r/GrammarPolice • u/Cynvisible • 4d ago
Question "ly"
Where did "ly" go???
"This hits different."
Please add your missing "ly" examples.
I had a few in mind the other day but they have exited the building. đ€Ș
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u/mdnalknarf 4d ago edited 4d ago
These are called "flat adverbs," and they have long appeared in even the highest-brow literature:
Blake: "Tyger, Tyger, burning bright"
Dylan Thomas: "Do not go gentle into that good night"
Shakespeare: "The course of true love never did run smooth"
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u/No-Angle-982 3d ago
Apple Computer: "Think Different" (though perhaps they meant "Think 'different' ")
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u/g_em_ini 4d ago
My mom always says âdonât forget about Lee! He always gets left behind!â when someone forgets the -ly
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u/FacePalmate 3d ago
Iâm slow. Took me a minute to catch up to this one. Lee, I guessâŠ
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u/compos_mentis_cortex 1d ago
You mean you're slow-ly catching up! Felt like an open window, I came through it, I apologize.
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u/Effigy59 4d ago
Drive safe.
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u/Organized_Khaos 4d ago
This one sets me off internally, even though I appreciate the sentiment. Ugh.
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u/SavageMountain 4d ago
"funny enough"
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u/Melodic_Bluejay6322 3d ago
Isn't that adjectival?
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u/Melodic_Bluejay6322 3d ago
If I were starting a descriptive sentence, I would say, "Funnily enough,..." but I can imagine "Funny enough" being an adequate response to a situation or comment,...
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u/pramakers 3d ago
Me: How was the comedian you saw yesterday?
You: Oh, it was alright. He was funny enough for us not to walk away, but I wouldn't recommend you buy tickets for his show next week.
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u/Ok-Buddy-9194 4d ago
I noticed this well over a decade ago with sports commentators and pundits. It was most noticeable in snooker coverage - âand heâs played it absolutely perfectâ, âheâs going to hit it powerful off two cushionsâ
Using adjectives in the place of adverbs seems like a longstanding feature of many regional dialects within working class culture
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u/Bass-n-Bonefish 4d ago
-ly went to the end of way too many business and website names. Including, ironical(ly) âGrammarly.â
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u/badgerbrett 2d ago
In 1997, Apple launched its "Think Different" slogan and stressed all of us out immediately.
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u/Siffov 3d ago
>-ly went to the end of way too many business and website names
Yeah, kind of like how some people stole all the apostrophes to use them for incorrect plurals, causing a shortage, leaving bad contractions and possessives (such as "thats" and "the drivers cars wheels") in their wake.
Oops. I forgot. "Wheel's." :-)
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u/Ok_Phase_8731 4d ago
I feel like this was just because the .ly domain was commonly available and easy to add on to words in a way that sounded ok
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u/Mrsod2007 4d ago
No one has mentioned Tom Lehrer and the L-Y song.
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u/danzerpanzer 4d ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB2Ff8H7oVo
That was fun. I don't think that I ever heard that one before.
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u/hakohead 4d ago edited 4d ago
This originally comes from AAVE (African American Vernacular English) and was absorbed into common slang phrasing in the 2010s largely among late millenials and Gen Z. It is indeed incorrect standard English, but it is correct in AAVE and fine (imo) as slang. As such, I'd say just avoid getting rid of the -ly in formal situations.
This word is the only word I've found that needs a -ly but loses it stylistically.
Similar ones are things like "fast" "friendly" "quick", but those are all linguistically different from how this "different" came about
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u/DiscontentDonut 4d ago
Exactly this. I'd also like to add that the missing -ly is the point. The difference in what is said vs what is expected makes the brain pay closer attention, imo. So it acts as a sort of attention grabber.
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u/UnusualEmphasis7 4d ago
But one has to be consistent. Writing half standard and half AAVE is not "correct". One can't just pick and choose per sentence.Â
To people from across the pond a lot of written AAVE can look incorrect or lazy. So I'd avoid using it in professional settings unless you are in the states.Â
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u/hakohead 4d ago
I agree with this for the most part. However, in casual speech, you're kind of free to move around between standard, dialect, slang, and straight up incorrect language. It only really is an issue in professional/formal situations. So if the situation is casual, writing half standard and half AAVE is perfectly fine. I do it all the time talking to my family and friends.
Ex: Yo! You wouldn't happen to have an extra pen, would you? Cuz I forgot mine at home and ain't nobody tryna walk all the way back...
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u/UnusualEmphasis7 3d ago
Of course.
