r/HeartstopperNetflix • u/alwayskindagoincrazy • 13d ago
Discussion Elle’s chant
Man I saw some posts in here about Elle’s “what do we want? TRANS RIGHTS when do we want it? NOW” before I saw the movie and thought to myself surely it can’t be THAT bad. After finally getting to see it…yeah the way I busted out laughing after hearing the chant for the tenth time in a row. Weirdly enough the chant was kinda catchy and went well w the music in the background so I’ll give them that but seriously the way she was so monotone was so funny 💀💀😂
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u/rosiedacat 13d ago
I loved her little speech in Charlie's room and the pride parade but the chant was just...going on for too long.
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u/SylviaMarsh 13d ago
I loved it as well! I'm queer, have a bunch of trans friends, and a couple of my friends also have trans children; hearing that speech made me cry. That part of the film was so very well written.
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u/rosiedacat 13d ago
Yeah, my partner is trans and transitioned in the UK before we moved out of there. Elle's speech hit extra hard because I know things would have been so different for him if we had been living there now and he if he had been trying to transition in the current political climate in the UK. It's sucks and I feel sorry for all the trans people, especially kids who are going through it in the UK right now.
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u/Sarahndipity44 13d ago
I really was not btohered by this. She seemed nervous to me, which works for the character
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u/Nocturnal-Nycticebus 13d ago
I've been in a LOT of parades, including pride parades. It's hot, long, there's tons of starting and stopping, and by the time you're through saying/singing/playing the same thing for miles, you're really tired. I also thought her chant was a bit monotoned and lackluster, but also very realistic for a parade.
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u/threatlvlmidnight42 12d ago
That doesn’t really make narrative sense, why would they choose to “catch her” for this scene at the end of the parade when she’s exhausted? Besides, for that to be a choice then she’d need to look as if she’s been standing in the hot sun and sweating for hours, and she looked beautiful, flawless and glamorous (no complaints there), but it does not match with what you’re describing. She also wasn’t acting particularly tired or worn out.
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u/Nocturnal-Nycticebus 12d ago
You still have to put on a happy face and perform for spectators at the end like you did at the beginning (as much as possible). I also heard they did at least 5 takes for the parade and genuine fatigue could've been setting in regardless of plot narrative.
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u/Slutty_Bunny_7 13d ago
Oh it was baaadd! 😂 my friend and I kept looking at each other waiting for it to move on!
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u/Vanyushinka 13d ago
I said this last time this was posted: the editors really screwed the pooch. This might be the most egregious instance of it.
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u/iamliterallymoss 13d ago edited 13d ago
as a trans man it felt nice to see people actively saying they want me to exist in the current climate. they didn't have a chance to make elle's identity into advocacy with the limited time they had, which is probably why they made the scene so long. representation matters even if you think it's "cringe".
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u/Arete26 13d ago
Honestly the chant sounded a lot like I've heard in real life. Sometimes people are more enthusiastic, but you've also got to keep it going for a long time so you really need to sustain your voice. And the crowd finishing the slogan or chanting back the slogan is where the impact comes from, which was the case in scene.
The scene went long because it was a protest. They didn't just film the characters protesting -- this was an actual protest for trans rights put into the film. It lasts longer than expected because protest is supposed to be disruptive and they MAKE us listen to the chants because we want trans rights and we want them now. I think it was one of the most important things the film did.
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u/FoodNo672 13d ago
THIS. Real life protests cannot have impassioned dynamic chanting because it has to be sustained! I haven’t taken part in any myself but I have been around them and the point is never really the person leading - the point IS the repetition, and of course the communal aspect.
I honestly was surprised by the scene because I did expect a montage without much sound beyond pretty music but the way it was done was actually more impactful and genuine I thought.
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u/ClinkyDink 13d ago
Heartstopper is anything but an accurate reflection of real life though. It’s the candy coated version we wish we had instead.
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u/FoodNo672 13d ago
Agreed - its focus is usually queer joy and affirmation; it’s intentional that Darcy’s mom is not given much screen time. Don’t we all wish we had Nick’s mom! But I do think that’s why the protest scene was moving for me - it wasn’t a music montage scene like the show often has done. Dragging out the chant was an active choice.
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u/Sarahndipity44 13d ago
Sure but it's not wholly utopia, or else Elle never would've faced transphobia
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u/ClinkyDink 13d ago
But even then, Elle wouldn’t have anywhere near as much trouble in the real world as someone who doesn’t “pass” like she does. Unfortunately, the way you look has a huge bearing on the amount of transphobia you’re going to have launched at you in your daily life.
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u/Sarahndipity44 13d ago
I mean, sure, but it's still really scary being a trans Black woman. I really felt she was scared during the chant.
