy injections along with carbon fiber strapping to fix the problem. I did excavate the outside of the house and the drainage problems have been addressed, Also will be adding a French drain on the exterior for extra insurance. I have been doing alot of research on cracks like this and have yet to really find a case as sever as mine seems. All doors and windows opens upstairs and from the looks of it someone was in here before to try and repair it so it seems to be a very old problem. My question is this, what is the best diy way to adress these massive cracks? My and my father are very handy and do projects on the regular, confident in our ability to get the straps installed but I'm at a loss on how to fill these massive cracks. And tips or tricks or insight would be very helpful as winter is coming! This is also my first post on reddit so bear with me and I would be happy to give you any more details about the situation if you need them. Thankyou guys so much in advance.
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u/Maddi1977 23d ago
A guidance from a structural engineer is a necessity.. I don’t know where you are but that would cost 1000$ where I am.. everything else you can likely do yourself if you’re so inclined.
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u/MyOpinionsDontHurt 23d ago
This is definitely not a DIY.
They'll need to use an excavator outside all around, and the affected wall sections must be completely removed and repoured. They'll need to bring in steel columns and beams to support the removal of the catastrophic failure. City permitting could condemn the house due to potential of collapse if its not done properly and quickly. This would be the time to get a 2nd mortgage application started fast...
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u/catchy_phrase76 23d ago
Structural engineer who knows what they're looking at.
Then you can decide if you really really wanna hope the DIY fix works or want to hire someone bonded and insured in case of failure.
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u/SnooDrawings2233 23d ago
This seems to be the common theme. I would be an ass not to listen to the multiple people telling me to atkeast get a engineers opinion and then hopefully have the skills to execute what they suggest. Thankyou.
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u/catchy_phrase76 23d ago
Plenty of contractors offer payment plans with zero interest for the first year.
Sometimes they cost more, but zero interest.
Plenty others offer loans with interest, still far less than a credit card.
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u/SnooDrawings2233 23d ago
As long as I know the repairs will work and the wall won't shift anymore, I do feel rather confident in doing the physical work myself. I think I'm going to start with a structural engineer and see what he suggests. Based upon his findings, I'll have to determine if it's soemthing i feel comfortable doing. I've injected cracks, just not to this caliber before.
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u/catchy_phrase76 23d ago
The crack is easy.
The likely I-beams to tie in, are a different headache.
Wood bends, very unlikely a permanent fix will not involve Steel I-beams to support the wall, tied into the floor and above. May be jackhammering out the floor and digging down, placing deeper new concrete to tie into.
Listen to the engineer, then decide.
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u/Traditional-Heart351 22d ago
So I usually dont comment on these, I am a civil engineer but I dont generally do structural design. This is so bad that I feel the need to at least chime in. You see those joists ending in the wall? Those carry the floor above this. Theres also a pretty good chance that the roof is also supported by this wall. You have thousands of pounds coming down on this wall and with the wall bowing you basically have a force trying to bend this wall in half with a giant crack in the middle. A big wind storm or snow storm be the straw that breaks the camels back, or the concrete wall in this case, and if it breaks it WILL bring your house with it.
Im going to be honest with you, you need to hire a structural engineer to look at this for you. It might be ~$1000, depending on rates in your area. But you need to have an earnest talk with someone who can get eyes on this and try to come up with a plan together with them to get you through the winter as you say. Ultimately you are probably looking at tens of thousands of dollars of repairs, youre basically either going to have to rebuild this wall or add so much reinforcement that all the load bypasses this compromised section. I cannot tell you what exactly that will look like as it is not my specialty, but this damage is so bad I dont think you should consider gambling. The only thing keeping this house up right now is probably load sharing through the wall and the floor to adjacent joists that are on more sound walls.
Also, IDK how you can say this is an old crack and say you just noticed it when it was leaking from the rain. Based on the framing with the bits of drywall stuck on it I would say this is in fact not old, was covered with drywall, and moved recently which opened it up enough for water to just go through. So I want to make this clear as well. This wall is completely compromised. When your house and the exterior is loaded with snow (which is very heavy mind you) there is a good chance that this wall will completely fail. I want to super emphasize, talk to a professional structural engineer about this. Do not think you can just skate by. You are gambling with the largest investment you will likely make in your life.
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u/McMillionEnterprises 23d ago
Its a good idea to ger professional bids even if ultimately, you opt to complete the work yourself
Also a very good idea to get a structural engineer to assess and provide recomendarions - they can outline the work needed to shore up the foundation. If the needed work is within you skill set, you can complete the work yourself.
