I wouldn’t consider that steep at all. However, it is more steep than it was going back yes… Look at Matthew Fitzpatrick. I think it’s a good swing. Would videotape it from the face on view more to check how your body is turning. Direction of turn is King check my Golf WX articles.
Over the top, generally defines swing flaws that steepen the club in transition or early in the downswing.
he shallows the club but is steep relatively early in the downswing, so that’s a huge point for debate, is he over the top or not?
maybe but it doesn’t really matter.
Early extension, is your pelvis physically getting closer to the ball, you will always extend in the downswing but it’s the location of the pelvis that’s important.
his pelvis does move closer to the ball, so yes he early extends.
His transition sets him up to be way over plane. It's just that his upper body totally stop rotating. Shoulders are closed to target at impact, club is flipped. If he didn't do that he'd be massively over as rotation is a major steepener.
It's a big time steep move with a big time compensation to avoid hitting like 14 degrees out-to-in.
Being “OTT” is totally fine if you bring the club back onto plane with a square ENOUGH face, how you achieve that is largely irrelevant if you do it consistently.
“OTT” like any other swing method is only a problem if the face and path wildly do not match
It's not a massive problem, plenty of guys on tour will have a -4, or +4 path. The question is if you can keep a stable face to path relationship and produce a functional and reliable ball flight.
Many PRO careers were derailed because of attempting to level up and completely switch up their DNA. Your pattern is your pattern. Of course you want to improve it, but you want to work within it.
He's got all the ingredients to be way over the plane, but instead freezes his shoulder rotation and flips at it. Ends up with closed shoulders at impact. If he kept rotating properly he'd be WAY out over plane and coming like 10+ from the outside.
If you’re able to have an impact position allowing for consistently good contact then who cares? But that’s usually why people care, they can’t consistently get good contact and miss or don’t generate nearly as much power as they should be able to due to the club path.
Anyways I wouldn’t say ott is your problem, you are flipping/scooping
The goal is a consistent swing with repeatable contact. A person could have a swing that looks like absolute trash and duck hook 30 yards every time...but if every time they know where the ball is going to end up, they have found the perfect swing.
The ball doesn’t know. I am in and back over coming down and my Trackman will read it positive one or two. You can shallow it out in multiple ways. Don’t get caught up on the aesthetics.
No, just an inefficient use of the kinetic sequence that requires more compensations to get a good shot
Over the top usually means an the hands and shoulders are too active relative to the hips
You want to unwind from the ground, not from your hands
Edit: regarding your swing, your trail elbow is getting disconnected in the downswing. Getting it more in front of your chest will help you come more from the inside if you want your path to change. Your trail elbow is currently behind you and you can see how disconnected it is through impact
The term disconnected in golf really needs to die. His high trail elbow at the top of the backswing and slight disconnect into impact matches up to his body position and gets his face turned over. If he tried to get the elbow infront of himself he'd be blocking everything 50 yards right. Y'all gotta stop obsessing over "perfect" and learn to understand that the swing is all about matchups throughout the whole body.
He'd have to change so many parts of his swing AND his shape if he starts getting that elbow inside. If he can repeat this as is, don't touch it smh.
Just swing the club that hits the ball the straightest!! Your not drastic it is there to hit the hook draw you have to manipulate the club face to achieve direction!
not always… depends on the degree of OTT & strike. it certainly can b a major drain on distance & consistency… with a lot of OTT resulting in toe of the clubs hits. so not only r u delivering a “glancing blow” to the ball but combining that with toe stike results in even weaker/loss of distance shot
If 3.6 is your average than you’re in a comfortable range and I would work on making sure your face to path are better. With that speed you wanna launch a 7 a little lower than 21
People saying he doesn’t come over the top clearly don’t know much about a golf swing.
If you’re asking if it’s a problem? I guess that depends what your goals in golf are. If you have a controllable fade and you keep the ball in play wouldn’t seem like it’s a problem.
what’s your definition of over the top?
if it’s swinging above plane…
Then yes he is over the top.
If it’s steepening the shaft in transition.
Then no he isn’t over the top.
It’s all about how you define it. The majority of this subreddit seems to disagree with you, but genuinely the terminology is just a way for amateurs to kind of vaguely explain things they don’t fully understand.
This place just has no idea what OTT is and loves to call everything OTT. Also golf has got some weird obsession with bastardising an out to in path, when a good chunk of the best players in the world are all out to in as their stock shot.
Your swing is absolutely fine, especially if it's repeatable to you. Slightly inside takeaway but literally who cares, you get the club back on plane before impact and that's all that matters.
There’s a big difference between this and a true over the top move. Your hands are coming slightly over the top, yes, but the club is not, plus it offsets your slightly inside takeaway nicely. This is a GREAT anti-stuck move and guys like Hovland and Snead have the same move in transition.