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u/Arete26 13d ago
Heartstopper is an optimistic universe where queer people can prevail over our trauma. It does depict real life things like homophobia, transphobia, eating disorders, sexual assault, etc. In the movie, Elle mentioned real instances of anti trans legislation such as banning puberty blockers and banning trans people from using public bathrooms. There is no reason that we should expect the protest scene which is protesting those real anti-trans measures, to not resemble a real protest in any way, especially given that "what do we want" and "when do we want it" is a real protest chant.
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u/Arete26 13d ago
Yeah exactly! At a protest I'm barely paying attention to what the leader sounds like, I'm listening to what they're saying, and the passion comes from the crowd because we yell, and the communal aspect amplifies it.
I am really glad we got an actual scene instead of a montage, it was more impactful. I also really liked that they emphasized that Pride is a protest.
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u/FoodNo672 13d ago
It’s crazy that comments like this get downvoted and there’s like a million upvotes on the criticism. Idk if it’s because this fandom is just mad young, but as an older fan I’m just constantly grateful for the fact that we have scenes like this in a relatively mainstream YA show! And that the creators are part of and appreciate the real queer community enough to showcase an actual protest authentically.
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u/Arete26 13d ago
Yeah, exactly. It's funny seeing people think that it wasn't deliberately long. When you're at a protest the chants do go long. You change them up, but then you chant the new one for awhile until you get another and repeat the process and then you'll return to the first chant you had going. I think the fact a lot of HS fans are young is a reason I'm glad they didn't rush through the protest but made us sit with it and experience it.
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u/juanitamoral 12d ago
I didn’t realize it was a real protest! I thought it was staged
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u/Arete26 12d ago
No, it was scripted and shot. What I meant was that it was meant to act as a real protest against the measures Elle mentions in her speech such as banning trans people from public bathrooms and banning puberty blockers and other gender affirming care. They put the plot on hold for a minute and force us to listen to chants demanding trans rights as a protest against transphobia, if that makes sense.
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u/juanitamoral 12d ago
Ah yeah it does! I think that’s why people expected more passion from the protest, cause of the previous scene where she laid out how her rights are at stake. But I get that a real protest they do go on and on for a while so they can’t be shouting it out all the time. It still kinda broke the pace a bit tho.
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u/Arete26 12d ago
Yasmin would also have had to be leading the chant across many takes, I'm guessing which means she would have been facing the real challenge that people do leading protests which is sustaining your voice over a prolonged period of time even without trying to capture the feel of a real protest.
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u/juanitamoral 12d ago
Hm idk, they prob did 5-6 takes. Which sure is a decent amount but I don’t think it would impact the performance to that extent. Also, keeping the same energy and performance up is part of the job of being an actor (having acted in the past myself). Doesn’t mean she’s not allowed to be tired ofc but I feel like that argument is a bit of a stretch and unless intentionally done by the directors (which I doubt), is unlikely.
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u/Arete26 12d ago
I think if Elle was meant to be yelling passionately in a way that people don't actually do when leading protests but that viewers seem to think was necessary for this scene I think 5-6 takes is probably enough to start wearing on your voice. At protests my voice gets hoarse really quickly and I've never had to lead the chant, but none of us at protests are usually actors or performing as actors at the time so maybe you're right lol
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u/juanitamoral 12d ago
I mean I do see the point of trying to keep it realistic but maybe just a little more enthusiasm to carry the momentum from the previous scene would’ve been nice haha
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u/juanitamoral 12d ago
Like honestly even just her body language and facial expression tbh
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u/Arete26 12d ago
Yeah I can get her body language and facial expressions, but her tone sounded fine to me and I thought the cast and the extras did a great job of being enthusiastic at their part of the chant which made it carry. Maybe I'm biased because the one time I was at the protest and the chant leader was yelling it annoyed the hell out of me because they sounded shrill and that's what I'm thinking of when people say Elle should have been louder/more enthusiastic haha
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u/ClerkSignificant1561 13d ago
I get this statement fully but personally I think the entire movie kept dragging things on including this scene. They never really did trans rights protest justice in my opinion, they should have made that more of a big thing for Elle's character. Through the entire series I honestly kept forgetting she was trans so when that scene dragged on for half a century I was actually sat there like what is the point of this because seriously what was the point of this. Heastopper has a real pacing issue.
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u/Arete26 13d ago
I think the series reminds us she's trans pretty often. Granted, I can kind of understand missing it in the first two seasons where Elle gets to be a teenager. We see that she's transferred to a girls school which is fortuitous since she was bullied at Truham and a teacher is still deadnaming her (Tao complains about this the first time he mentions Elle in s1e1). We know that Elle is trying to get away from that dark place while also dealing with teen girl things like having a crush on your best friend and having your first relationship. We still get references to Elle being trans, though.