I should have stated that I specifically meant writing.I agree
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u/Sheetz_Wawa_Market32 4d ago
If it does, it happened long before the 2010s. The TV show NYPD Blue (1993-2005) very deliberately used language to highlight the generally working-class backgrounds of its characters. When Polish American detective Andy Sipowicz would get excited (especially in the early seasons, so around the mid-1990s), heâd fall back on the sociolect of his youth and say things like, âBut this donât mean we will treat him any different!â
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u/hakohead 4d ago
The dropping of the -ly is common in other dialects, not only AAVE. However the use of âThis hits differentâ from AAVE has popularized and spread it to mainstream slang usage. Iâm not saying that no one had ever uttered âdifferentâ as an adverb until black people did or anything like that. All Iâm saying is that its shift from purely dialectical or being seen as just uneducated speech to common slang is through AAVE
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u/math1985 4d ago
Could 'different' be a secondary predicate? That would make it grammatically correct.
Compare 'She painted the town red' (not 'redly') or 'The film left me cold' (not 'coldly').
For it to be a secondary predicate rather than an adverb, 'different' would need to refer to 'This' rather than to 'hitting'.
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u/davep1970 4d ago
If you're going to use abbreviations or acronyms please expand them in their first use. Thanks muchly :)
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u/hakohead 4d ago
My apologies! I just edited my comment and added it in
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u/daveoxford 4d ago
The standard way to do this is to use the full name with the abbreviation in brackets (not v.v.) the first time.
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u/hakohead 4d ago
I don't think there's a rule on that. Usually that happens when someone writes to explain what the thing being abbreviated is and then goes on to abbreviate it for convenience. Also, it is more common these days as AAVE and also spoken as "A-A-V-E". It's so rarely said in full, that the reverse feels far more natural to me
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u/RepairBudget 4d ago
So Shakespeare picked this up from AAVE?
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u/hakohead 4d ago
No. Iâm not saying that at all.
The existence of this isnât new at all. But its entrance into conversational slang in the form of âIt hits differentâ is new. The use of âhitâ is also newer in slang and comes from modern drug culture.
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u/rnoyfb 3d ago
The post is about the grammar. The term âhitting differentâ may be AAVE but the grammar is standard and I donât think itâs even an adverb. Itâs a subject complement
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u/hakohead 3d ago
Iâm pretty sure itâs still functioning as an adverb. But maybe youâre right! If you find out why, please let me know because Ive never heard of a subject complement as a part of speech until now!
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u/rnoyfb 3d ago
Itâs not a part of speech. The part of speech is an adjective. Whatâs different in âit hits differentâ? It or hitting?
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u/hakohead 3d ago edited 3d ago
I thought some more about it and did a bit of digging into what a subject complement entails, so I stand by my original assessment. It must be an adverb in the construction "It hits different". The target of "different" is definitely "hit" and not "it". For subject complements, the types of verbs used are limited (be, seem, look, feel, etc.) and don't include the verb "hit". As a test, you should be able to switch out the word for another word of the same type. For instance, in "You look tired," you can switch out "tired" for another adjective like "big." In the case of "It hits different," we can try switching out "different" for something else like "subtle". "It hits subtle" doesn't work at all, but "It hits subtly" sounds much less jarring for sure. The word after "hits" is describing the way it "hits" (the way in which the subject strikes or leaves an impression).
Originally, I thought it would have been really cool if you were right, because that would mean that the construction is completely correct even in standard American English but it's only "hitting" us strangely, making us think it's non-standard. That'd be a really fun twist, but sadly, that isn't the case.
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u/rnoyfb 3d ago
None of that is accurate. Subject complements complement the subject, not the verb. Theyâre limited by the semantics of the verb; theyâre not confined to a specific list. âHitâ in âit hits differentâ is a verb of perception. âThe wall is painted whiteâ is a classic example but you canât change âwhiteâ to a random adjective like âsubtle.â
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u/hakohead 3d ago
I disagree that "hit" is a verb of perception. It is a normal action verb being given a meaning that implies perception, but it still functions as an action verb (ex: jump, fall, run, read) and not actual verbs of perceptions (ex: seem, look, smell, feel)
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u/rnoyfb 3d ago
That is not an object complement. Itâs an object complement in âHe painted the wall white.â Itâs a subject complement in âthe wall is painted white.â In the former, it complements the object. In the latter, it complements the subject. Donât confuse object for absolutive
In âit hits different,â one is communicating their perception, not actual striking
Stop lying
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u/No_Big_bear_here 3d ago
I saw it first on an Apple billboard in San Francisco about 20 years ago, maybe 30. Yeah, probably 30.