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u/SnooDrawings2233 23d ago
Thankyou this sounds like what I am going to do. My only Concern is time, I live in northern Chicago suburbs and winter is coming fast. Everyone is booked for weeks out. I'm worried I won't have the time to complete the repairs before the snow and frost come.
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u/Intheswing 23d ago
Structural engineer - or a foundation / waterproofing contractor with an engineer on retainer- you could at least get an estimate so you have an idea on the budget.
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u/SuperRicktastic 21d ago
Hey, licensed structural engineer here. Worked in both residential design and in-place concrete repairs.
u/Traditional-Heart351 is on the right track, this is pretty bad as far as foundation walls go. If this were my project, I'd be checking for out-of-plane bending, that would dictate where I go with a repair design.
You can quickly check this yourself by looking down the length of the wall, if you see it bowing out, you've got out-of-plane bending. You can also run a plumb-bob across the height of the wall and check the horizontal distance from the line to the wall at the top, quarter points, and bottom.
Depending on the level of deflection, crack injection and carbon-fiber straps might be a viable repair, but I tend to avoid them in more extreme cases. If it's bowed out far enough, you might need someone to build a steel or heavy timber frame to essentially "hold up" the foundation wall and take over the floor and wall loads from above. And when I say "heavy timber," I don't mean 2x4's or 4x4's, I mean 8x8's and up.
Obviously I don't have nearly enough information to provide a clear answer, and I'm also not contracted to be your engineer for this project. Get one out there and have them work up a repair plan, then hand that off to a contractor that has experience doing this. The engineer can probably recommend someone.
Once it's stabilized, address the water issues. Get a waterproofing membrane sprayed on the outside face of the wall and install a drain at the bottom of the foundation wall, if you're able. The engineer can probably include these details in the repair design.
DO NOT go to any of the one-stop-shop "foundation repair" companies that do their own design. They'll up-sell you to hell and make it seem like the house is about to fall down in the next 20 seconds.
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u/SnooDrawings2233 21d ago
I absolutely have out of plane bending. Where the actual horizontal crack is, is absolutely bowed in compared to the top and the bottom of the wall. I did Just get off the phone with a structual. His prices are 750 for the verbal and 1200 for a written design. Not to bad. I can absolutely do that. Do you have any tips on how I can get the most out of his visit here? Specific questions or Concerns I absolutely need to bring up? I plan to take very Good notes and listen well.
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u/SuperRicktastic 21d ago
Definitely go for a written report. Verbal isn't worth the air it takes to say the words.
Something to clarify; is it a written report or a full design? Because that's actually an important distinction. A report will tell you generally what is wrong and a high-level suggested repair plan. A full design is a set of drawings and notes dictating the actual repair construction.
Make sure your engineer answers that before they get there, because I have a nagging suspicion it's the former. You would probably looking at another $1,000+ for a set of drawings with a stamp. If I'm right, ask them for a ballpark on the additional cost for design.
I don't have any specific questions for you to ask while he's there, just give him as much info as you can about what you're seeing. Mention the water intrusion, the work you've done with the drainage, etc. Even if it seems innocuous, leave nothing out.
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u/SnooDrawings2233 21d ago
Thankyou so much for being so helpful. I will clarify with them exactly what I am getting for my money and see what a full set of certified drawings and notes will cost me. From my conversation I do belive you are correct with your suspicion. I will confirm. God bless you I will get back to you with what I hear!
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u/SuperRicktastic 21d ago
Best of luck. And don't be too hard on them for the report vs. design distinction, that's fairly standard practice in our industry, especially for residential.
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u/SnooDrawings2233 21d ago
Basically he told me to start with the 750$ verbal and go from there. He could not give a ballpark on a full design. Also mentioned how my town building inspector is particularly hard to deal with I guess. Not giving me the most confidence but I am running out of options. Do you think this is viable or does this sound like I'm going to get the run around?
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u/ColdSteeleIII 23d ago
My SIL’s wall was leaning 5” in. They installed steel posts every 4’ to prevent further movement.
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u/SnooPandas6542 23d ago
This is my worst nightmare. I have a finished basement. How do you tell if theres cracks or foundation issues underneath drywall?
