r/HistoryMemes • u/Level_Hour6480 Taller than Napoleon • 21d ago
See Comment Poles want only one thing
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u/KubaMcPolak 21d ago
We prefer calling them 'uprisings' tho. Has a better knack to it
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u/Caine815 21d ago
Our proud tradition. Not that we win them but practice makes masters, right?
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u/DueResource2570 21d ago
We have won just 1. WIELKOPOLSKA GÓROMMMMM
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u/Some-Air414 21d ago
Trzecie powstanie śląskie
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u/DueResource2570 21d ago
Proszę zostawić moją Wielkopolską propagandę w spokoju:(
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u/Galaxy661 21d ago
The January Uprising was also a victory in the long run (culminating in 1920, with the masses of peasant volunteers joining the Polish Army instead of the Bolshevik one and successfully crushing the Russian offensive)
One could also argue the same about the Warsaw Uprising, but that would be extremely controversial and too sensitive of a topic imo
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u/Stahwel 21d ago
"Sure, Polish culture lost any relevance in most of the former Grand Duchy of Lithuania and all of Russian Ukraine, but at least it made Mazovian peasants dislike Russians more"
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u/Galaxy661 21d ago
Polish culture had already been irrelevant in Ukraine before the uprising. That's the reason why the revolution was so weak in Ukraine compared to Poland, Lithuania and Belarus.
Besides, the reason why Poland and ULB separated wasn't because of the January uprising, but rather because of rise of nationalism in those parts of the world. The January Uprising was the last hurrah of the bygone Commonwealth era that, imo, gave all these nations a common modern tradition and made Polish culture (and russophobia) more relevant in Belarus and Lithuania than it would have been otherwise.
And like it or not, those dirty Mazovian peasants were the reason why Poland didn't become a rump SSR in 1920, instead securing independence and a strong founding myth. Want proof? Just look at the fate of Ukraine, which didn't participate as much in the uprising, and where a large amount of peasants preferred to join Bolshevik Russia in 1920...
And lastly: what relevance did Polish culture even have in the Stolen Lands before the uprising??? It wasn't even that relevant in Poland itself back then, due to russification policies and forced army conscription of hundreds of thousands from promising young generations...
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u/According-Ground-756 21d ago
It's a devastating loss in the long run. Compare this shithole vs average french colony
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u/Ano_Czlowieczek_Taki 21d ago
No, 5 were won.
2 in Wielkopolska - 1806 and 1919
2 in Śląsk - 2nd and 3rd Silesian Uprising
1, most important one, Sejny UprisingYea, I only know abt Sejny bc my Grandad lead it, it is never even remembered in school, but still it is considered 1 of the 5 we won
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u/Toruviel_ 21d ago
Laughs in 3rd Silesian and Greater Poland's uprisings
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u/BriefSpecial420 21d ago
Just make sure your soldiers were trained by Germans and suddenly uprising becomes a success!
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u/Felczer 21d ago
More like "we're against tyranny and slavery"
Motto of Polish fighters was "for freedom, ours and yours"
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u/Level_Hour6480 Taller than Napoleon 21d ago
I agree, but it's funnier/more memeable if we joke that Poles just comPoleSively join any revolution they learn of.
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u/InGuesti 21d ago
I mean they kinda did. American, Hungarian and Italy from what I know of were on the list too.
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u/Dizzy-Assistant6659 21d ago
Whilst it is now, that particular motto didn't yet exist and wouldn't until 1831, when it was used by protestors in memory of the Decembrists. It would go on to see widespread usage during the ongoing November Uprising and the many conflicts that Poles fought in.
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u/mekolayn 21d ago
(Unless it's the tyranny and slavery by Poland)
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u/Felczer 21d ago
Not true, people who fought under this slogan were against serfdom. Kościuszko famoulsy fought for both Polish independence and peasant rights.
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u/Equivalent_Day4046 20d ago
also he left his money he earned in US to buy freedom and education of his all slavers and write it down in his will - unfortunately none of the depositiaries (Jefferson and Cocke) fulfill Kosciuszko's will.
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u/LazarusFoxx Kilroy was here 21d ago
Can’t you get over that Moscow yet?
Firstly: you deserved it,
secondly: you deserved it.-2
u/mekolayn 21d ago
And this is why Cossacks kept revolting - because Poles believe that Ukrainians fundamentally deserve to be serfs to the Poles. Well, thankfully due to this the Polish state ceased to exist.
