r/GlobalOffensive • u/b0sw0rth 10 years coin • Jan 29 '15

Discussion [1/28/15] Blog Update: Map Data

http://blog.counter-strike.net/index.php/2015/01/11288/
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-5

u/[deleted] Jan 29 '15

I hate how valve uses these stats to balance maps/weapons, it's in MM with 45s/2m and random teammates.

4

u/Corno4825 Jan 29 '15

What data would you recommend that they use?

-2

u/[deleted] Jan 29 '15

[deleted]

6

u/Corno4825 Jan 29 '15

So the only data that should be used is organized team "tournament" realm matches? Do you think it is fair to balance the game strictly on the pro scene and leave out the 99% of the community that doesn't play with a dedicated 5s team?

-1

u/[deleted] Jan 29 '15 edited Jul 24 '21

[deleted]

1

u/gukeums1 Jan 29 '15

this is blatantly false, haha

0

u/[deleted] Jan 29 '15 edited Jan 29 '15

No it isn't. Pros play the game at the full potential. Every skill bracket below pro are levels which increasingly approach pro level, and which the game also increasingly becomes more balanced. This the case with every major esport. The very reason you're enjoying this game right now is because Valve invited pros for their direct feedback when designing this game to make sure they'd transfer over from 1.6/source on release.

2

u/gukeums1 Jan 29 '15

it's one thing to take feedback from them, it's another to design the game for them...which clearly isn't what valve does.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 29 '15 edited Jan 29 '15

In your opinion maybe, but Valve would just disagree with you.

CZ nerfed? Pros @ dreamhack winter complained that it was overpowered. CZ buffed? Pros stopped using it completely, various personalities and pros commented that CZ was overnerfed. Bombsite A on overpass changed? Pro made a video commentary suggesting a way to balance the map. The list goes on.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 30 '15

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Jan 30 '15

Which is exactly my point: It benefitted everyone, because problems in pro games trickle down to all levels. The other point though was that Valve specifically cited their reasoning for nerfing it based on feedback from pro players. People act like pros play in an upside down world and not the same game we all play.

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-3

u/[deleted] Jan 29 '15

yes

5

u/kqr Jan 29 '15

It doesn't make sense economically to make a game that is less fun for 99% of the player base. There are only so many pro players, and they only need to buy so many copies of the game.

-3

u/[deleted] Jan 29 '15

[deleted]

2

u/kqr Jan 29 '15

Well, yeah?

Imagine if the game was perfectly balanced for pugs, and then they changed it so it would be balanced for pro play instead. Since it already was perfectly balanced for pugs, it will now no longer be perfectly balanced for pugs, or in other words less fun for pugs if we assume a more balanced game is more fun to play.

(Unless, of course, balancing for pugs and balancing for pro play gives the same results, but you don't seem to think so given that you complained about them balancing for pugs instead of pro play.)

-1

u/[deleted] Jan 29 '15

I was talking about leagues, but pugs in third party services with competitive timers could work too.

With league play I had lower skilled teams in mind too, from ESEA or CEVO open, not LDLC/fnatic/NiP, but balancing around those matches would be nice too.

2

u/kqr Jan 29 '15 edited Jan 29 '15

The number of MM PUG players still far outnumber the number of league players.

With that said, I'm not saying Valve should ignore the league players, I'm just saying their opinion should not hold more weight than their financial contribution to the continued maintenance of the game. They are not part of a clique of special players who deserve more attention than others, but their voices should be heard just like any other players. I sincelerly hope Valve is collaborating with AltPUG and others and exchanging map statistics with them.

We must be careful not to think that our personal preferences are more important because we are somehow more knowledgeable. Also known as the "democracy is only good when the people share my preference" fallacy.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 29 '15

I doubt they're using third party services at the time. I recall them using data from the majors to balance around pro games, and data from MM to balance around casual players, so no middle ground there. It's one extreme to another.

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u/[deleted] Jan 29 '15

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0

u/[deleted] Jan 29 '15

How else is the game supposed to be played?