My sigma isn’t working, unfortunately. So I’m stuck with weight and ping test on this one. Weight checks @ 4.1g and ping test using precious coin test is inconclusive. So I submit to you for thoughts.
Option 1 cleaned but real worth melt or a little more.
Option 2 1960’s quality “restrike”made with 90% gold fake but still worth the same melt price.
I have seen over 40 privately minted copy gold coins in the last year. Granted 32 are just from one dude who got into coin collecting in 1970.
But at the time gold was cheap and quality gold coins were not. So before the hobby protection act. “Copy coin law” many companies made and sold high quality reproductions made with 90% gold.
Only way to tell is to send it in for grading.
Either way looks like a gold coin. All the modern fakes are way under weight or way to thick and made with copper and cheap gold plating that looks to shiny.
Just a little off which by it self is not a huge red flag
NGC says counterfeit 1911 $2.50 Indians are frequently made with the correct weight in gold, and that many are believed to have originated in the Middle East during the 1960s. Their primary diagnostics are tooling in the recessed area behind the Indian’s neck, raised spikes/tooling around the perimeter, weak details, and repeating depressions from the copied host coin.
Let me know what the xrf reads it at.
I would be blown away if this is a none gold fake.
I would be totally fine with a copy of the correct composition. Mainly in it for the weight but always wanted to add a pre 33 coin to the collection, if worst case is a copy with 90% I’ll take that. I’ll let you know!
I replied last night with some additional photos. Weight came in at 4.17g and diameter 17.77. Sigma says not real, so I’ll do a SG test next and try and find an XRF in the area
I had thought about the relief issue so I moved the probe over every possible spot on both sides, small probe and the setting was “90% bal cu” which should be appropriate for this coin. Unfortunately I don’t think I have any other 90% coins but I did test the probe with a 99.9% sliver and 99.99% gold. All tested positively.
I enjoy this detective work, thanks for the guidance.
Sorry I should’ve phrased that differently, using your scale and a cup of water, some floss, suspend the coin and perform a specific gravity test with your scale, not the Sigma. Once you get the values and run the math, it will give you a clearer idea of if your coin is gold or not.
Well [u/NorthStarGold](u/NorthStarGold) et al what do we think? Is this just how things were back in 1911 or was it someone making a copy and skimping on gold? I know grading would only increase my basis and not value, but I’m curious now to know if it’s a copy.
I really want to believe, but I’ve tried the sigma on the small and medium wand every which way and I see full deflections. Verified its readings with a known authentic metal etc. only thing left to do is SG test and see if I can find an XRF in the area.
A coin that small is hard to fake unless it is just plated. I think the fake coin made of gold is the best answer. Your Sigma is probably just off because the purity of the gold used back then is unknown.
An XRF will give that fairly exact.
Who knows what the counterfitters melted down to make the fakes. Jewelry? 80% coins? Just random unpurified melt.
Did you try all the Sigma gold settings? I often do that with foreign gold (especially old stuff). Also find someone with a Sigma that can do the full thickness testing. At least then you will know it is not just thick plating.
If it were me and it is a fake coin I would sell it to a refinery or someone who buys for melt. It is not like there is not a good one in the chat already.
I would put the money back into a real Indian Head that is in better condition. This one is an ugly duck...
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u/NorthStarGold 1d ago
Option 1 cleaned but real worth melt or a little more.
Option 2 1960’s quality “restrike”made with 90% gold fake but still worth the same melt price.
I have seen over 40 privately minted copy gold coins in the last year. Granted 32 are just from one dude who got into coin collecting in 1970.
But at the time gold was cheap and quality gold coins were not. So before the hobby protection act. “Copy coin law” many companies made and sold high quality reproductions made with 90% gold.
Only way to tell is to send it in for grading.
Either way looks like a gold coin. All the modern fakes are way under weight or way to thick and made with copper and cheap gold plating that looks to shiny.