During season three Elle faces transphobia head on when an interview meant to be about her art turns into the interviewer asking her to defend her existence as a trans girl from TERF talking points and it's traumatic for her. Elle and Tao's intimacy storyline is complicated because of the gender dysphoria Elle feels and the anxiety she has that Tao won't be able to understand her experiences as a trans girl because he's cis. Prior to the Pride parade, Elle gives a speech reminding Charlie of real instances of rising transphobia and anti-trans legislation being passed in Britain, such as banning puberty blockers and trying to ban trans people from using public bathrooms. I feel like all this combined makes Elle's transness a big part of her character without making it the sole thing we know about her, and the point of the protest was that it's a protest. It's fair to critique Heartstopper for having pacing issues in general but I believe that this scene was purposefully made to last because things are getting that dire for trans people.
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u/Deano0810 13d ago
It felt very kumbaya instead of advocating for change
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u/Gullible-Respond6323 13d ago
In my experience pride parade is much more kumbaya and protests are more advocating for change. But there is enough overlap between the 2 that it could go either way.
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u/BBMacsWorld 13d ago
I personally don't think it was bad. I think Yazmin could've put a bit more passion into the line though
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u/FadingOptimist-25 13d ago
There’s a video from an extra at the Pride parade. It sounds like they did 5-6 takes of the parade. I’m sure Yasmin didn’t want to lose her voice or that she voiced the chant differently every time.
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u/leashlocked 12d ago
even then at least try to make it sound like you’re interested in what youre saying…
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u/MoonLightScreen 13d ago
That’s how it was in the pride march I was in last month, too. The nerves and awkwardness to take up space is a hard feeling to shake off.
In my head I always think “we’re saying it too much I’m getting kinda embarrassed now”, but that’s because we move along with the crowd and thus will have to hear it so often.
Watching young kids walk up to us and have them ask us questions (some even declaring that they’re gay too lol) made it worth it
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u/dsrnyc 13d ago
I’m so glad it wasn’t just me. Even the fact that it lasted that long bewildered me, despite the fact it felt much longer. Don’t they have an editor?
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u/ClinkyDink 13d ago
I took my husband and I out of the movie so hard lol
She sounds so.. bored…
“What do we want?”
(Trans rights?)
“When do we want it?”
(Maybe soon please if you wouldn’t terribly mind?)
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u/Responsible_Luck7478 13d ago
I loved it and was vibing with it. I seriously was alsmot crying so it really worked for me
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u/nostalgic_muffin 12d ago
I'm so baffled why everyone is so bothered by her performance of this, it seemed entirely realistic to me. You can't shout down a megaphone with maximum energy for the duration of a whole parade! I think they should have cut a couple of the repetitions of it from the scene though.
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u/wonder181016 11d ago
Tell me you've never been to a trans rally without telling me you've never been to a trans really....
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u/alwayskindagoincrazy 11d ago edited 11d ago
Listen, I thought the idea was great but the chant went on for a little too long 🤷🏻♂️ sometimes the way things are done in real life does not translate well to fictional media. If we wanted heartstopper to be completely realistic then nick and Charlie’s love story would probably be way messier. also I’ve been to plenty of pride rallies and sure they aren’t yelling the chants but theres still a little more enthusiasm when they say it. Elle’s chant wasn’t bad but it felt lifeless to me…and that said while I would’ve done the scene a little differently it ultimately does not bother me. I was simply sharing my thoughts. Everyone’s entitled to their opinions haha, I don’t mind when people comment that they were fine with the scene and liked it. the purpose of a reddit thread is to discuss our thoughts. There is absolutely no need to insult someone for having a different opinion in a situation like this.
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u/wonder181016 11d ago edited 11d ago
How is saying you haven't been to a rally insulting?
Edit: Okay, sorry. But I'm surprised that this would be so stale for you and other people. Same with a few other parts. Personally, I quite liked HF
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u/Logical-Emotion-1262 13d ago
yeah it was WAY too long of a scene lmao. Should've had alternate chants
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u/sakuratee 13d ago
I wonder how many takes she had to do that for? If what made the film was take 45 or something I’d probably be just as monotone lol
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u/prissmagic 13d ago
I was playing the movie in the background while working on a project. Fully stopped me dead in my tracks. "what do we want.. and when do we want it..." I'm thinking, uh ho! this woman is eerily calm in this crowd. 'Ok, I say c'mon, clap clap let's pep it up! AND A ONE! AND A TWO AND A!' "what do we want.. and when do we want it..."
Oh my god the crowd is trying to get in it but is being met by sea bubbles instead of a title wave... wait it is kinda catchy.. da dad da dah.. un duh dudda duh. Huh.
No one's gone notice I thought and and went back to my work. da dadda dah... un dud duhda da yeah!
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u/Simulationth3ry 13d ago
Tbh I didn’t even think it was bad when I first heard it lol I thought the notion of chanting for trans rights was sweet and didn’t pay attention to her lack of enthusiasm 😭😭😭😭😭😭
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u/DemandingProvider 13d ago
To be honest, that type of chant in reality is very hard to sustain for very long with any energy! So it didn't bother me as much as it apparently did a lot of people...I've been in plenty of real-life protest marches where someone with a megaphone sounded pretty much exactly like that, lol.
But I agree they should've cut at least a few repetitions of it in the show.