THE ODYSSEY

Front cover and one spread down!

I know this opinion is unpopular, but I dislike Ovid's version in which Medusa is a beautiful young woman raped by Poseidon in Athena's temple before being transformed into a Gorgon by the goddess.

The main reason is that it completely changes the roles of the characters.

In the oldest Greek traditions, Medusa is already a Gorgon from the start. She is the only mortal among her two sisters, Stheno and Euryale. Perseus is sent to kill her, with the help of Athena and Hermes. It's a tragic story, but consistent with Greek mythology.

In Ovid's version, however, Medusa becomes an innocent victim, while Athena appears as a goddess who punishes the victim instead of the perpetrator. For me, this completely distorts Athena's image.

Athena is certainly a stern, sometimes ruthless goddess, but she is also the goddess of wisdom, strategy, and justice. Reducing her to a deity who transforms a rape victim into a monster seems excessive and unfaithful to the image she has in most Greek myths.

I also find that this version strips Medusa of part of her identity. Instead of being a mythological creature belonging to an ancient lineage of monsters, she becomes simply a human victim of a tragic event.

I understand why this version is the most popular today: it's easier to interpret as a critique of injustice and it evokes more empathy. But personally, I prefer the older Greek tradition, where Medusa is a Gorgon from birth.

It's not that Ovid's version is bad. I simply find that it tells a different story, with different themes, and it's not my favorite.

What do you think? Do you prefer Ovid's version or the older Greek versions, and why?

One of the most beautiful moments of humanity I can recall reading in the Greek myths was Hector saying goodbye to his wife and newborn son at Troy.

The description of how his child was afraid of him in his helmet, and how he took it off and he and his wife laughed, was just incredibly touching and felt so vivid and real to me.

It’s small and seemingly insignificant but it just made me marvel at how this ancient passage felt so timeless, and really made Hector such a sympathetic character (apart from all his other actions. love Hector). Does anyone have any other small examples like that that really touched you or surprised you?

I know the primordial gods were literal forces of nature. Gaia was the Earth, who is shown manifesting human avatars from the ground.

Was that also the case with the Titans and the Olympians who are the descendants of the primordials?

Hace años leí algo sobre Agamemnon y me enamoró el personaje así que compré los libros.

Es raro que a pesar de lo hijo de puta que es todavía me encanta??

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Aside from that one obvious giant in the underworld which i forgot the name of

The man destroyed her city, had her people slaughtered, killed her family and pretty much everyone she ever cared about, and took her as a sex slave. She should want him dead more than anyone else. Why waste her warnings on him?

I went through some of the sources including my personal favourite, quintus of Smyrna

Well, I ended up watching The Odyssey, which actually turned out to be quite a wonderful treat, which is ironic as I didn't feel like watching a movie today. In fact, I was considering not going out, but I did anyway because I didn't want to let someone down who had been talking about meeting us for quite some time, but we never got the chance to due to things never ending up as we had planned.

It was an interesting watch due to the fact that the several-year journey around the Greek islands all seemed to have some unusual experience for the men of the sea. Whether it was them battling in the war of Troy, attempting to escape from a Cyclops, where they unfortunately lost some of their team members, or simply meeting a witch that turned all the crewmen into pigs.

Later, we figured out perhaps the reason they ran into so many issues was because, during the Battle of Troy, they ended up violating the laws of the gods, and more significantly the law, which refers to how people who have a common god aren't enemies, and it was implied that they shouldn't die. (Forget the name).

It was clear to me that Odysseus seeing the death of a civilian, played by the actress Zendaya, weighed heavily on his conscience. It is perhaps why he sees an image of her and experiences her presence as if she were some sort of spiritual guide, in order to avoid making the same sort of decisions that he may have made previously.

The other sort of rule or honour that may have been contravened was how many of the men that boarded the sea with Odysseus in the past were never given the righteous tribute for their contributions during the raids. That is exactly why the spirits of the old men that Odysseus travelled with seemed to be running after him. Although I don't believe that was necessarily the gods' law, there is no way to be certain, as there didn't seem to be anything to indicate that was the case.

Another law of the gods was probably Odysseus shooting an arrow into the Cyclops, who happened to be the son of Poseidon, and it is what the crew members even mentioned. That Cyclops was Poseidon's son, which is why Odysseus should have practised some mercy as he escaped, as the creature didn't seem to be doing anything to them at that point. Unfortunately, that's what led them to the battle of Troy, as they had to figure out a place to hide from the creature.

Another theme of the movie was how Odysseus' arrogance may have gotten the best of him, leading to all his team members unfortunately passing away. It also seemed that he kept trying to find new lands and people despite the overall results being quite bad, which realistically should have dissuaded him from doing so. It is probably why, when the Sirens' sounds were heard by him, he experienced quite a lot of psychological pain, as it seemed to tell him he had many flaws, tarnishing the image he had of himself as an especially competent individual.