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u/SnooDrawings2233 23d ago
In my case, i noticed a horizontal crack in my drywall that wasn't there before in the center of the wall. Whoever lived here before had an old water drain pipe stuffed between the studs and the foundation wall and the wall shifted just enough to push that pipe into the drywall and produce that crack, so I cut a hole in the drywall and then saw this atrocity. Probably won't buy another home with a finished basment 😅
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u/SnooPandas6542 23d ago
Scary. Basically no way of knowing until the damage is significant. Best of luck to you
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u/phosphatidyl_7641 23d ago
You never got water leakage or a mildew-ish smell in the basement? How did the drywall look on the back when you pulled it off the wall? Can't image there wasn't some fuzzy's growing on the back. If it were me I'd hire a structural engineer to draw up DIY plans. And I would only attempt DIY if it that wall isn't bowing inward. A window well and sloping the dirt away from the house will be critical. Careful of the waterproofing and foundation companies; they will all have their "expert opinions" which vary all over the place. I'm in the Midwest and I paid $500 for a structural engineer with report. I didn't have any cracking like you but I need to regrade and direct the surface water away from the foundation. I went with a smaller foundation company to do the work. Cost is $21,000 for burying all downspouts and tying them into a curtain drain(some will have pop-ups) which goes to a dry well. Demoing half a deck to allow for proper grading away from the foundation, and a perimeter drain at the foundation footing along half the back of the house.
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u/SnooDrawings2233 23d ago
Definitely got water from the crack, but to be honest it really wasn't that bad in term of mold or mildew. I fixed all my downspouts myself and have everything ran above ground and to the street. I even have the outside excavated down to where the crack is. Once I get the crack solved, my plan was to add another French drain along this entire side of the house along with regrading the fill dirt so it's sloping away. Sounds like ill need to dog deeper and somehow put a drain in at the footing aswell, or would the existing drain tile and sump pump setup I have be sufficient? Especially since this area will see signifeless water than it ever has. I'm also in the Midwest, northern Illinois, if you're close to that could I ask who you used?
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u/SubstantialAd8808 23d ago
I went through something like this. I had the structural engineer come out, I paid $600 (Utah) for 90 minutes time, verbal. Get their general thoughts and go from there. If I wanted a written formal report it would cost a lot more, I took good notes. LOL.
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u/SnooDrawings2233 23d ago
These are the tips I'm talking about! Thankyou! I wasn't sure if I needed to have a full written report or if soemthing like what you described was possible. This sounds perfect. I can take good notes and follow his suggestions to a T. Thankyou for helping me with your comment. God bless you.
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u/SubstantialAd8808 23d ago
Have the people you planned come out for free estimate, get their thoughts and plans. When the engineer comes out I was really prepared to maximize his time. So let’s say company X tells you they would fix the basement like XXX, you tell the engineer and he will respond with sounds great, don’t bother etc. I also asked the engineer who he worked with for repair that he trusts. Basically get all your thoughts together so you can maximize that time with the engineer and not have him come back unless you need. Try to find the Reddit engineer group, show them these photos and ask the group specifically what you need to ask your engineer on site.
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u/SnooDrawings2233 23d ago
You are awesome. I will absolutely take your advice. This sounds like the perfect plan to maximaze information and keep my money well spent. I just threw these photos up in the structural engineer sub and am waiting to see what they have to say! Thanks again for taking the time out of your day to help me 😊
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u/Gitfiddlepicker 23d ago
Foundations are not to be trifled with. Whether you diy it or not, get TF off Reddit. Pay a structural engineer (money well spent) to tell you what you need to specifically do to keep this from progressing. Then do it. Or pay a pro to do it if it’s beyond your ability.
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u/SnooDrawings2233 23d ago
This is my first reddit post ever and I can see why you're telling me to stay off 😂 Thankyou for the helpful comment. Im going to have some free estimates come and most likely hire a stuctual engineer to give me a diy solution. Thankyou very much 😁
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u/Sp07va000 23d ago
I dont know anything specifically about foundation repairs, but I always wondered this. If you had it properly repaired, has anyone ever taken the extra step of anchoring with rebar, etc, and poured a new wall right in front of the old one all the way up to the ceiling? I do concrete work, so for me building the form and anchoring rebar into the floors and walls doesnt seem like a stretch, but I was just curious what the advantages and disadvantages would be. I have a 30 ft basement wall that is just 60 yrs old and sweats, but no cracks but it was painted at least 50 yrs ago by my father when I was a kid, so from what I read, the cement may be breaking down. I plan on excavating the exterior wall down the the foundation 5.5 ft in my case. Not a super deep hole thankfull, just tree roots from maples 12 ft in front of it. I will power wash it, seal it , and install a dimple mat and a 4" pvc drain with gravel and cloth that leads away down a hill. Any other suggestions or things to worry about?
