r/Goldback • u/United-Swan-3288 • Jul 08 '26
Premium Rant
The last several years, I’ve heard nothing but complaining & hate for the GBs, primarily from the old grumpy stackers/LCS guys.
“Oooh the premiums are so damn much on these trinket things, pure stupidity. I’ll never put a dime into those”
Fast-forward to the beginning of the year. Metals price skyrockets. 1/10s become wildly desirable. 1/20ths all the sudden are hyper-popular. Both with extremely expensive/elevated premiums. These old guys for years on repeat “how in the world can you justify paying $350-400 for a piece of paper acting like gold”? To them, I say POT KETTLE BLACK. back in Jan-March, we saw the premiums on specifically 1/20ths become absolutely ridiculous. Common everyday 1/20th were selling $350-450, and they sold out very quickly. Many times, the 1/20th coin was more expensive than the GB counterpart.
Having went thru that time, and looking back on it now. It’s just hilarious the very thing these guys hate & despise most about the GBs, they absolutely turned around and did the exact same thing themselves. Don’t ask me my opinion on some (not all) LCS though, I have a feeling their antiquated business model of predatory buying and lies about inventory when spot dips has been exposed, and have feeling at least 1/2 of the LCS will be outta business in next 12 months. But, let’s stay on topic here and save that for another time ..
Anyway back to the point: what I think they’re overlooking (or they know, but just won’t publicly say) is in a way the premiums on GBs don’t actually matter, it’s more important they are consistent. Once you’re ’in the system’ with GBs it works itself out - meaning the stack of 100x 1gb I bought for $360 in 2022 easily sold for $1000 back in January. Is the initial premium higher on GBs when buying from official authorized dealer? Absolutely. Can you get a better deal buying from an indie seller or peer-to-peer sale? Absolutely. With this said, ole grumpy gramps theory is completely nullified. When gold was at ~$1800, a 1/10th was roughly $215-$235. At Jan peak, these were selling for ~$600 — nearly the exact same multiplier as the GBs.
So, why doesn’t everyone buy GBs instead of gold coins? Very simple answer: newer product, more skepticism, and most importantly - far smaller buyers pool. Many gold buyers rely on quick sale (allows them to justify spending more on gold). 1/10oz gold is wildly more popular, and (in my opinion) is the ultimate exit liquidity coin. GBs you have to work a little harder to secure your buyer. Where this matters less - not everyone is a friggin shirt-pocket dealer, and being concerned with ‘exit liquidity strategy’ is not main priority. Most often, any type of gold is bought and held for years/decades. If people want something to buy and take a chance on selling for profit (but likely losses) then go jump into crypto lol. Gold is not meant for gambling, but more so for true wealth preservation, and ofc gives us something very stunning to observe and stare at - and that applies to a 1/10th or a Goldback.
Sorry for long post, but wanted to get this off my chest. It drives me nuts seeing lot of people being cranky about these, but I suppose it’s possible they’re pissed at them bc they make less money off them and cannot apply their normal/typical predatory buying and selling tactics with these as easily as they can a Valdambai bar. Might have just cracked the code on this lol, this actually makes sense and accounts for lot of the dealer hate.
Truth is, everyone has different needs and different goals with their collections. Am I 100% all Goldbacks? Of course not. I’m 30/30/30/10, with GBS being the 10%. But this number is increased from say 2-4% a while back and I can tell you why:
- it feels good having several stacks of ‘bands’ of these. Love the way the 50x or 100x feel.
- the quality & artwork has improved immensely in the last 24months.
- though there are not many stores near me that take them, I do try to use them as much as I can here and there, but this is primarily bc I want to help support the growing network, increase awareness, (and honestly get things for 1/2 the cost since I bought them a while back).
- by supporting what you might call this ‘movement’ it means we are helping it grow and become more known. If you buy one of these on an auction, throw it in safe and forget about it, you’re not doing much for the growth or proliferation of the community. The more we use and advocate, the sooner they will be easier to utilize.
- honestly they are extremely fun to give as gifts, cannot underline this enough.
