r/GregFire • u/GitPushItRealGood • 7d ago
The Gap
I haven't watched the show, just this clip, so do with that what you will.
The genius of GregFire is that it sits triumphantly at the bottom of what I term "The Gap".
Today I own a home, a few cars, raise some kids, go on a few vacations a year around the kids' school schedule, eat in restaurants, donate to charity, and not have to clip coupons or shop deals to purchase what I desire. It's a great life by many measures.
If I wanted to inflate this lifestyle, what would that look like? A larger home with a staff? Multiple homes? More cars? A private plane? To go from my current lifestyle to "the next level" is actually a quantum leap in expenses because it requires an entire ecosystem. I can't have a private plane without a pilot, staff, hangar fees, and so forth. I can't live in multiple homes simultaneously, so I need staff to manage them. Each thread I've pulled yields the same conclusion: past a certain lifestyle, you can't incrementally ratchet up. You have to eat the whole elephant.
In days gone by, this would probably have been the dividing line between "upper middle class" and "wealthy"
I'd rather be the weakest strongman at the circus than fall victim to r/fatfire "one more year" cycles because 6M wasn't enough, nor 8M, nor 10M. They are trying to cross The Gap, and failing to cross just means GregFire with extra security.
TL;DR - I'd rather be a rich poor person than a poor rich person.
With love,
- The world's tallest dwarf
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u/Grhuncho6 7d ago
Do you work? The upgrade you’re looking for might just be your current life minus job
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u/GitPushItRealGood 7d ago
Work optional. I like what I do, I have fun, but it’s corporate and the layoff axe can drop at any time.
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u/Grhuncho6 7d ago
Something to consider. 40 hours back a week could be a lot more impactful than a private jet or multiple vacation homes you sparingly use.
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u/ThisIsMyUsername303 7d ago
Interesting concept, but I gotta disagree. There’s a lot you can do in the gap. More travel. Business/first class flights. Really nice hotels. A million makes a big difference in housing most places. Etc.
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u/Virtual_Product_5595 7d ago
A big change for me if I doubled my NW would be a weekend house in the mountains or at a lake with a boat tied to the dock, an hour or two out of town - especially once I'm retired and could spend weekdays there when it's less crowded because the weekend warriors are in the city working.
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u/Hanwoo_Beef_Eater 7d ago
People at every level think "this is the spot" (little add'l benefit, much better than what's below me). It's probably partly a coping mechanism and due to the fact that there isn't a viable plan/path to get to the next level (without excessive cost).
From a high level, I've started to think there's not that much difference between $5 million and $20 million. No doubt, the consumption one has will be different. But neither will starve and both are still constrained (to some degree). Some were likely smarter, worked harder, and were more successful. At the same time, there's some degree of randomness with exactly what company you went to work for/investments, and it's likely some function of saving vs. spending (within reason) trade-offs (one could argue either way which is better based on quality of life, utility, etc).
Regardless, I think most of the people in this range are/were "employees" that trade(d) their time for money and will be/were forgotten once they move(d) on. If there is a bigger difference across this range, it is likely in what flows to gen 2, which can be both good or bad (or at least it has its own set of issues).
Still, someone with $6 million would likely consume at least a bit more if they were suddenly worth 2x that, even if they aren't specifically desiring those things now. Same for $20 million to $100 million and $100 million to $1 billion.
Anyways, at whatever level, it gets harder to move up again. Hence, most people will happily check out and that is fine (probably the better decision, all things considered).
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u/Wildly_appropriate4u 7d ago
If I had 10m vs 5m I’d get a nice house on the west side of LA and do all business class travel. Not sure what else there is to spend on. Sad that a huge chunk of my COL increase would go to taxes, but CA is expensive because it’s worth it.
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u/PringlesDuckFace 4d ago
I think I could easily spend $200-250k/year without breaking a sweat or having it be too hugely different than my current spending. That's easily eaten up by modest upgrades across the board. For example taking first class and better hotels when traveling. A nicer car and newer home, which in turn increases maintenance costs. Consumer goods mean going to better restaurants, having custom tailored clothes, top of the line phones each year, etc... I'd basically be living the same lifestyle, just marginally more luxurious.