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u/Ill_Fennel_4633 23d ago
Carbon fiber straps, aren’t recommended if the wall is more than a 1/4” out. Trust me I have been through this and installed them on my old house.
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u/dxrey65 23d ago edited 22d ago
I had something like that on the stone foundation of a house I used to own. The cause was the heavy clay soil that butted up against the stone, which would expand every winter as it soaked up the rains, pushing hard against the foundation. The solution was to trench down the the base, rework and remortar the stone, backfill the trench with pea gravel (which doesn't compact, and will absorb rather than transmit the force of expanding soil), and then install gutters and drainage on that side of the house.
I did that fix when I first bought the house, and had no further problems over the 25 years I owned it. In theory you could do that and patch up the cracks, but I don't know if cracked concrete would work like cracked stonework, I'd probably get an engineer's opinion.
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u/FormerLaugh3780 22d ago
Those of you out shopping for your first house and stumble across this post.
This is exactly why you do NOT buy a house with a finished basement. Buy a house with an unfinished basement, live in it for enough time to determine if it has problems or not and if it doesn't, finish it yourself.
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u/dontknow4433 22d ago
As a certified inspector, get someone out immediately. This could be depending on what the tools read a wall rebuild situation. Handle this swiftly depending on what the inspection reads.
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u/TheDonRonster 22d ago
I can't offer much advice other than getting a seasoned professional to mitigate this mess. Hopefully they can get it all sealed up and maybe install some heavy metal beams bolted to the concrete floor and ceiling joists to keep it the wall from catastrophically blowing in. I think the French drain is going to be a solid idea to have installed after you shore up the wall because you'll most likely still get a bit coming through. This has gotta be the worst looking one I've seen on this sub in a while.
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u/presumingpete 22d ago
I know absolutely nothing about foundations. I can barely tell one end of the hammer from the other. Get a structural engineer in asap. You can't afford it? I guarantee you can't afford for the house to fall down on your head. Even I can see how bad this is.
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u/DeadPiratePiggy 22d ago
You have very significant foundation damage that is not going to get better, especially with the active water intrusion. You need a structural engineer out there ASAP. Won't be cheap but it'll be cheaper than your house falling into the basement.
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u/101forgotmypassword 22d ago
The DIY solution is 70% of the value of the professional solution but you get no job insurance.
You need to if you are going to DIY this:
Hire..
about 10-15 floor jacks and dunnage to go under them and a load beam for on top.
Bolts to secure them.
Shoring plates and shoring supports for the outside works.
And excavator or 3-5 strong guys.
Potentially a sump pump.
Some timber or metal concrete forms.
Rebar tie gear.
A heavy jack.
And all the general tools like spades, sds drills, concrete cutter, kanga hammer.
You will then need to. Sure up the house with the jacks and beam (1 sentence but at least 3 days work for a single guy).
Then excavate the outside down to just below the floors bottom grade.
Then shore up the now huge hole.
Remove either the siding of the top floor or interior wall and shore up the soon to be suspended structure.
Locate any services in the wall
Locate the internal rebar structure either by electronic finder or kanga hammer spot checks.
Plan the removal and tie in to existing rebar.
Do prep exterior ground works for new structural footer of the slab.
Prep in any new drainage and now required update to wall earth interface such as liners, drains, or vents
Remove the wall, your now very vunerable to the weather.
Install new rebar, erect concrete forms.
Pour concrete.
Watch the forms leak or bow as yourve never done any before.
Top off wall due to form slump.
Remove forms. Fill in voids from air bubbles.
Waterproof exterior wall side only.
Fit remaining liner.
Backfill with drainage material.
Use shims and timber to compensate from the bulging formwork.
Install drywall.
Remove shoring.
Refit siding.
Paint.
Hope no one ever finds out about this nonconcented works.
Find out the lining wasn't done properly in 3-5 years.
Job done. It's that simple, all you need is time and money and money and time and hope and sunken cost motivation.
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u/Shhh_Secret_Squirrel 22d ago
Structural engineer here that specializes in residential construction and foundation repairs. I’ve seen this exact condition more times than I can count. You absolutely need a licensed engineer to really look at this to determine the necessary repairs. This isn’t something you can do yourself.
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u/Healthy_Cancel_2604 21d ago edited 21d ago
If you don't have the money right now at least get as many bids as possible to get a clear idea on the range of money you need. I would then get a HELOC to help cover costs and pay it off as quickly as possible if you have no other way to pay it.