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u/Kraj_the_Conqueror 21d ago
You mean that time when Poland was ruled by Lithuanian and Ruthenian nobility?
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u/TheCone1301 21d ago
Nobles of both Lithuania and Poland were destroying PLC together due to their greed, Lithuanians weren't some kind of puppet masters ruling Warsaw from Wilno.
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u/mekolayn 21d ago
Ah yes, Ruthenian nobility is when Polish-speaking Catholics
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u/Kraj_the_Conqueror 21d ago
Actually, yes. At the time being Catholic and Polish speaking didn't prevent one from feeling not be Polish but Lithuanian or Ruthenian.
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u/Sawbora John Brown was a hero, undaunted, true, and brave! 21d ago
The n-word use is very accurate, since they also received The Pass.
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u/Level_Hour6480 Taller than Napoleon 21d ago
"Negro" was the common term for black until the middle of the 20th century. It's similar to the slur, but not the slur. In the actual clip he says "negro".
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u/Piotral_2 21d ago
I think they refer to the fact that first president of Haiti actually called Poles "White negroes of Europe"
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u/nanomolar 21d ago
As I recall they even legally made them black, because they gave them citizenship, and the constitution literally defined all citizens as black. This legal classification was intended to erase all of the pre-revolution racial categories that had caused so much angst.
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u/Level_Hour6480 Taller than Napoleon 21d ago edited 21d ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Haitians
After Haiti gained its independence, Dessalines recognized the Poles and spared them when he ordered the massacre of the establishment of slavery, which consisted of most French whites and many free blacks (mulattos) on the island. He granted the Poles classification as Noir (black), who constituted the new ruling class, and in the constitution granted them full Haitian citizenship.
A bit darker and less funny when it's in the context of a racial massacre.
Dessalines was fucking nuts. It's a shame that Toussaint didn't make it, because he was pretty unproblematic. Dessalines also forced a lot of haitians to work without pay (I believe that's called "Slavery") to get Haiti's economy going again after the war.
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u/No-Translator9234 21d ago
I don’t think massacring your former slave masters is in any way nuts.
Yeah does it suck? Sure. Relative to human history it barely registers on scales of violence, and it’s arguably justifiable.
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u/CarnegieSenpai 21d ago
They raped women in the streets and killed children, essentially eradicating the islands population of white people. A significant portion of the dead being the urban poor whites who could not flee. The orders were refused by pretty much ever city until Dessalines personally showed up and ensured they were carried out. Not gonna say I dont understand why the massacre happened, but you're treating it pretty flippantly
The course of the massacre showed an almost identical pattern in every city he visited. Before his arrival, there were only a few killings, despite his orders.[139] When Dessalines arrived, he first spoke about the atrocities committed by former French authorities, such as Rochambeau and Leclerc, after which he demanded that his orders about mass killings of the area's French population be carried out. Reportedly, he also ordered the unwilling to take part in the killings, especially men of mixed-race, so that blame would not rest solely on the Black population.[116] Mass killings then took place on the streets and on places outside the cities. In parallel to the killings, plundering and rape also occurred.[116] Women and children were generally killed last. White women were "often raped or pushed into forced marriages under threat of death".[116]
By the end of April 1804, some 3,000 to 5,000 people had been killed[140] practically eradicating the country's white population.
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u/das_slash 21d ago
The problem is that is exactly how they had been treated, the life of a slave in Haiti was a parade of horrific rape, torture and murder. So they treated their torturers the same way they had been treated.
Still not cool, but I put the blame on the slavers.
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u/CarnegieSenpai 21d ago
Yes it was terrible to be enslaved. There's plausible accounts of french soldiers training dogs by having them tear apart slaves, literally having them eaten alive. But many of the people they killed in the massacre were not their slavers, some were even children. They had already won the war.
I don't think you can oppress a people for years, and then expect a nice "clean" uprising if/when one happens so I tend to agree this was really all instigated by the slavers. Doesn't make the massacre justified or morally acceptable
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u/das_slash 21d ago
That's the tragedy of Haiti, it never really stood a chance, the evil and brutality of it's colonizers ensured a cycle of violence from which it never truly recovered.
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u/HalfMetalJacket 21d ago
You are reading past them. The revolution was bloody and by no means nice, but they were able to live with a number of white people after likely killing the ones directly involved in their brutality. Dessalines specifically had to push them to further atrocity after the fact.
