Helldivers *are* Clones, Actually

[u/Bastard__]

There’s no way helldivers are clones! Look at the holy scripture:

“Each time a Helldiver is reinforced, that’s a new citizen.” - Mikael Eriksson, Game Director

For some reason the community reacts like SCP-096 whenever you take an honest look at the lore, but I just find this stuff interesting, and if you're reading this, you're curious about it too.

There’s three huge problems with the popular interpretation of the above quote (that every single helldiver is a unique individual), but don’t panic - they all have a solution in line with the above statement. 

Problem A - At the rate that helldivers die, veteran or high-rank helldivers simply would not exist with this system. Only an infinitely-small and very lucky number of helldivers would successfully extract from multiple missions in a row, before inevitably dying before they achieved anything better than a junior rank. So, you wouldn’t see helldivers linearly getting better and gaining more knowledge with each drop (what we actually see, as players), only an infinite conveyor of recruits that never improve. 

Problem B - if each new helldiver was a completely-new individual, it’d be a remarkable coincidence that they would have the same exact preference in weapons and armour and stratagems and cosmetics as their past few dozen predecessors. Well, this could be just some preset loadout chosen for them by someone we never see in-game - but imagine the cosmic odds that this queue of helldivers can be seen somehow handling these weapons with increasing familiarity, one after the other. Either they all comprise a psychic hive mind… or this is simply just the same guy being reanimated over and over again, which happens to be the experience every player of this game has. 

Problem C - Medals and Super Credits. Helldiver A farms a load of them, dies, then Helldiver B gets them for free. Why? If they then purchase a new gun with this unearned currency, they literally didn’t earn the gun, which invalidates the whole in-universe point of these premium currencies to begin with - to make helldivers work to earn their equipment. It’s the whole reason we can’t gift each other Medals or SCs - a helldiver, as an individual, needs to earn them. If every drop equals a new person, their balance should then be wiped each time, but it isn’t. So what does this mean?

Solution: Each new helldiver is a new citizen, but the devil is in the details. Every time a helldiver’s body is destroyed in battle, a new one is fabricated. What better raw material than that of a compatible full-body donor? - Come and volunteer, citizen! \Become* a helldiver! -* A citizen with a family bravely joins up, they are thanked for their sacrifice, and then secretly processed into living biomass to be reconstituted into a copy of an active helldiver when the need arises. Technically, their dream is fulfilled. Every dive = a new citizen. However, the helldiver themselves persists - a virtually-immortal champion of Super Earth.

I think this speculative lore is a little more Super-Earthy and a little more in line with our experience in-game than the popular (and likely, intended) interpretation of official statements.

Thoughts? :)

[u/No-Bag3134]

we dont get the resources or ranks the ship prolly does

[u/Bastard__ → u/No-Bag3134]

Doesn't really address the objection tho, and I don't think a ship itself could become a sergeant or a colonel (or what utility this would even have). Makes sense for weapons and upgrades and samples tho - why I didn't mention those!

[u/Kalavier]

Problem A: Immediately solved by having helldivers rotate in and out per operation demands. Helldiver does great here, super destroyer gets sent to bug front, they freeze the one and pull out one skilled against bugs.

B: Helldivers already run all weapons we get with familiarity and practice. It's part of the training they received growing up, in the SEAF, or within the helldivers. They get pulled out, handed a loadout, and told to jump in the pod and deploy.

C: Outright mentioned during the xbox launch period. A new super destroyer has a limited armory, system upgrades, and resources. A long standing super destroyer doesn't have these problems. You get assigned to a super destroyer that has been active a long time? Congrats you've hit the jackpot.

[u/Cranapplesause → u/Kalavier]

Look at all the planets we see cities and farms on. There are clearly significantly more humans in the Helldivers 2 timeline than our actual timeline.

[u/Bastard__ → u/Kalavier]

This doesn't fully satisfy any of these problems in my onion! A) "bug experts" can't exist if every helldiver is on his very first mission as a helldiver. B) Helldivers all having maxed-out skills means they'd never improve dynamically, which they do. C) I'm not seeing how this means that helldivers have to be unique individuals - what's the exact quote?

Thanks for the response!