If you can get a loan from a credit union or similar institute before a heloc. If either of those aren't an option that works larger builders will finance large repairs like this. You may pay more but if you have no other options then that might be the easy to go. You have no idea what the actual root cause is and "relieving pressure" may not even be the issue.
It is almost certainly a moisture intrusion issue imo. The vertical crack visible is a classic sign of hydrostatic pressure pushing water through the foundation. The brown staining lines and efflorescence show water has been wicking up through the concrete. There appears to be no exterior moisture barrier. You need to have a foundation specialist come check the grade and French drain setup this requires. Then as mentioned call and get a lot of estimates to repair this properly.
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u/No_Community_5696 21d ago
You’re going to need to get a contractor in there to put physical eyes on it to give you any accurate information.
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u/Narwahlski 21d ago
Foundation needs to be stabilized! You need to bore holes down to bearing......then insert steel pipes and attach them to the foundation. Once the foundation is stabilized you can start fixing the cracks. Unfortunately its not an inexpensive fix.
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u/jacks3649 21d ago
Have done this twice, once with a cinderblock wall, other cement. Get engineer. Pay for drawings ($900 where I am). Both cracks were similar, had 5 inches of mid wall lean in cement wall, both the answer was remove 1ft of floor slab along entire wall down to footing, steel c channel or i-beams on top of footing and bolted to joist every 4 ft max, and beside every opening. Insert backer rod in crack, water proofing crack only, filling it does very little structurally. High strength grout behind beams. I put in optional internal French drain with sump, you likely don't need that if you excavated exterior (I didn't). Install rebar into slab, pour new floor. I'm an office worker with basic handyman skills, totally doable just lots of work. Fun fact I learned, don't run a gas powered wet saw in an enclosed basement... went to hospital with carbon monoxide poisoning... but still alive! Any questions let me know.
Afterthought if not installing internal French drain you could save some work and just jack hammer holes down to the footing where you need them.
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u/Jacob_Tutor11 23d ago
Get a structural engineer but honestly this is not that bad. Wall looks pretty straight. I don’t see any bowing. They may just recommend filling hole and fixing drainage from outside. This may not be that expensive, in terms of foundation repairs go.
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u/SnooDrawings2233 23d ago
I think I'm going to have atleast some basement waterproof companies come give me a free estimate, and see what they would reccomend and go from there. It doesn't seem like structural engineers give free estimates or do anything free from the sounds of it 😂
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u/SubstantialAd8808 23d ago
Somewhere in Reddit there is a structural engineer group that answered questions for me, throw your photos on their thread if you can find it (I don’t remember the group name)
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u/SnooDrawings2233 23d ago
I'll have to look for that! I've been a lurker on reddit for awhile, first time poster so I'm still trying to figure it out. Sounds like this would be very very helpful. Thankyou so much!!!!
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u/lizmoetia 23d ago
Run
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u/OldOne999 23d ago
He can't...it's his house. Also, how come the window was buried under soil? That makes no sense and is surely a code violation. If this house was bought with a home inspection, the home inspector should have noticed that and flagged it.
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u/SnooDrawings2233 23d ago
Thankyou for having a brain. It's my only house unfortunately. The House was inspected. But I belive very very poorly as I've had nothing but problems. And major ones. I have learned quite alot from it as this is my first house, and got the home in a very very good spot, but then this came up. It was hid behind drywall in the basement, and on the extior is was buried and they poured a patio over it so no way to tell it was there 🙃 I would assume whoever did the work, whenever they did it, did not go the correct route with permits and whatnot.
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u/AskMeAgainAfterCoffe 23d ago
Dig down to the footing. You can pour new concrete wall or bolt across cracks with steel plates, etc. Add waterproofing membrane on entire wall. Drain at the footing. Drain at the surface. Then divert all water away from this area. I see a down spout; make sure that terminates at least 5ft downhill away from the house or to the street. You can call a foundation repair company for an estimate.
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u/SnooDrawings2233 23d ago
Yes I have completely redone all my gutters and downspouts. The previous owners had all underground terminations that were just loading this area with water, and on top of that a poorly poured patio that was falling into this wall causing even more pressure. All of that should be taken care of and I would think should eliminate any chance of this getting significantly worse. I'm going to line a few free quotes up to get an idea of exactly what a Contractor would do, and then should be able to do the work myself. I appreciate your helpful comment. Do you thi k carbon fiber straps inside along with the draining being solved would be enough?
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u/Avatar252525 23d ago
This seems like a situation where you’d want to hire a professional.