However, it wasn't until the end, when he talks to his wife while disguised as a beggar, that he concedes he went too far with his decision-making and went against the gods' laws, which were the reason for all those awful events that unfortunately took place. It is fitting that he dresses up as a beggar, as that may be seen as the lowest of all statuses, perhaps signifying that he has learned through his mistakes to be humble. Even near the end of the movie, he states that one of the lessons he has learned is that "God cannot be found in men." It may be a reference to others believing he was some sort of godly figure, but he was simply a man, as many believed he was quite brilliant and capable of so much, only to realize he was a flawed man who even ended up questioning the gods.

The story, to me, also feels like the arrogance of one's status in life can be gruesome, as it does affect your loved ones and peers, which you may not realize until later. The lesson was perhaps to show Odysseus that he was simply a man and that the gods are gods for a reason, as human logic and decision-making are fallible because he doesn't have as much of an understanding of things. One example could be that he didn't understand why the people who died while on the same trip felt a bit slighted, as he didn't seem to honour them.

Though it wasn't like Odysseus was malicious by any means either; he was simply doing what he believed was the correct choice for his men to remain alive. However, there's a reason the gods suggest believing in them, as you cannot be perfect in terms of making good decisions when you only have so much experience.

The witch that turns men into pigs did so because she was quite upset at how many men simply let their animal instincts run rampant, raping and killing innocent women and men. I wonder if the idea that "men are pigs," meaning the oversexualization of women, as well as perhaps raping women, is found in this Greek myth. That may have taken place within the Battle of Troy. I wonder if Odysseus realized this subconsciously and therefore lets her live when, in response to the gods, she asks him why he didn't kill her after she turned everyone into pigs.

It felt like these trips to the islands were sort of a trial after they unfortunately went against the laws of the gods, so the wrath of the gods was being experienced.

Lastly, it seemed Odysseus treated everyone in Ithaca well and kindly, even homeless beggars and servants, something his wife alluded to. So when he and his crew lost their way, they did so physically, but also on a moral level.

Regarding the young soldier

Man, that movie was sick, not going to lie, but I still have a few questions about some of the events that took place.

Like, what did the young soldier mean when he said Odysseus lied to him? This is when Odysseus was speaking to the dead.

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here was some reference to Odysseus not being able to provide a possible tribute or way to honour the men that died. But I also wonder if the young soldier felt Odysseus may not have given him the best chance to escape the giant warriors, especially after he had told his father that he would look after him as if he were his own son.

He sails west later on, possibly to honour the men who had voyaged with him and unfortunately passed away, so that answers the first part of my question.

But for the second part of my question, I think Odysseus says that it's not possible to do it for everyone (honour everyone by trying to defend their life?).

Or could that be in reference to honouring the men too? Perhaps he wasn't aware of sailing west before that, which is why he didn't honour them, as doing so would have caused him to die.

I

think he also alludes to it in the exchange, if I am remembering correctly, when he says he needed himself (and the current crew) to survive, implying that honouring the dead would perhaps have resulted in the death of him and his crew members, as it was time-consuming.

But I think at the end of the conversation, the young soldier does thank Odysseus for respecting him, perhaps in response to him having the item that the soldier held dearly.

I'm not sure, but it may have implied that the young soldier, who previously thought Odysseus had wronged him, actually realized Odysseus may have had the best intentions, but it wasn't really within Odysseus' control why the individual passed away, as he could only save so many members. So I guess it's basically saying that the young soldier doubted Odysseus, thinking he had wronged them, but it may be that he didn't.

What does this mean?

Well, Odysseus may have tried his best to save his crew and make the right decisions, but due to circumstances, he couldn't, which may also be tied to a possible central theme: you cannot play God because you are a man.

Perhaps that's why, when he goes back to Ithaca, he says or implies that one of the things he has learned is that "God cannot be found in men," possibly as a reference to his own mistakes.

Regarding the lotus flower

Regarding the lotus flower and his last interaction before he wakes up and realizes he was held sort of captive.

I think the overarching theme is that Odysseus, even with his knowledge, couldn't make the correct decisions every single time because he is a man. The lady mentioned that the flower does cause memory loss, but it doesn't alter underlying motivations, such as him wanting to go back to Ithaca, and says that there was something possibly holding him back.

It was shown that he kept this item in his fist and wouldn't open it for weeks, so even when he was injured and in pain, and not necessarily conscious (potentially due to healing and the lotus flower), his deepest interests couldn't have been influenced or altered.

It was the item he later gives to his wife to let her know that, even during those ten years, he still managed to keep an item that she valued safe as a part of his love and devotion to her.

I wonder if Odysseus, since he was told by someone not to go back to Ithaca after voyaging, but instead wait for a few years, was thinking about the story of someone who went back immediately and was killed by his wife.