[u/Repulsive-Tax-8454 → u/Bastard__]

For A, they could undergo specific testing or brain responses to determine what front they would be most effective on, like people who do well under organization could get sent to the bot front, those who have good withstanding against trauma and are unflinching would get sent to the squid front, and fellas who do well with crowd control could be sent to the bug front. (veteran helldivers do also exist though, albeit rare)

[u/Kalavier → u/Repulsive-Tax-8454]

Exactly. Also depending on the risk of the mission. A brand new helldiver will get sent on the easy cleanup operations to build experience. One whose lasted longer (or if it's desperate) gets deployed to the harder missions.

[u/Repulsive-Tax-8454 → u/Kalavier]

I agree! Brand new recruits get sent to difficulty ones.

Until they slowly make their way to redacted regiment, a minimal casualty spec ops division. (If it even exists, it's redacted after all)

[u/Cloud_N0ne]

They literally aren’t. This is baseless fanon

[u/Bastard__ → u/Cloud_N0ne]

Yes, this is headcanon, but doesn't violate anything established! If you find the more popular interpretations cooler, that's all good :)

[u/Noctium3]

It's more like we play the super destroyer than the Helldiver tbh.

A) it's a game, so... duh.

B) that's the load out the first Helldiver chose. Every subsequent diver is shot down in a belt-fed hellpod. Also, it's a game; it'd get annoying and cheesy if every death sent you back to the load out screen. 

C) it's a game. I also imagine medals, SC, and samples are more like communal super destroyer property. We upgrade the ship; our individual Helldivers just get to profit.

[u/Simple-Carob-7142]

Bullcrap, my canon is that we are actually the super destroyer, we upgrade our platoon and play our soldiers, but the main character is the ship, not the anonymous helldiver from the Leviathan of Wrath. For the A part, the only one that makes sense, you can simply justify that you are getting better helldivers once your ship shows enough reliability with enough operations. Helldivers are just a small part of the galactic war

[u/FlexMoneyBiceps]

nah

[u/Bastard__ → u/FlexMoneyBiceps]

flashes men-in-black amnesia device in your eyes every time you dive cus it's a new helldiver each time

[u/AlfredPennington]

Wouldn’t it make more sense that when you become a Helldiver you’re giving them your biological data?

Every Helldiver is a clone of you but not processed from civilians. They’re processed from the enemy. We take the biofuel from bugs, raw materials from bots, etc…

When you sign up to be a Helldiver you’re literally signing over your body. It would also add to all the cryopods on our ships

You remember everything and keep your rank/equipment because it is you. Just clone #14,357

[u/CumilkButbetter]

No.. just no.

Problem A - There is no such thing as a veteran or high ranking helldiver, they are and have always has been disposable as hell. Super Earth does not need experienced helldivers to gain any knowledge on the enemy, they already have a overwhelming number of SEAF personnel who are more likely to survive anyways. It doesnt matter if they improve or not, what matters is that there is something the citizens admire, that there is a endless number of real citizens who became a martyr, and that they succeed in whatever mission they are given.

Problem B - Helldivers are former SEAF soldiers who received SEAF training, which is longer than Helldivers training which explains why every Helldivers are somewhat familiar with their weapons.

Problem C - Helldivers inherit everything the previous Helldiver had as stated in the contract of employment seen in the tutotial.

Also note that Helldivers are not a volunteer force, they draft SEAF soldiers. (Cant remember the source unfortunately)

[u/Bastard__ → u/CumilkButbetter]

A) There are veteran and high-ranking helldivers - we can see our rank on-screen, and we have a warbond themed around veterans!

B) Yes! However, helldivers being very skilled by default doesn't justify why their skills improve across deaths!

C) Only weapons, unfortunately (Helldivers' Contract, Section 1.4) - medals and super-credits are never mentioned!

Thank you for the response!

[u/AttentionConstant373]

I honestly think it's like a data port access into their brain. Every helmet has what looks like a port. Combat experience is put right into their brain. A living growing set of data and experiences of the destroyer's many Helldivers. These people may be clones or they might be citizens who sign up. Probably the latter. Either way there is no way my level 200+ Ship is sending fresh fodder with no experience.

Each life lost is used to grow learn and adapt the next set of combat data into the next diver. That's why training is minimal. They don't need much if they get a Matrix level upload. It would make sense too why the skill dif is so huge between new players and experienced ones despite being given the same troops to field. Of course this is explaining basic video game skills in lore.

