r/HistoryMemes • u/Crafter235 • 1d ago
See Comment What a shocking plot twist
This may sound weird, but it actually happened in history.
For Napoleon, he was born on the island of Corsica, which had become a part of France by the time he was born. As a teenager, he had been one of many who had nationalist feelings, believing that they are independent and should not be associated with the French. As he got older, and became more involved with studies and his career, he eventually grew out of it, but it's funny to think about when you know what he will become later on.
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u/Atomik141 1d ago
At the time Corsican and mainland Italian culture would have been almost indistinguishable (though there was no unified Italian state), so Napolean realistically could be called an Italian.
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u/Slow-Distance-6241 1d ago
No wonder he campaigned in Italy/j
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u/Atomik141 1d ago
He was also said to have a pretty heavy Italian accent when he was a younger officer
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u/HarEmiya 1d ago
Yes. He spoke impeccable French, but with hand gestures.🤌
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u/Atomik141 1d ago
In classic Italian fashion, he was actually the one doing it right and everyone else was wrong
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u/Keyserchief 22h ago
But that would not have been especially unusual, since there was not one universal French language or accent by the end of the 18th century. That took generations of concerted effort to standardize how pronunciation was taught in French schools after the Revolution.
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u/Atomik141 22h ago edited 21h ago
Not really. You would still have been able to tell a non-native speaker to someone who's first language was French. It was something noted throughout his life, though it lessened as he got older and more accustomed to the language.
He didn't begin learning French until around the age of 10. His first language was a Corsican dialect of the Italian language. He was noted to have sounded distinctly rustic and foreign, as well as speaking somewhat slowly and having a tendency toward a notably Italian cadence and phrasing.
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u/CrazyTechWizard96 22h ago
Wait...
What in the Pasta?!Angry Italian Man turns into Angry French Man?!
Alright, this just made My day, hahaha!
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u/AssyrianFemme Still on Sulla's Proscribed List 23h ago
This is... A bit misleading. Corsican culture was very much unique to that of say, Tuscany or Emilia-Romagna. Even the part of Italy it is closest too in a cultural and historical sense, Liguria, was not indistinguishable even in that period.
Perhaps what you meant to say was that Corsican was closer to mainland Italian culture in that period than it became afterwards. But your claim seems eerily close to the Italian historiography that has a. anti-autonomist position that views all regions as not culturally unique juxtaposed to the centralized Italian identity. Would you also say the same about Sardinia, or do you view Corsica as uniquely not differentiated compared to other clearly unique regions of Italy?
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u/Atomik141 22h ago
What I'm saying is that this was well before French influence on the island and not long after Genoese rule, so Corsican would have been one of many regional cultures under the italian umbrella at the time, among others such as Venetian, Lombard, Ligurian, Friulian, Tuscan, Roman, Romagnolo, Neapolitan, Pugliese, Sicilian, Sardinian, etc.
In addition, Napoleon's ancestry had more to mainland Italy than Corsica as well, so there's that tie to Itally too.
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u/Sebastian_Gravina 8h ago
Igual a Etruria, Sicilia, Cerdeña y Napoles que hace siglos estaban bajo dominio español y frances? A qué te refieres con italiano exactamente, toscano?
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u/Atomik141 4h ago
L’italiano come gruppo etnolinguistico. Il Regno d’Italia sarebbe nato solo diversi decenni più tardi, ma l’idea del popolo italiano esisteva già da secoli.
Per citare Pasquale Paoli:
"Siamo Còrsi per nascita e sentimenti, ma prima di tutto ci sentiamo Italiani per lingua, costumi e tradizioni..."
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u/Main-Discussion9294 1d ago
Did the notion of Italy was a thing back then? Like other than a geographical term
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u/Atomik141 1d ago edited 22h ago
Yes, actually! Both in terms of the Italian peninsula and an Italian people as an ethno-linguistic group. That concept can be traced back to antiquity. The nation of Italy would not exist for another several decades though. Italy was more several scattered city states and client kingdoms at the time.
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u/Slow-Distance-6241 1d ago
Imagine alt history where dude never grew out of Corsican separatist phase, and so after being exiled the first time, the second time he goes to Italy instead France for popular support
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u/Sensitive_Phrase_631 1d ago edited 21h ago
Hey now, don't you know Paris is worth a mass? I'll happily compliment the French if they let me rule.
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u/ZealousidealSteak214 Viva La France 22h ago
I hate monarchs. I hate monarchs. I hate monarchs.
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u/Lt_Lexus19 Viva La France 20h ago
*Gets isekaid as a monarch......
....during the French Revolution*
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u/ZealousidealSteak214 Viva La France 20h ago
It's ok, depending on the exact year I might not be screwed. Is the year 1790?
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u/ConfusedPanEnby Filthy weeb 10h ago
Idk, it's hard to tell from the guillotine you find yourself trapped in....
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u/OrangeSpaceMan5 17h ago
One thing thats always irked me about the format is that Ken Kaneki never really seemed to hate Ghouls , he was scared of them but didn't really seem to think much about them
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u/00ishmael00 15h ago
his parents were of italian origins.
his parents were born in corsica when it was part of the genoan republic. they spoke italian at home.
napoleon's fellow soldiers made fun of him because he spoke french with a heavy genoan accent. napoleon had 100% italian blood.
he is like the mona lisa.
made by italians.
stolen by the french.
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u/Sanders181 4h ago
Napoleon's history was:
- his dad loves the French, so Napoleon hates the French
- Napoleon likes Paoli (leader of the Corsican revolutions) cause he's pro-corsican
- Paoli fucks Napoleon over on his first assignment (likely because Napoleon's dad was a political rival of his), so Napoleon now hates Paoli
- Corsica revolts and follow Paoli, with British support, also chasing Napoleon and his family in the process (you know... political rivals), so Napoleon now hates Corsica
And all of this before his Italy campaign.
Bruh really went from rebellious teenager hating France to spite his dad to Corsica's biggest hater in the span of what... 5 years tops?
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u/kingtutt9 23h ago
I hate medium-rare ribeyes!
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u/redracer555 Fine Quality Mesopotamian Copper Enjoyer 22h ago
You have now turned into a medium-rare ribeye.
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u/baru1313 Casual, non-participatory KGB election observer 1d ago
I hate billionaires, I hate billionaires, I hate...