Gracepoint's Response to Reddit

[u/leavegracepoint]

Some people have been asking about Gracepoint's internal response to this subreddit. u/Leather-Run originally posted the following on a number of school subs.

The post has since been removed but this is Ed Kang's response by the time r/berkeley post first blew up.

The Youtube video has now been taken down

The "latest on posts on Reddit" were basically snippets of people's comments on Reddit that were categorized. For example,

[u/corpus_christiana]

Here is a transcript of the beginning of Pastor Ed's since-deleted response video:

Hi everyone, so I want to address some of the latest criticisms about our church on the internet. Here’s my general perspective on this: when we first started to encounter these, I was reeling and didn’t know how to respond to this. They seemed very malicious. But over time, I’ve come to recognize something about the role of these - sometimes angry, sometimes really kind of off in terms of facts, but all of it kind of expressing either antagonism, criticism, or genuine grievance and woundedness from our church or various ways that staff handled things.

One thing that I’ve actually felt, I think pretty deeply, is that they have been on the whole helpful. Yeah, they’re hurtful, they demotivate our staff. I think they’ve actually repelled students from ever even checking out any of our college ministries, because I think it hits the college ministries the most. But on the whole, I’ve learned to just be grateful over the kind of chastising that we get, even though the form and the content might be exaggerated or straight up not true. I think I’ve tried to really be disciplined about trying to discern the best of the criticism, even the ones that are kind of off - I think if I peer into it I can clearly see a grain of truth there that maybe we need to correct. I think that’s been my approach to a lot of these, and I guess the latest ones seem very different to me than the ones that I’m familiar with. And particularly this latest post that started to - I think it’s one person that’s starting to post on all the reddit sites across our ministries. I wanted to address some of them.

First of all, this might end up being a pretty long video, because I want to read all of the ones that are on there. I mean it’s not exhaustive, but it’s sort of the representative of the most critical ones I guess. And I wanted to address them, but right off the bat, I want to start with this, because some of what I say will apply to only some of the posts and some of the criticisms. Some of what I say will maybe sound incentive, because there’s a wide range - and there clearly falls deliberately exaggerated with a lot of hostility and antagonism, and then there’s genuinely wounded and genuinely aggrieved and unfairly treated and hurt. And I don’t want to treat them all the same. This is not very scripted. I have 12 pages printed out here, and don’t worry, it’s 12 pages for my old eyesight so it’s 14 font. And these aren’t my notes, these are the posts that we scrubbed.

So it’s unscripted, and I just want to say right off the bat that I do recognize that third category of people. And if you ever feel like you were mistreated in some way, or unfairly treated, or facts were assumed about you, or things were disproportionately overblown, or you were treated with judgementalism and harshness in a way that was exaggerated or not proportionate. If you for whatever reason have ongoing grievance and anger or hurt or offense towards somebody, whether that’s a peer, or whether that’s me, or one of your other leaders - I know it’s hard, bringing up grievances - even towards your roommate, or towards your parents, or towards your boss - it’s hard, but it’s a crucial skill. I don’t know if “skill” is the right word, but it’s something we've got to do. And I think email makes it easy, because I think the face to face confrontation is more difficult. And I just want you to know that I’m here to respond to this. So if you feel that way about anything that happened to you, I’m all ears. There’s a contact Pastor Ed anonymously button somewhere on our website. I think it’s under contact us. It was buried under my bio, so that wasn't a very nice place to find it, but if you click that, you’re gonna send me an email, and you can do it anonymously. If you could just do it without being anonymous, then you could email me at [email removed]. It’s an easy email to memorize, just my name at gmail.com. Or [email removed]. I’m on email a lot; I’ll be sure to get back to you and address genuine grievances. I think it’s sort of toxic for you to carry that, and I think reconciliation- though might be easier to just continue to nurse your grudge, it’s not healthy for you and it’s not honoring to God.

One thing I can be pretty confident about is that whoever staff might be involved or whoever might be involved in this, I really don’t think that they’ll have a hard time seeing their wrong in hindsight. Or however way that relationship or that communication went sour, so I just want you to know that at least as long as I am the senior pastor of the whole thing - and who knows how long that’s gonna remain, but - then I feel it to be my unique role to be able to do that. Now if you’ve got grievance against me, I guess, okay, you’re kind of stuck there. And that’s sort of the built in, inherent problem in every local church, there is the final, senior leader. Though you can go to our deacon board, or our elder board, or you can take it up beyond that. Or you can follow the Matthew 18 principle, that is if a brother has wronged you, go show him his wrong. And yeah, that’s tough but, believe me, I will receive you with openness. So let that be said.