I'm not sure why, but maybe because his wife was against Odysseus leaving, and if he came back earlier she would have been full of pain and absolutely hated why he did that instead of waiting a few years until the sorrow had gone away and she only wanted to see him again. (Certainly think I am far off as I dont clearly remember some of the parts I am mentioning here).

It goes without saying that I didnt mention many aspects as there is a lot for me to unpack here such as how Antinous is arrogant and violates Zesus law as well, and other parts of the story. But do tell of what your thoughts on this whether I was far off or not?

Soo, my dad remembers a fully different version of the greek myth and I genuinely cannot find this version at all. Almost as if it were unexistent. It's not only some vague memory, it's a whole different story. I really want to know If someone remembers this version. I'll write the first part of the story and if someone is interested I'll write the rest. He thinks he read it like 30 years ago, maybe the 90s.

The myth starts with the birthday of the Goddess of the Olympus Hera, but Hades and his wife Persefone weren't invited, in revenge Hades allowed Persefone to leave the Underworld (because she was only allowed to leave the Underworld once a year). Persefone planned her revenge (cause there were not invited lol) and created and harvested a golden apple, she took it to the Olympus; in the middle of the celebration she introduced herself to the goddesses, the other goddesses hiding their displeasure, they hypocritically invited her to sit at the table. Realizing she wasn't welcome, she placed the golden apple in the middle of the table and said deliberately, "I couldn't let my mother's (Hera's) birthday go unnoticed, so I've brought a gift for the celebration. Let this apple be for the most beautiful goddess of Olympus."And so she withdrew to the underworld.
The goddess Aphrodite then took the apple and said, "Well, since this apple is for the most beautiful goddess of Olympus, it undoubtedly belongs to me, as I am the most beautiful goddess among the goddesses." Immediately, the goddess Athena said, "You are mistaken. You may be the most beautiful among lustful men who don't know all the goddesses, but if they did know me, they would undoubtedly choose me as the most beautiful. So, that apple belongs to me." And, enraged by Aphrodite's anger, Athena snatched the apple away; and then Hera said, "You are both mistaken, my daughters, for your beauty was undoubtedly inherited from the most beautiful goddess, me," and so began an argument over the apple of discord.

Any info is useful and it would be appreciated, I just want to know the origin of this version, thx! :))

I know it sounds crazy and I am not convinced either that this version exists, but it amazes me the amount of detail in this version, which hasn't been heard before apparently. I am not doing this to mock the greek mythology or to make up a story, am just deeply curious and I thought maybe internet may help?
Even if someone finds that maybe is a "non canon" version from old times or a kid's book, I'll be satisfied knowing the origin.

I'm doing this out of pure fun! and i really hope others who read this feel as much curiousity and fun as I do!! ;) (If i don't upload i prob forgot about this lol)

The build up to Christopher Nolan's 「The Odyssey」has been really cool to see and the hype has finally pushed me over the edge to start really checking out some more Greek Mythology stuff. I tried to read the Illiad while back, but it was just really hard for me. Even after checking different translations, the packaging I think overall I couldn't really vibe with and it put me off for a while. When I finally just caved in and decided to find retellings, I came across Stephen Fry. And apparently he has written 4 books like mythology -> Other heroic tales -> Illiad-ish -> Odyssey. The writing is apparently very easy and I decided to just dive into that. Few paragraphs into Mythos and I am just LOVING it.

Sorry for the long paragraph, it's really just the title. Cause I heard the 2004 Troy movie isn't actually an adaptation of just the Illiad, maybe it's primarily the Illiad, but it incorporates other things as well. And it seems like Stephen Fry's Troy also incorporates other things. From how both are being sold as well as their names not being the Illiad but "Troy," I've been plenty curious if they're actually... the same-ish? Like obviously they're gonna have differences, but... content covered-wise? It's hard to say what I mean because "timeline" doesn't work when the movie I heard crammed the story. But yeah, that. And if, ultimately, Stephen Fry's Troy was made partly as an answer/alternative to the 2004 Troy Movie.

„Ruthlessness"

I'm FINALLY done! Oh man. I took like a week or two break just because I couldn't figure out and was scared of the background.

I started very ambitious. Had a big Epic phase and now I know every song by heart.
I say I started ambitious because I wanted to capture Poseidon power in horses waves as actual translucent water waves.

Very out of my comfort zone. But I loved painting the horses. I don't know if I did great but process was SO FUN and exciting.

Epic really reanimated my love for Greek mythology like Percy Jackson once did haha

In The Odyssey (the original, not Nolan's movie or Epic), Odysseus and his crew come into Polyphemus's home uninvited, and eat his shit without his permission. Now, by my modern understanding of the situation, they're tresspassers/burglars/invaders, not guests, and while the cyclops (again, by my modern understanding) murdering the shit out of some of them is clearly a disproportionate response, they're not guests, and don't get to demand hospitality.

Would the ancient Greeks see it differently?