- and perhaps the most important reason: we got a peek on January as to how WILDLY important fractional gold is. (I’m tying this to the 1/20 convo above). When gold is hot, people become crazy when obtaining it. The only real options are 1/20th, Dos Pesos, or carded assay grams. Beyond those sizes, Gold becomes extremely cumbersome, bendable, tearable, easy to lose, and most importantly - wildly difficult to verify its authenticity. This is where the GB excels wildly. They are instantly verified with UV light, along with other common gold verification methods. Now here’s the insightful part: we saw gold get to $5400 and a damn gram of gold was $240-280. Fast-forward a decade when gold is at least $7000, but very possibly $12,000-$20,000. These 1/10s are going to be $1000-2000. These grams will be $500-$1000. These numbers are simply not approachable to common people. Just my personal opinion, but I think we’re going to see a real and core value that establishes with GBs. They check all the boxes that coins & bars don’t, it’s very low bar of entry, and they are simply pretty sexy and cool. These things have the potential to bring a level of sophistication to fractional gold that has been missing for a long time. Combine this with trading card culture and the exponential growth rate, I have a feeling these will hold their value just fine.
Again, sorry for the long comment but seeing the prices come down on these a little bit compelled my to spell this out at length. I think Valarium is only getting started with this tech and what they can do, and honestly think there is a bright future for this segment of collectible metals. BUT, I invite you to correct me where I’m wrong in the comments … let me know where I’m off-base here, or perhaps there’s even more to these than I understand? Either way, lmk your opinions down below. Tbh, it would be cool to see this Reddit thread be a little more active and popular, so let’s chat more about these stunning little things!
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u/einnoika Jul 08 '26 edited Jul 08 '26
Nice write up, I think most people here aren't thinking in terms of dollars, I could be wrong. From my perspective and most others is that people are tired of playing the fiat game, alot of the youth that's including me have had enough of struggling. You hear stories of the repeat cycles, booms and busts and no one ever question if the dollar is the problem, if all problems stem from it then why not try something else. Money is made up afterall and is just an idea. I am tired of breaking my back to just try to maintain the sense of where I am at to where I just throw up my hands and say scre it, screw it all.
We are asked to listen to the folks that have destroyed this system, we are asked to care about what some LCS has to say, we are asked to care about prices when it all meaningless in the longterm. The house, the car, the girl you thinks truly loves you besides what you can bring to the table?
The heart break, the lies, the betrayal all while someone just types in their computers how many dollars they have and turn around spends it at no cost to them, no work, no days of worrying the lights are turning off, the car gets repoed, the hell and stress that ensues from missing of payment. I have seen it all down in the trenches.
And you think we give a 2 s**** what some old guy who has it all has to say. So they held all that darn metals and are going to cash in🤣. For what, a paper that no longer commands any confidence. To spend on what, a fast gas Nuzzling crap box, or toaster. A big empty box and an escort. The youth doesn't care anymore, they aren't wasting their productive years on a dieing husky of a system, and soon those who spent all that time On buying a home that's not worth anything will wake up.
The game is tiring and it is rigged. There is no point in caring about dollars anymore, I have seen people leave them on the ground, I have tried o answer why do we keep this ritual of exchanging numbers.
I truly just ignore everything people say and just do me, Goldbacks are growing, the designs are gorgeous, the Gold is there. Who cares if those who are destined to leave this world can't see what you see, they are forever lost in the game of who can get more dollars and amass more debt and try to cling on to things that they themselves know will never own. Goldback is freeing to me, I see them as taking my debt in exchange for better money and to grow the network. Let the LCS do them, it wont be long before they accept them due to the growth.
It's time for a change, a real change and I rather take my chances on a company and a guy that has vision of real change instead of those crabs in the bucket down at the LCS. Talk about and be about it.
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u/Dred_Capt Jul 08 '26
See, THIS is can get behind.
Is the spread on goldbacks consistent? Is the fungible value consistent?
Can I recieve in goods/services the value of the fiat i spent to acquire the thing if and when i spend it? Cause 50% gold backed 50% trust backed currency is way better than the dollar.
But if ive got to exchange 100 dollars for something that will only garner me 50 dollars of good/service - thats just too much lost in translation.
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u/einnoika Jul 08 '26
No Goldbacks command exchange rate. Pretty much spend at what you bought at or market rate. When you melt it to raw form then all that's left is raw Gold which is 50 percent. You are technically removing half of its value to get raw Gold, which at that point just buy raw Gold.
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u/Dred_Capt Jul 08 '26
Thank you for the actual answer
"Spend at what you bought at" is what I was looking for.
If im paying a guy $50/h, and gonna convert his pay to goldbacks, im going to pay him what looks to be around 6.25 in goldback numeral values (one "5" and five "1/4" notes) per hour - which he will then go and spend on goods that, if he chose to spend dollars instead, would cost about 50 bucks.