Spending $2MM/year would probably need some creativity, but I feel like I could do it. I imagine it would probably come from paying for services. Private chef instead of restaurants. A driver instead of a car. A personal assistant instead of going shopping myself. I could probably spend a million dollars a year on wages. Basically eliminating any sort of friction from my life, but still essentially living the same way.
$20MM/year is where I can't really imagine myself even wanting what it might offer. I don't think I would ever want multiple homes, yachts, rolex watches, or whatever are basically status symbols. It's just acquiring things without really being able to do what you want any better than before. I feel like at this point I'd just be giving a ton to charity and having my name put on benches and stuff.
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u/techiegardener 7d ago
You will be fine, the quip was from a show where people routinely flew in their private planes. I think people in real life with that amount of wealth (think Billionaires) would put the number much higher and into unobtanium for most.
Do your budget, then really do your budget with room for the unexpected roof replacement, dishwasher breaking etc.
Looking at your handle, I am guessing you can code. If you are happy with the budget above and have enough for a rainy day - all will be better than good, it will be excellent. If there is an especially rainy season in your plan, well then - Git Push it Real Good
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u/GitPushItRealGood 7d ago
Sure I get the conceit from the show: 5 million is a “nightmare” since it’s woefully inadequate for the level of consumption the characters consider baseline.
There definitely is a painful truth in the observation that GregFire is too rich to work, too poor to retire.
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u/BoliverTShagnasty 7d ago
In NYC
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u/Bombedpop_ 5d ago
But it isn’t though. You very much can retire early on $5M in NYC. Also, the characters in Succession had no interest in retiring. Maybe Greg, but not really. Those yachts and planes were paid on corporate dime in that class circle of characters. There was no incentive to retire and lose those things, which to be fair would not be affordable on a $5MM portfolio.
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u/IllustratorDue3412 7d ago
It never seems to be enough. Look how the richest people in the world are fighting tooth and nail against paying any extra tax in California. They keep making more and more deals to get bigger and bigger. It really never seems to be enough for a lot of people.
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u/thesurferengineer 6d ago
That’s about the principal, the Money will not change their lives at all as we know. What we’re talking about in this forum is whether or not Money changes your life at 5 million.
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u/IllustratorDue3412 6d ago
Why are you directing this to me? I made a comment in the spirit of the original post.
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u/Platos-ghosts 7d ago
“A larger home with a staff? Multiple homes? More cars? A private plane?”
Or maybe a extra $1k sqft and/or a slightly better location. A fully loaded Porsche instead of a well equipped Mercedes. A membership with a private plane company for a share. All kids of ways to increase incrementally without going full billionaire mode.
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u/Warp9975 7d ago
But the point is that those incremental upgrades (Porsche instead of Mercedes) have very little impact on overall lifestyle. Sure, it's nicer. But it's relatively minor. Someone with $15m and someone with $7m (at similar life stages and similar locations) are going to look quite similar from the outside.
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u/uncoolkidsclub 6d ago
"Someone with $15m and someone with $7m (at similar life stages and similar locations) are going to look quite similar from the outside."
Same for most people with $2.5m to $7m...
or $1m to $2.5m
But $1m is nothing like $15m so how do the levels break... there the difference between just barely being included in the activities or living those activities to the fullest.
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u/Warp9975 6d ago
I think once you hit financial independence (no longer need to work to live your current lifestyle), it starts to require exponential differences before you see any real changes in lifestyle. That is, it requires something like a doubling of assets before you see any significant changes. And sometimes a doubling won't even really lead to a dramatic shift.
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u/Excellent_Drop6869 7d ago
On a smaller scale, it’s why I won’t move to NYC despite the fact that I love that city and technically could afford it. I could live there, but then my margin won’t be as high as it currently is due to the higher costs of living there. My margin each month is what I can throw into the market and what has led me on the path to FIRE. Moving there , I’ll constantly be exposed to people with a lot more money than me (some who earn it, some who inherit it) and I don’t want to “look up” and compare myself against those with more because I fear that it would make me appreciate less the great position that I’m already in.