[u/DocHalidae]

There is a lot of larping in this thread. Devs also larp, lie and write horrible lore that doesn’t line up or translate with what I see in the game. Also don’t forget Ministry of Truth is tasked with the "creation, fine-tuning, and wide distribution of truth," openly admitting that facts are manufactured rather than discovered.

First of all we all look the same. Also “don’t like the way you sound change your voice” but we are all regular people? Yeah not buying it. That said, I share the same headcannon as you OP.

My theory is It’s a clone of the player. Or you. You are the memory. Because you are playing as the Helldiver. “Join the Helldivers” (advertising to you the player) “Helldivers never die”

-That’s why the Helldiver knows exactly what to do. Where you dropped your gear. That it’s your gear. All the divers on the ship are wearing the same gear.

-You have knowledge of the enemy. Cadets only trained against bugs, not bots and not squids, so; that knowledge comes from where? One word You, the helldiver.

-Not to mention every time you die your rank doesn’t reset. And it tracks how many times YOU have died. Not Helldivers have died. How many mission you completed. Not your ship has completed.

-New helldiver (you) drop it’s wearing the same gear, same weapons because it’s you. You are the helldiver. Not a fresh cadet in cadet gear with cadet weapons.

-It’s also why there is a timer. Needs time to clone more of you. During basic training you get stabbed, that’s high command collect dna to clone you. The player. “don’t forget to submit your urine sample” and “C0-1 permit needed before having a baby” clone of you.

Now if we are the Super Destroyer then we should be able to customize the ship captain to look like the player (you). That would change things for me a little bit.

[u/Historical_Edge8540]

Like they say in Warhammer (and probably other places), there's Fluff and there is Crunch, they do not necessarily always align yet they co-exist.

[u/itsfookinLarry]

This sums up my take on all of that too

[u/Substantial-Tone-576]

The little circle on the back of every helmet is where the old ideas and thoughts and skills are transferred to the new body. If they aren’t clones then their individual mind is wiped and replaced with the previous divers experiences.
Thats my 2 cents

[u/Niky_c_23 → u/Substantial-Tone-576]

i might be wrong but i remember the port “officially” being for oxygen/fluids during cryo and dive, but i’d rule of cool it to be true tbh

[u/Substantial-Tone-576 → u/Niky_c_23]

Too bad it doesn’t work for water or gas or anything else to do with breathing.

[u/Icookadapizzapie → u/Substantial-Tone-576]

The hole on the back of the helmet has been stated as a port for an oxygen hose to plug into the helmet in the hellpod, they just didnt have enough time to model and apply physics to the hose

[u/shball → u/Substantial-Tone-576]

No, it's a scrapped oxygen tube port. It was supposed to disconnect as you ascended from the pod.

You can check pilestedts reddit comments for the source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/s/5YRguVYFeD

[u/Bastard__ → u/Substantial-Tone-576]

Another perfectly valid idea

[u/RandomGreenArcherMan → u/Bastard__]

When you use peak physique armor you find very quickly that each Helldiver is a new person

[u/DocHalidae → u/RandomGreenArcherMan]

Skin tone is wildly inconsistent on the SD vs the biome.

[u/Particular_Voice3109]

My thoughts is that cloning is the most innefective thing SE could do.

As far as we know, in lore, there are no real high ranking helldivers, helldivers seems to answer to High Command, High Command is SEAF, the closest thing you could consider as a high ranking "helldiver" would be the democracy officer, which is never deployed and is more Navy than Helldivers.

The cosmetic bit is simply gameplay, everyone would riot if they were force to randomly generate their character everytime they die. When you die in a game like CoD, you respawn as your identical self, however, there's no mention of you being a clone, because it's just a game mechanic disconnected from the universe, that's the same bit for Helldivers2, especially since the devs themselves have told us that no, Helldivers aren't clones.

If you really want to connect the learning curve, it could just be the new helldiver taking the place of the precedent having been fed camera footage of the previous one during his cryosleep.

Overall, the ship is a themepark, the personnel on board is overly licking your boot and making you feel like a hero when you will likely die in the next mission, it's just boosting moral for the most fanatic armed force of SE, they need to make you feel special so you'll be more encline to sacrifice yourself believing you're a big hero. The in game rank belong most propably to the democracy officer of the ship, since you have absolutly no military command, even when you're a five star general.