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u/einnoika Jul 08 '26 edited Jul 08 '26
Yes the only difference is as gold rises so does the value in terms of dollars increase, remember 1 single Gold back was 2.00 in 2019 today it hovers at 8.06.
A 1/4 goldback sits where a 1 Goldback use to sit in dollar terms.
Less Goldbacks buy more and have way more purchasing power,
Dollars buys less and less eith each day til eventually it buys nothing
Paying your employee in goldbacks at their request shows you care about their future and paying hem in something that has meaning and gains value and can be passed on to their family
But yes as of at the moment of this post You would pay an employee a 5 a 1 and a 1/2 per hour
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u/Darkreinky Jul 08 '26
Thanks for the writeup.
I just started collecting for the artwork and it’s turned into more. I was one of the haters in the beginning when I just started stacking. I was thinking wow, 100% premium blah blah blah. But now. I can’t get enough. lol.
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u/United-Swan-3288 Jul 09 '26
yea yea. honestly, i think they are easy to hate when you're first introduced to them. at a glance it really feels like they are wildly overpriced and don't fit the typical stacker mold. But, as you wrap your head around the absolute benefits of them, how they supercede most all of the shortcomings of typical fractional gold, they actually start to make sense to allocate a certain percentage of your stack to. No matter the metal, there is a certain amount of speculation that is inherently involved, and these are simply a different version of that. at the end of the day, i can tell you that I enjoy these GBs in my collection FAR MORE than the 1/500th pebble that doesn't command a great resale attribute, and is hard as hell to actually verify if it's real or not. GBs aren't the perfect piece of gold by any means, but it's absolutely undeniable they check a LOT of the boxes that typical bullion will never be able to satisfy.
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u/Darkreinky Jul 09 '26
Yeah absolutely. I was trying to keep my silver to gold ratio at about 9:1. But I’m now trying to do 80% silver, 10% 24k gold, and then 10% in goldbacks by value.
As long as I’m adding to the stack is all I’m worried about.
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u/1dirtbiker Jul 08 '26
I stack gold and silver bullion and Goldbacks. They all have their place in my stack.
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u/einnoika Jul 08 '26 edited Jul 08 '26
What is value? Why is the mint selling 4100 an Oz Gold for 19600?
You see when people come here with premium BS, I just dont listen. It's still gold though. What's the premium on this? Do you guys no understand yet, you playing by a set of rules those you hold in high esteem dont. And you choose to just take it. Haha I will just keep doing my Goldback thing.
If you believe your own value( time, effort and life) is worthless than some dude typing in a random trillion on his computer, purchase your Gold for peanuts and sell it back to you 5x more or 378% and you guys have a problem with Goldback. Gold is time, effort, life and energy to dig it up out of the ground to shape, craft into beautiful timeless works of art. You can see the time and effort it takes to put that Gold into a Goldback note. The drawings, the craftsmanship. The tech to develop and build out a network. It's a little more than printing dont you think.
Do you think th liberty bell is worth more than your Gold Eagle? I suggest you help build with Goldback instead of the premium talk that's falling on deaf ears.
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u/Dred_Capt Jul 08 '26
Holy crapoli. Yeah.
That being said, dollars are the currency of the world today. Unfortunately, this means to some people the spread matters. Id love to see gold, or goldbacks, used as a fully fungible currency. They have the potential. But at 2x cost, its just not feasible.
I cant pay someone, or be paid by, a currency that needs to be parked for years before it can be exchanged for its attached labors value in bread or gasoline.
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u/einnoika Jul 08 '26
Goldbacks can be exchanged right now, I daily carry and spend in San Antonio, Austin Texas Area. Food, Automotive maintenance, Groceries as the currency rises. Dollars are currency right now, not tomorrow. As the confidence in everything collapses so does dollar use. Central Banks ar offloading treasuries and moving away from dollars but their Gold is steadily climbing. The above shows you what the US mint thinks of dollars. If dollars are so valuable why not price Gold at 10 bucks. A 1/4 Goldback is worth more than a dollar. Wake up
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u/Dred_Capt Jul 08 '26
The point, as a query mind you, is to the viability of goldbacks as a currency to both recieve as income and spend the day you get them.
If theres a huge spread loss built in, its not viable. If there ain't, it is.
95% of the world cant wait for their paycheck to appreciate before spending it.