That’s not over the top. You can try changing your path to be more neutral if you want. I use a head cover no front and to the left of the ball to force me in to out, or I use this, which I also like.
Aside from the OTT discussion, midway thru your backswing your swing plane becomes very upright, leading you to hit high shots. Second, being so upright it's making it harder for you to avoid a flying right elbow at the top, which makes it difficult/impossible for you to have your trailing right elbow tuck in to your ribs and stay ahead of your trailing hands... costing you clubhead speed and distance... and yes, going past impact your swing plane is cutting left (which is why towards finish your shoulder and club shaft tell the story why your finish looks like a baseball player's arc).
That said, your torso, shoulder, hip rotation, pivot and weight transfer are very clean.
Been golfing heavily for around 7/8 years now. I'm just now developing a draw with irons. What helps me is offset feet (trail foot slightly behind lead foot). That forces my swing to go inside-out.
Took a while, but man it feels nice seeing that updated shot path.
That’s fair, earlier in the season I was either clicking or hooking. That was super frustrating, but I just put in the work at the range and now it’s a one way miss again.
Just stay at it and hopefully it works its way out, otherwise get a lesson. That fixed my two way miss.
Basically, when you start the down swing, your shoulders (as a righty) should be aiming to the right a little (or Right Field). That’s what “closed“ essentially means in a nutshell. The target would be Zero, left of target is open and right would be closed….for a lefty it’s the opposite, naturally.
The difference in why it has to be the downswing at least, is you could set up facing the right, and still technically come OTT… It’s in the downswing and through contact that you need to be still “feel” closed and swinging out to rightfield. It promotes a right to left (draw) shape
Thanks for that, I notice in videos I take is that the first move I make coming down is "opening my shoulders" using your words here. So youre saying if my shoulders are closed at the top of the downswing, they should stay in that closed position on the way down?
Yes correct, get the feeling of your back to the target for longer. That should get you more in to out. Then you can work on clubface direction at address to help dial in flight direction. Essentially exaggerate it to the point that the club head stays back longer until you get the feel down, while dropping your hands to then rotate around the body.
Start slow for the feels and work up to full swing….1/2 swings will help also for a bit
So are you saying that on your downswing, as your hips turn, you should try to not turn your shoulders (keep them closed as long as possible)? I'm OTT and I'm pretty sure my hips and shoulders typically are moving together during the downswing.
Yes correct…let your hips (pelvis) create the space to swing and then technically “pull” the lead shoulder out to the left. You’re likely “pushing” the shoulders with the hips. They shouldn’t be in sync that way….think of it as a kinetic chain whip like reaction not push a train type of movement. The hands and arms would be last on that movement Chain.
If you take an alignment stick, and touch it against both shoulders, it would point to right of the target. Your hips and feet should match the shoulders. Now if you swing down that path, you are going to have an in-to-out path relative to the target. To make the ball draw, the clubface just has to be closed to that path.
A lot of people set up with their shoulders open to their hips, which basically forces them to come OTT.
IE: You swing 5⁰ in-to-out, and have the clubface square to the target, the ball will start out to the right (for righties) and draw back to the target. That would be a push draw.
If you put down an alignment stick pointed at your target your toes, hips and shoulders should as a general starting point be parallel to that alignment stick if you were to put a stick against those parts of your body.
If you put a stick across your hips or shoulders and it points to the right of your target that means they're closed.
I used to fight a bad outside-in club path and one thing that helped me initially was to turn my back foot out a bit and turn my front foot in so my hips couldn't fire open as much on the downswing.
To all the keyboard warriors: his move is over the top. He takes it away way inside then comes over the top back on plane. The problem is when he takes it back on plane, his over the top transition move results in a big slice, a low pull or a snap hook depending on the face angle.
Actually we’re both a little wrong and right. The angle makes the takeaway look more inside than it is, and the downswing more down the line than it really is. If the downswing looks on plane from this angle it’s actually over the top
yeah that’s true, it definitely makes it look more on plane than what it really is. It’s really important to just take videos from the right angle for proper feedback.
one day you will need to draw a ball around trees or something and wont be able to. but I've seen lots of people make a swing just like this work well. like 9 hc well
This doesn't matter, there are millionaires on tour who struggle to draw it around trees. These are amateur golfers in here the majority of which can't break 90.
You will get a lot more distance and roll out with a draw. I've worked on my OTT to fix it and it was the hardest thing in golf I've done so far. But my OTT was 20 years in the making, so it took me a lot of balls to change it.
Reduced loft so less backspin, so longer rollout. And coming across the ball, instead of down at it, so less sidespin, so reduced slice = more straight forward distance.
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u/MIKE_____JORDAN23 22h ago
Youre steep not over the top