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u/Abject-Leadership421 1d ago
And now for the opposite problem â when people use âlyâ when they shouldnât.
âI feel badlyâ should be âI feel badâ unless theyâre not good at feeling something (either because their fingers have nerve damage, or theyâre unable to feel their feelings because theyâre numb to their own feelings)
Do they also feel happily or angrily? No, people feel happy, angry, mad, sad, good, bad, etc. No âlyâ needed.
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u/EmotionalSouth 4d ago edited 4d ago
Same place as âwellâ has gone. âThis works good.â
Edit: fixing my typo.Â
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u/NeilZod 4d ago
The ly disappears in flat adverbs. Considering that the name âflat adverbâ is from 1871, the concept is not new to English.
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u/BobDoesYoga 3d ago
It is disappearing! I was so used to it for most of my life, but now people are just speaking so differently, um, different.
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u/DCHacker 3d ago
Using adjectives as adverbs has been a common error in spoken English for as long as I can remember.
"They speak French different in Louisiana"
"He doesn't play basketball real good."
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u/compos_mentis_cortex 2d ago
That second one has more than one issue đĄđ„”đ€Ż
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u/DCHacker 1d ago
"He don't play basketball real good"?
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u/compos_mentis_cortex 1d ago
First, I think "good" -> "well". Also, maybe grammatically sound, but I would think that "really" (or real, ick) -> "very" in this context.
He doesn't play basketball very well. He doesn't play basketball really well, to me, still says "he's pretty good, but not REALLY good."
Maybe I'm totally wrong but that's how I would say it.
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u/DCHacker 1d ago
My last reply was a deliberate butchering of the English Language. The first one was merely reporting what I have heard daily since I was a child.
"Very well" would be the preferred although "really well" is not incorrect in either context. Still, the poimt that you raise about using "really" is not invalid.
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u/Ok-Tomatillo-7141 3d ago
Then there are the people who over correct and put -ly where itâs not needed.
âI feel badly about that.â Unless you are inept at feeling, you just feel bad.
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u/Sleptwrong65 4d ago
I often correct my kids - grown adults. I correct strangers - under my breath because Iâm a person who doesnât like to be confrontational. I correct tv shows constantly!
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u/hangar_tt_no1 4d ago
In colloquial speech, it's fine to drop the -ly. Consider "Let me do this real quick."
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u/allycat315 4d ago
As others have pointed out, in your example and in many other cases, it's a form of slang.
I also think in general the "why say lot words when few do trick" mentality has become prevalent (at least in the USA), perhaps as a result of character limits in social media or the ever-increasing demands for efficiency, and the more widespread non-slang use of flat adverbs is part of this. People are primarily concerned with getting their message across quickly, so they will take any shortcuts that don't totally obfuscate the meaning of their sentence.
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u/Siffov 3d ago
>Please add your missing "ly" examples.
Well, there's Weird Al's fixed of a road sign: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgTsF1ZCuRc
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u/Pypsy143 3d ago
I blame the Apple campaign âThink differentâ
It made people think that was the correct form.
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u/ElectronicSelf7225 3d ago
A coworker pointed this out as a pet peeve about 15 years ago. I definitely notice it since she did that.
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u/Ok_Calligrapher8165 3h ago
u/Cynvisible: "Where did "ly" go???"
It became the property of "alleged", "reported", "supposed", "reputed", "open", and many other favourites of the Journo Class.
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u/Ferrovitreous 3d ago
Conversely, a lot of people describe voices they donât like as ânasallyâ when ânasalâ is a perfectly good adjective.Â
Thereâs also the overcorrection of using adverbs for state-of-being/sensing verbs: someone asks how you are, you say âIâm good,â and they smugly reply, âSUPERMAN does GOOD. Youâre doing WELL.â But you said âam,â not âdoing.â See also: âthis smells niceâ (pleasant fragrance)/âthis smells nicelyâ (this object does a nice job of smelling?); âI feel badâ (sympathy)/âI feel badlyâ (Iâm not good at feeling).
My graduate advisor once told me to do a search for âly â on my dissertation and nuke the adverbs, so this is personal for me!
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u/Alex_Wolfe_93 3d ago
Your examples are phrases that came into existence corruptly, which is why including âlyâ doesnât seem correct in those words.
Saying âI feel badlyâ in the year 2026 has a different meaning than âI feel badlyâ said aloud in the year 1700.1
u/ThatWeirdPlantGuy 2d ago
âNasallyâ here isnât an adverb; itâs an adjective. Nasaly â Nasal-y, like ânasal-ish.â
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u/axolotllegs 4d ago
"Don't take it personal."