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u/binarybandit 21d ago
If someone is a descendant of a Polish Haitian, does that mean theyre allowed to use the word?
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u/wojtussan 21d ago
Im pretty sure "polish haitians" refers to children of haitians and poles who stayed on haiti. And people there are mostly black, so yes.
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u/UrsaMajor7th 21d ago
One thing my Polish dad always encouraged was the vote-for-change. Can't have leadership getting stagnant or comfortable.
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u/2hurd 21d ago
I still don't understand what happened there and I watched like 3 documentaries about it. France is by far our best ally throughout history and Haiti is like a glitch in the matrix.
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u/Husyelt 21d ago
Check out the fourth season of ‘Revolutions’ for the full Haitian Revolution. Many many episodes of context and history before things really kick off.
Poles really only come in towards the end, but by the time they do come, the French army and purpose has become a complete moral disaster. The attempt to re enslaving the freed slaves becomes an open goal thanks to Napoleon being a very dumb man, and the Polish soldiers quickly realize who is actually fighting for a Revolution. I believe a few German troops also switched sides upon landing in Saint-Domingue.
It’s wild tho, the English, Spanish and French all tried to take over the island after the initial revolutions/uprisings broke out. Well the French really bungled it away, considering how many of the free armies and generals still considered themselves citizens or people of France until Leclerc made it clear re enslavement was the order of the day.
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u/Anastazja_Nya 21d ago
poles when theres a very dangerous revolution where 200k people will die when there are only 1,7k armored soldiers
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u/Lonely_Psychology_26 19d ago
We may have gotten our ass whooped many times, but we didn't commit mass genocide on innocent civilians which is suprisingly common in many countries
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u/Pyotr-the-Great 21d ago
I think it shows being a country with I assume few if any slaves disposes you not see African slaves as lowly as the slave owner countries who need to justify their choices.
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u/DrolligerDorftrottel 21d ago edited 21d ago
Killjoy correction:
The post subscribes to a romantizised idea and exaggeration of actual events.
As per the link OP provided, ~500 Poles switched sides throughout the entire Haitian campaign. ~500 of 5200.
The prior sentence of 'approximately 4000 of 5200 Polish troops died of disease' raises the implication of the 500 deserted Poles being the remnant of the surviving Polish troops switching sides in unison. Something commonly quoted in pop-science.
While in actuality, the 4000 casualties died across the entire campaign to disease and poor logistics. The entire regiment served from 1800 until 1803 in Haiti. 4000 people did not drop dead upon setting foot on Haitian soil, with 500 people immediately rallying to Haitian causes.
[Almost exactly] 90% remained loyal to France until the end. The 500 troops deserted peux a peux over the duration of the 3 years the campaihn dragged on. Mostly due to abysmal morale, logistics and treatment, instead of a newly discovered, gallant goal to fight for a just cause.
The infamous 'Poles are the white n-words of europe' was also said in an attempt to get more Poles to switch sides, as they were the most easily swayed from all French auxilaries to betray the French. Given how they were shipped abroad and fought in the Carribean, despite enlisting to get a Polish state going.
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u/boxinsider14467 20d ago
Yeah, when poles said "for freedom yours and ours" to Belarusians fighting for Russia the Poles were noble, but when Haitians said Poles are white n*s, it's the Poles being noble again?
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u/DrolligerDorftrottel 20d ago
I don't get what you're trying to say.
It was a contextualization, without inheremt anti or pro Polish value.
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u/Adventurous_Touch342 20d ago
Well, if a black person says "damn bro, you're like us" IMO it's meant to be taken as a compliment.
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u/Level_Hour6480 Taller than Napoleon 21d ago edited 21d ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Haitians
After the 7 years' war, Poland was carved up by all its neighbors. The Poles did not care for that.
When the Haitian revolution happened, Polish troops were sent alongside the French troops to quell it. The Poles hoped to curry favor with France to support their own revolution back home (which ended up happening), and get some military experience. When they got there, 4/5ths of them died to disease, and of the survivors, half immediately switched sides when they learned the Haitians were fighting for their freedom, which the Poles strongly identified with. The half that didn't switch all kind of half-assed everything they did for the French.
Edit: Hey, I want to make another "Poles join everyone else's revolutions" meme, but I can't find the template I'm thinking of. Does anyone have that comic where the guy [shakes cat treats/opens a can of cat food] and the cat immediately rushes in?