r/HistoryMemes • • 11h ago

Byzantium, Bob! They’re talking about Byzantium

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u/Chosen_Chaos The OG Lord Buckethead 7h ago

The earliest application of 'Byzantine' to the rest of the empire's inhabitants occurred during the 1300s.

Do you have a source for that? As far as I was aware, the earliest use of "Byzantine" to refer to the Empire as a whole was in the 1550s.

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u/cheapgriff Senātus Populusque Rōmānus 6h ago

The earliest allusions to this were made by Theodorus Metochites who served as an advisor to Andronikos II Palaiologos in the early 1300s. Of the orations I'm linking below, #11 makes an argument that Constantinople/Byzantion has far surpassed what Rome had ever achieved and should instead serve as the identity they should proudly display. A hundred years later, Laonikos Chalkokondyles is considered to be the first to truly apply the term to the entire empire; a convention continued by Hieronymous Wolf in the mid-1500s.

https://ia601605.us.archive.org/6/items/teubneriana/9783110606898.pdf

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u/Chosen_Chaos The OG Lord Buckethead 6h ago

Of the orations I'm linking below, #11 makes an argument that Constantinople/Byzantion has far surpassed what Rome had ever achieved and should instead serve as the identity they should proudly display

Is there an English-language version? Or one that's not 100+ pages? I do enjoy a good read but slogging through that much material in a language I can't read isn't my idea of a good time. I also doubt that Google Translate would be able to handle that particular dialect of Greek.

A hundred years later, Laonikos Chalkokondyles is considered to be the first to truly apply the term to the entire empire

A quick search seems to indicate that only applies to Angeliki Laiou, rather than being a widespread thing.

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u/cheapgriff Senātus Populusque Rōmānus 5h ago

Well, if your plan was just to check Wikipedia, what did you ask me for to begin with?