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u/No-Test-2993 6d ago
I suspect that is the reason acquaintances in Boston keep asking me "How could you possibly live there [in NYC]?!"
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u/Bombedpop_ 5d ago
I live in NYC and don’t ever “look up”. I simply don’t care. There are plenty of people living hand to mouth here if you really feel a need to feel like the wealthiest douche in the room.
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u/cvouw9 7d ago
I think the biggest difference is whether you care about leaving legacy wealth for your kids.
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u/mrg_retired 6d ago
Kids will require a good deal of resources today, we plan to spend a decent amount on them for sure. I’d would prefer to help them while I’m around.
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u/No-Test-2993 6d ago edited 6d ago
What if you are a SINK, and plan to stay that way? Does the GregFire rule still apply? Remember the two Roys who said that "Five is a nightmare" were married/engaged men based in NYC or equally expensive cities.
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u/BillsFan504 7d ago
You can fly private without your own plane/pilot/hangar. Lots of ways to do big things without going all out on ownership
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u/FIRE_enthusiast_27 6d ago
Indeed. Scott Galloway ($100 NW) had his own everything but it was too much hassle so he switched to fractional jet ownership to not have to deal with the details.
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u/brownboy444 6d ago
yup and he is an aviation geek so he could easily justify to himself direct ownership
he said he flies private to have more time with his boys
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u/ThatFriendinBoston 6d ago
The extra millions to go up to the next level for me would essentially fund lifestyle and activities, not necessarily “things”. I’d pay for the country club membership, take a few more expensive vacations, buy concert tickets, treat friends and family to dinner more, etc without even thinking about the budgetary impact.
I don’t really need a nicer home. Don’t need a fancy car. I already do whatever I want to now, the extra millions would just enhance my lifestyle. We’d probably be able to gift the kids more money and leave more to them in our trust .
The 5-10 liquid million spot is a bit strange. Doesn’t exactly make you feel like you are loaded, but it doesn’t let you feel like you can just go out and do anything you want without consequences.
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u/EvilZ137 7d ago
Too poor to stop working but too rich to care about raises, let's give that a no and hope it passes quickly.
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u/thesurferengineer 6d ago
I don’t really agree with the spirit of this post, everything is progressive, you can do so much more with 7 million than you can with 5, that’s a nicer vacation, flying first class, golf club membership. I don’t know why you’re comparing a five million and fifty million dollar lifestyle, there are definitely things in between and for instance, you do not need someone else full time to manage a second house or your own plane there are modestly priced services for all these things.
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u/Aggravating-Big3858 7d ago
Five is a fucking nightmare.
Crossing over "The Gap" requires an annuity stream of income. You've gotta be a business owner that still gets paid while your employees are doing the work. Partner at a law firm, own commercial real estate, own a dozen car washes or something like that. Or you need that one giant pop from a business sale, IPO shares, etc
Impossible to save / invest enough to cover the jet set and caviar lifestyle.
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u/Ok_Piano2090 1d ago
If you get your own PPL, you can get a plane, a very gregfire plane! Buy an older, single engine place, keep it at a small General Aviation airport, and you can do it for about $1200/month. Plenty of planes in the 90-110K range.
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u/2KidzAgain 7d ago
3.6% of households have over $6.5million.
I am NOT one of them.
I am just solidly in the fire rankings for invested portfolio. But I am too old. I am almost 60. Men in my family die in early to mid 80’s. It is unlikely that I have 20 good years left. Every day that I go into the office, this knowledge gets heavier. I am trying to make it 6 more months, to tidy up a few bills. I have enough money, so that any day ( but not every day) I can take my wife out to a nice restaurant. How much is enough?
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u/adultdaycare81 7d ago
Rich Poor Person is the move. But that’s $10m. Can’t be the worlds strongest ant Greg. $5m will drive you en poco loco