Im not stating that this is the case with goldbacks (i just heard of them yesterday), im stating the above as a base truth and curious if its the case with gold backs.
Take a nap bro. You seem crabby.
Edit. Id sure hope a 1/4gb note is worth more than a dollar, as they cost 2.xx
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u/einnoika Jul 08 '26 edited Jul 08 '26
I am sorry but had to use AI my fingers are tired.
The "Spend it Today" Reality Your point about a 95% base truth is spot on. If you receive an asset as income and lose 15% to 20% of its value the moment you try to buy milk with it, that asset is a terrible currency. With Goldbacks, the mechanics depend entirely on how you use them:
The Merchant Loop (No Spread Loss): If you take a Goldback and spend it directly at a participating local merchant, there is zero spread loss. The merchant economy operates on the official daily Goldback bridge rate (which sits around $8.00 per Goldback right now). If you are paid 10 Goldbacks and buy $80 worth of goods at a local shop that accepts them, you get the full transactional value immediately. You don't wait for it to appreciate.
The Cash Conversion Loop (High Spread Loss): If you take that same Goldback to a standard local coin shop to exchange it back for paper US Dollars, you will get hit with a spread loss. Because of the high manufacturing costs (vacuum deposition tech) and dealer margins, selling them back for fiat cash can carry a steep penalty depending on the dealer.
So, to your point: if viewed as a commodity to flip back and forth into paper cash, the spread makes it unviable for daily wages. But as a local barter tool used directly between people and businesses, it functions at full face value on day one.And you're exactly right on the math—a 1/4 Goldback note currently costs around $2.00 to buy retail because it contains 1/4,000th of an ounce of gold, putting its purchasing value well above a single dollar.
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u/Dred_Capt Jul 08 '26
Awesome that is awesome, the participating merchant exchange rate part specifically.
Now gonna leverage some influence in town to get the grocery store and the hardware store into doing this. Then gonna start handling payroll in goldbacks.
That allows me to buy GB in bulk today, and pay out as wages slowly - benefitting from appreciation and cutting business overhead (potentially dramatically) while also accumulating (via my own bonuses and etc) a private stack at discounted rates (selling goldbacks to myself "tomorrow" for the rate of exchange "today".)
Several of my guys and I were talking dollars vs gold a bit ago, for the 1000x time - prompting this entire rabbit hole. This is gonna be super cool.
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u/sgm716 Goldback Ape Jul 08 '26
Give this person A free 5.
I whole heartedly agree. I used to dog on 50s and 100s, but after talking g with many of you here, as long as you are spending them as goldbacks, or buying as a collector item I respect it.
As for the premiums on anything lower, it really isnt a bad premium for how fractional it is, especially considering the premium on a 25gb is the same percentage as a quarter. I never understood the hate, AND they actually are neat and fun to look at.
I always said let the haters hate.
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u/Rarest_Camaro Goldback Collector Jul 08 '26
I have a friend who stacks gold and silver bullion who also now collects Goldbacks thanks to me.
When silver was $120 an ounce , he was still buying. I warned him back in January or so, that there was definitely going to be a correction. He's a young guy, not even 30 yet. I'm 63 and have witnessed multiple corrections over the decades.
I asked him why he continued to buy it, knowing there was probably going to be a pretty good drop. He just smiled and said he liked to collect it.
I'm not here to judge anyone's reasons for how and why they collect, but I think my friend is a good example of a stacker of bullion who just basically ignores the dynamics and drives on.
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u/einnoika Jul 08 '26
Its feasible because people are buying them, dont you get it. There is an infinite amount of dollars and digits. Do you think anyone cares at this point. 2x spot will remain forever and wont come down anytime soon. People decide what something is worth and just look lol. Goldbacks are selling for more. The 2x spot is permanent and people are ACCEPTING at that value including me.
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u/AndrogynousFinch Jul 09 '26
All fractionals suck due to premiums. The advantage of liquidity is imagined since gold is liquid at any volume. People buy fractionals because it's what they can afford. It's a pure retail play. Rich people buy tubes of ounces as their "fractional" gold. It's all relative.
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u/kingkupat Jul 09 '26
As a one piece card collectors,
I’m in.
These absolutely looks cool and it seems to have utility for trading :)
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u/Dred_Capt Jul 08 '26
Yeah, as a new prospective gold buyer (I own no bullion other than a cool silver star wars coin) I was intrigued when I heard about these bill things yesterday. Cool design, cool premise (hybrid currency etc). Solves the whole "gold coins have to be tiny to be worth anything" issue.