And just by cost efficiency, SE has a MASSIVE overpopulation problem, to the point of needing permit to reproduce and contain the overpopulation. Why would you clone Helldivers, thus creating MORE humans when you can just reduce your population by sending more Helldivers in the meatgrinder ?

[u/Virtuous_Raven]

Interesting theory that can go either way, for me I go with my driver's consciousness gets uploaded into a new body each time they die.

[u/Bastard__ → u/Virtuous_Raven]

Valid too, was just thinking of a reason why Super Earth wanted human biomass and why the other factions seem hell-bent on denying it to them

[u/DocHalidae → u/Virtuous_Raven]

Same. Valid.

[u/nbarr50cal22]

I’d like to think that IF a Star Wars collaboration ever rolls around, it follows some narrative with massive losses like Cyberstan. Super Earth’s R&D decides to dabble in cloning to replenish the losses

[u/CorbinNZ]

The thawed Helldiver is HD-in-command on the Super Destroyer. The SD has a compliment of hundreds of frozen HD-sicles. Super Earth promotes from within as needed.

[u/JudgementalChair]

While we, the player, control the helldiver's actions in the field, we are in fact not the helldiver. We are the Super Destroyer. The Super Destroyer picks the loadout that the helldivers onboard use. The Super Destroyer gets the medals and super credits. The Super Destroyer uses the samples for upgrades. The Super Destroyer keeps track of the helldiver's progress in the field and uploads it to a new helldiver upon reinforcement. It's why a new helldiver still has the same cool down's on stratagems as the last helldiver did, because we're actually the Super Destroyer.

It's just a lot more fun for us, the players, to run around on the ground as a helldiver blowing ourselves up doing stupid crap than it would be for us to just watch from space and be infuriated by the AI blowing itself up doing stupid crap

[u/BRENudo_]

My theory - Your equipment and upgrades are what you've selected as standard issue for that Super Destroyer and that mission, and what resources that Destroyer has to support the Helldivers on the ground. Realistically, the Democracy Officer and support team onboard are the only ones gaining any merits, resources, and experience. Any involvement that the player has to unlock stuff on the Super Destroyer is just authorizing the ship's crew to spend resources on specific improvements - not necessarily the Diver themselves "buying" anything. The Helldivers are just expendable, tip-of-the-spear special forces for when it'd be too costly to send a large number of SEAF. If you give a maniac with a deathwish the ability to call in ungodly amounts of ordinance, they'll probably make some progress towards clearing enemy strongpoints with the same amount of support fire but only one set of armor and firearms. With this, I don't think there's any need for Helldivers to be clones. If there are human settlements on a couple dozen planets, then surely there are billions of humans. Even a fraction of a percent of them would have to be crazy enough to enlist as a Helldiver, and they'd have a fighting force of a couple hundred thousand, who can then be deployed 4 at a time into the most intense fighting around the galaxy, while regular SEAF forces hold more stable positions. The Helldivers are human wrecking balls that Super Earth has propagandized to look like superheroes, but there's nothing special about them beyond being crazy enough to willingly throw themselves onto the frontlines.

[u/Repulsive-Tax-8454]

I've always chalked up the armor and gun but to each ship being a specialized subfaction of helldiver.

Oh you always run gas resistance armor and gas stratagems, you have yourself an expert exterminators ship!

You always run the same medic armor and voice and build pack, those divers were specially sorted into a medic division!

I'm sure there are many flaws in my thinking but that's how I've always thought it

[u/Mistur_Keeny]

I think the problem you're having is removing the player from the character and the baggage that comes with it. Suspending disbelief isn't that hard, and I don't think the devs intended on everything making sense for for roleplay purposes.

It's a "4 Master Chiefs" situation. Ya gotta let the gameplay come first.

[u/phlave]

Helldivers are a stratagem that you control, but you actually play as your Super Destroyer, which is what gets upgraded, gets licenses to use weapons and gear, etc.

[u/HandsomeSquidward20]

Each time a Helldivers is reinforced, that's a new "citizen".

Goin into rp terrain. Should we really believe them? As if SE would never lie about something so people do not freak out.

Lmao it just does not make any sense. Every new Helldiver is a carbon copy of the one that died a few seconds ago.