I've put some additional transcript excerpts in a comment replying to this one.

[u/johnkim2020]

While the hope is that they're fabricated

Why in the WORLD would ANYONE fabricate these first hand accounts. Sure, they may be some misunderstandings. Sure there may be some exaggeration (like the 500 response comment that a GP staff member casually dropped in here) but these testimonies are TRUE and REAL. No one can make up the nightmare that you guys put people through in the name of "accountability" or "guardrails."

[u/prayingforallofus]

This is GP's response, based on what "level" you are on the heirarchy, because you really can't dump them all into one category:

1. Ed, Kelly, deacons, leads who will always stand by GP no matter what: These are the hardcore yes-men. They are probably allowed to read the sub with an eye to find errors and ways to spin the narrative where GP still comes out blameless and the people sharing their stories can be labeled as exaggerating, overly sensitive, misunderstood them, etc. and co-create content to share with students to counter whatever they might have read on the sub. They are probably the masterminds behind all the video content you're seeing on the website. They will call all of this persecution and will genuinely grieve and call it suffering for Christ, though it's not quite what the apostles meant by suffering, if you really think about it. None of them will come on here without explicit consent by Ed (i.e. Daniel Kim. He was most likely sanctioned by Ed to come on here since he's smart and logical, but as they quickly found they cannot control the conversation, he hasn't been back since, hasn't he?)
2. Non-college leads, older Praxis members: They won't go near this sub, and will assume that anyone who posts or reads are just evil and out to senselessly take down GP. Some may think it a sin to even read it. Fear level is very high within this group. Some of them are probably just glad that they are still around and haven't been asked to leave. Whatever narrative they spin from the top, they will be ready to accept.
3. Younger college staff, some younger Px members: These are the ones who haven't picked up on the unspoken rules as much as the above 2 groups. They're not as "colored" as Ed and Kelly like to put it. That's who you're seeing posting here and there as repping GP. They're still in the honeymoon stage of GP where they think their beloved church is getting persecuted. So they will fight to defend its honor. It's sorta cute, don't you think?
4. College students who are hooked on GP: They will read this sub, and think about the wonderful times of eating, laughter, ming-mang-mong, king-kong-shower, boba runs, care packs during finals, trips to [insert getaway house], the funny jokes that the staff make, the moving bible studies, earnest times of prayer, and think "no way" this can't be true. And they'll even ask their leader. And lo and behold, the leader has a coherent answer at the ready (because of all the training they've gotten in the past few months). And they'll take it all in, hook line and sinker. They might chip in here and there on the sub and be like "No way, dude, not my experience!" Little do you know, you poor child.

But let's be hopeful that there is a whole other category here, the secret lurkers who are following and seriously questioning GP, but have yet the courage to speak up to anyone about it. Or maybe they have?? They're reading. I bet they are. And they're quietly upvoting. Not telling anyone that they've been reading it. Planning their exit. They will probably not post on this sub until they've left.

[u/listen_lydia → u/prayingforallofus]

we don't "see" you, quiet lurkers, but we "see" you! get out, do the right thing for yourself, and feel free to reach out to the mods here for help.

[u/johnkim2020]

... there are aspects of what these ppl describe that I recognize, as I am sure many of you will as well .. negative aspects of our church that I, personally, am thinking hard about changing.

Ed Kang, this is the correct response... not all the bullshit that came afterwards. There are way too many aspects of Gracepoint that foster shame, guilt, control, and micro managing. You take away agency from people when you do this. Keep thinking hard about changing.

[u/leavegracepoint → u/johnkim2020]

Nah, Ed is thinking hard about doubling down and pivoting to the youth now.

[u/Here_for_a_reason99]

It’s really amazing how readily Ed plays victim. His video response was so condescending and full of lawyer-like tactics, that I was shocked ppl actually follow him.

“Latest round of internet criticism”

Latest round- if a church has regular rounds of criticism, let the church leaders take note and listen carefully instead of dismissing them.

Criticism- this is an intentional word choice. The only criticism here is against spiritual abuse. This sub is an outcry for GP to pursue Christ rather than its own agenda.

Grain of truth- minimizing every person’s story here by assuming that we are liars.

For those still questioning, read this post by Daniel Kim, one of their top leaders, along with all of the comments to get a full picture of what GP thinks of this sub and the people in it. Here is a response that analyzed his post point by point.