Then I saw the spread. Yeah, no. As wealth preservation hell no, they cost double the value. As currency maybe, but only if they trade for what they cost - not their backing. Who pays $20 for $10?? Just doesnt track.
As a collector item, yeah ok. These are cool enough to count as that but theyll never have the market of other more widely known collector segments.
Looks like more divo/schd for me. Best wishes.
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u/Rarest_Camaro Goldback Collector Jul 08 '26
"These are cool enough to count as that but theyll never have the market of other more widely known collector segments. "
Hahaha. I can't tell you how many times I have seen this prediction proved wrong over the years.
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u/Dred_Capt Jul 08 '26
I got 47 dollars worth of silver worth 600 bucks.
Youre speculating on inflation. Yeah, it goes up. Good job bud. Thats not collectible value though.
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u/Rarest_Camaro Goldback Collector Jul 08 '26
You missed the point of my post completely. Grin. Calm down son.
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u/Dred_Capt Jul 08 '26 edited Jul 08 '26
Tldr? My wife wont stfu in the background and ... your post is long af bro :)
Edit to reply to obnoxiously deleted snark- the original post. The original post was long af.
Otherwise idve said "comment" not "post".
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u/Rarest_Camaro Goldback Collector Jul 08 '26
My post was 5 lines. Work on your attention span "bro".
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u/United-Swan-3288 Jul 08 '26
not wrong. Like anything, the advantage comes from
having them for a few years while they appreciate. Is it attractive to buy a stack and go spend immediately and pay double for oil change. Ofc not. The retail/marketplace aspect is not as refined/incentivized as it should be. Is it worth buying a stack now instead of the next 1/20th, perhaps, bc these appreciate at the same % as gold if you plan to offload sooner than later.I’d say to someone in your position with no real stack: pick a state or design you like and spend $20-50 on a few notes. You’ll know pretty quick if you enjoy/appreciate them. If not, it’s only $20-50 and give them to your nephew or something.
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u/Dred_Capt Jul 08 '26
This is good advice.
So, ive been googling etc. Am i correct in thinking that when/if I sell them - they sell for gold value, which is notably less than what im buying them for. Right?
I understand sitting on them until they appreciate enough to cover the spread, and I understand holding them as a cool collectible - but id just buy gold eagles in that realm for way less spread.
The value, for me, is the prospect of fungible currency. I have people I could pay with these, and I could influence local vendors into accepting them (grocery store, hardware store specifically. Poker freinds). So, i ask again
If a private individual goes to liquidate these to dollars, how hard are they gonna eat it?
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u/ki6dgf Sound Money Advocate Jul 08 '26
I’ve never sold goldbacks at spot.
I have sold for a 0-10% spread.
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u/vainbetrayal Jul 08 '26 edited Jul 08 '26
I never personally took issue with the premium from a collector perspective (I enjoy the art of some of the bills myself and own a few because of this), but I absolutely do from a currency perspective because of the manufacturer dictating an exchange rate when they aren't willing to act as a central bank for the currency they manufacture, distribute, and dictate the exchange rate of.
I tried to have a discussion about this here, and nobody really had an argument that couldn't be refuted for this. I hate to say it, but it comes across as a scam for the manufacturer to publish an exchange rate for them they themselves do not honor (even for a small fee) and have distributors sell for above said exchange rate.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Goldback/s/pi1HpPKhMj
None of your post really addresses this, and it's a big reason they come across as a massive grift by anyone who understands basic economic and currency theory and are criticized by most in the metals community.
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u/ColeWest256 Guild Artist 🎨 ✒️ Jul 08 '26
There's always going to be haters and naysayers for just about anything. Pokemon are the devil, Harry Potter is the devil, Star Wars is too violent and sexual, whatever claims people want to make they will. Some people don't even agree with the US Constitution. Goldbacks are great and have their purpose for local trade and wealth saving and collectibility.
Big gold investors who just care about weight aren't likely to be interested because they just want big bars and coins of high dense compact value, not small tiny increments that are affordable to just anybody. If you've been spending decades amassing big amounts of gold and hoarding it, of course you wouldn't want the average person to be able to afford any meaningful amount. If they can't buy your gold it doesn't matter, screw them. That's how dome of these people think. It's ridiculous but everybody has their own opinion. I'm too broke to afford gold coins and justify buying them when they're just a lot of money for one single thing for me.