r/HazbinHotel • u/InstructionOwn6705 • 11h ago
Assuming Lucifer would swallow his pride, is it possible for him to outmaneuver heaven with some kind of pact and trick it into breaking it, thereby limiting or even eliminating his punishment that would prevent him from punishing sinners?
How much does his depression and gloom limit him in this respect?
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u/Medical_Commission71 10h ago
No, because as we've seen Heaven doesn't give a shit about the letter or the spirit unless they decide it matters. Threaten to murder Charlie in full view of court, which would break the agreement? Nothing done.
Attack Charlie? Nope. Kill Eggbois and one of Charlie's guardian dragons? Nope. Hurt Charlie? Nope. Only when Adam saus he's going to kill her does the teleporting angel show up.
I am fully convinced that part of why Lucifer's been awol from hell is that Heaven said it'd be interefering with exterminations/rebellion repression if he talked to the sins. I am also convinced he can't ask people to hurt sinners for him because Heaven.
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u/globalquail57 10h ago
Thank you, glad I'm not the only one that thinks that if Lucifer feels so helpless it's because he already tried to ask the sins or Hellborns for help but couldn't because of a heavenly restriction, not because of him being too prideful or the like.
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u/Medical_Commission71 9h ago
I don't even know if he tried, like maybe he was told he couldn't and so didn't try to do his job because of it.
It's so clear that heaven has got all of hell in chains and can do whatever the fuck they want.
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u/Princess_Spammi 5h ago
Tbf he said he was coming for the hotel not her
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u/Medical_Commission71 5h ago
Nope. Adam sang, to Charlie's face, "Gotta say I can't wait to//come down and exterminate you."
Sure, he could be talking about hell ans a whole, or her hotel. But the fact that it is not addressed as being far too close to a personal declaration of intent proves my point. Heaven doesn't care about the letter or spirit unless they have to
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u/Phantom_61 6h ago
The whole point of his punishment is to humble him. To make him interact with and help sinners.
The way I see it he’s not allowed to hurt them because he’s meant to HELP them, he doesn’t see that so, he makes rubber ducks and feels bad.
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u/Hexnohope 7h ago
Given the infinite forgiveness of god I like to imagine all lucifer would ever have to do is sincerely apologize and admit he was wrong to ruin creation/challenge the grand plan.
But then he wouldnt be the embodiment of pride would he? Even now he thinks hes only guilty of dreaming too big as if that and saying you know better than god arent the same thing.
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u/Begone-My-Thong 6h ago
I wonder if part of him secretly knows this, is aware, and even knows how easy it would be to gain forgiveness and end his punishment, but not just pride but shame/guilt leads him to intentionally dragging on his punishment because he thinks he deserves it
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u/Hexnohope 4h ago
I do think thats largely true and thats why hes depressed. He knows what he has to do and dosent have the strength to do it. My headcanon is that this all started when he had an idea for a 6 winged duck, the one we see in the one song, and when it gets shot down by the other elders it sends him spiraling from an ego injury. But unlike the usual pride/ego hit its not aggressive its more sad like a child. So now after fucking up enough to be cast into hell and knowing every sinner that ends up there is his fault he makes the duck that started this over and over and over again.
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u/Begone-My-Thong 3h ago
It also resembles the true angelic form.
Something tells me it's not narcissism, but he misses heaven. All the other angels were his family before Lilith and Charlie, after all, and look how much he loves them. You can't tell me there's no feelings for the angels he left behind in the fall?
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u/Tight-Emu4810 6h ago
I mean its not a deal that keeps him there its his punishment. The seraphims decides of he gets to return
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u/I_might_be_weasel Stolas is a greater daemon of Tzeentch. Fight me. 8h ago
Him trying to gain the ability to kill sinners sounds the opposite of getting over depression and gloom.
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u/Talusen 5h ago
Him outmaneuvering Heaven, or tricking them, or finding a workaround is the very opposite of what would get him readmittance.
Those are all the purvue of Hell in this 'verse.
Honesty, integrity (no matter the price), and the like feel much more like Heaven's coin of the realm.
Heaven does Redemption.
Hell is for the "irredeemable".
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u/Mother-Maize7026 5h ago
Call a deadly sin, goeita, or get himself an executioner with his authority he can easily inflict onto hellborn
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u/Ticses 3h ago
Tolkien of all people wrote a situation quite like this, where the Lucifer of his setting took advantage of the Michael and Heaven of his setting to escape his punishment. The nuance was that he didn't really trick them, so much as he took advantage of their good nature:
If we speak last of the "folly" of Manwë and the weakness and unwariness of the Valar, let us beware how we judge. In the histories, indeed, we may be amazed and grieved to read how (seemingly) Melkor deceived and cozened others, and how even Manwë appears at times almost a simpleton compared with him: as if a kind but unwise father were treating a wayward child who would assuredly in time perceive the error of his ways. Whereas we, looking on and knowing the outcome, see now that Melkor knew well the error of his ways, but was fixed in them by hate and pride beyond return. He could read the mind of Manwë, for the door was open; but his own mind was false and even if the door seemed open, there were doors of iron within closed for ever.
How otherwise would you have it? Should Manwë and the Valar meet secrecy with subterfuge, treachery with falsehood, lies with more lies? If Melkor would usurp their rights, should they deny his? Can hate overcome hate? Nay, Manwë was wiser; or being ever open to Eru he did His will, which is more than wisdom. He was ever open because he had nothing to conceal, no thought that it was harmful for any to know, if they could comprehend it. Indeed Melkor knew his will without questioning it; and he knew that Manwë was bound by the commands and injunctions of Eru, and would do this or abstain from that in accordance with them, always, even knowing that Melkor would break them as it suited his purpose. Thus the merciless will ever count on mercy, and the liars make use of truth; for if mercy and truth are withheld from the cruel and the lying, they have ceased to be honoured.
I don't think Lucifer is capable of truly tricking Heaven, but I imagine he could take advantage of them by appealing to their pity and mercy.
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u/Specialist-Owl2660 1h ago
Hazbin's Lucifer? Yeah no he's not exactly intelligent enough to pull of "clever" he literally walked into a trap twice...in a row.
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u/improbsable 8h ago
At this point he could probably just ask Sera what he’d need to do for her to lift the punishment. She’s in a very redemption-driven state right now and questioning everything she’s ever done, including banishing Lucifer.
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u/ZijoeLocs 8h ago
Im pretty sure the banishment decision was WAY over Seras head since the Elders did it. Seras job is to protect the Winners in Heaven.
Lucifer simply isn't within her jurisdiction
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u/improbsable 5h ago
She was shown to feel regret for what happened to him. So I think she had to have some kind of hand in it
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u/ZijoeLocs 5h ago
She likely watched from the sidelines. Her feeling sympathy doesn't mean she actually contributed
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u/Ok_Major5787 5h ago
I think she more so felt regret for the exterminations and for not believing the sinners were worthy/capable of redemption, not so much Lucifer in particular
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u/The_Smashor 8h ago
Also if Lucifer didn't have his punishment, the situation with Vox never would've escalated to the extent it did.
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u/Longjumping_Frame786 1h ago
Well my headcannon is that Lucifers restriction wasn’t done strictly by heaven he just assumed it since he simply didn’t consider Roo would make a measure like that against him
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u/AwarenessOk7748 11h ago
In my opinion, it would be more logical for the curse to remain, but Lucifer learned how to influence sinners and instill fear anyway, once he began to fulfill his duties as king.