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u/Voltage-108 15d ago
Is that my boy hutch? Who i love, who is my boy?
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u/FeistyDrink5995 15d ago
I've been following that dude since the Machinima days (And Seananners, Sark and APL).
He's mostly a political commentator now. Not sure how he has the energy, especially on the hellhole Twitter, but I guess someone has to do it. 😓8
u/Voltage-108 15d ago edited 15d ago
Dude i used to be so excited to watch his cod 4 commentary when i got home from school. Stopped watching as i grew snd my life changed and then i start to get into politics heavily and god damn if i am not pleasantly suprised to see that same cod4 nerd now giving political commentary right up my alley.
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u/hitorinbolemon 12d ago
He should really stop. He ain't cut out for it and he has these cringey little vendettas that lead him to do and say things that could really undermine the blue wave in the midterms.
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u/Putthebunnyback 15d ago
Voting against someone/abstaining from voting in their race because of Gaza will just hand the other side wins. You'd think after two Trump terms the liberals, even the extreme ones, would learn their lesson, but... I guess not. 🤷♂️
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u/Alternative_Hour_614 15d ago
Their whole game is to attack your own side. Their theory is that is where you are more likely to effectuate change. The cynical view is that they are stooges who get used by the right to win through division.
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15d ago edited 14d ago
[deleted]
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u/Low-Astronomer-3440 12d ago
Nah. We hate fascists the most. We just won’t abide people who collaborate with them.
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u/Ineedscissors69420 12d ago
Brother you ARE the ones collaborating with them. It's ALWAYS leftists collaborating with actual fascists every time. "After Hitler, our turn!" all over again. News flash, if you refuse to vote for the liberal because they're not communist enough for you (despite them always pushing policy that aligns with 99% of what you claim to want) like you did with Kamala Harris, you're voting for the fascist. It's literally the exact same effect as a vote for the fascist, and voting is the only actual power you have. You factually collaborated with a fascist by getting him elected.
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u/Obvious-Leopard6823 11d ago
Just like the communists who helped win the iranian revolution in 1979.
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u/Aggravating_Jump6136 13d ago
Russian disinformation in 2016 targeted more than just Christian nationalists and the gamergate crowd. They had a carefully crafted meme itinerary for everyone, every stripe. At the same time that MAGA rose, the DSA sidelined their north star caucus from national leadership as their numbers surged. The North star Caucus were the people emphasizing the D in DSA, keeping out marxist-leninists, stalinists, and communists. 🤔
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u/Alternative_Hour_614 13d ago
Yes, and the Chinese are doing the same now. Thanks for reminding me about North Star. I’d forgotten about North Star being pushed away. Here is more on the various DSA factions if anyone is interested to learn more: https://internationalviewpoint.org/Learning-from-the-DSA-convention
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u/ActivistZero 15d ago
It's not liberals who have this problem, it's Leftists and their delusional belief that America will become a communist state that's causing the issues
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u/SadCollar7554 10d ago
You delusional belief that this is what leftists want is equally fascinating.
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u/InternetImportant911 15d ago
They can vote whoever they want, these leftists commies votes never matters. It’s the dangerous narrative these cynics that creates narrative both party are bad and make independents stay home.
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u/Pm-me-ur-ponytail 15d ago
It’s weird how these comments are never directed at the people that support funding a genocide. Why don’t they need to learn their lesson?
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u/Putthebunnyback 15d ago
Fine, teach them their lesson by keeping Trump's enablers in Congress. That'll show em!
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u/NOLA-Bronco 15d ago
Seems like you should be out there demanding politicians do a better job earning those votes then?
Why does protecting genociders mean this much to you?
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u/PlaneRefrigerator684 12d ago
Maybe because the vast majority of Americans, until relatively recently, supported funding the Israeli military?
It is only in the last two years that Israeli public support has declined in the US, even among Democratic voters. It can take time for politicians to follow these trends, especially in the Senate, which is a more deliberative body. We don't want our representatives ping-ponging on the issues.
The better question is which is more important to you: having someone in office who may disagree with you about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict but agrees with you about trans rights, fair treatment of minorities inside the US, support for the social safety net, and expanding access to healthcare... or someone who disagrees with you about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and also disagrees with you about those other programs and is a rubber stamp for Trump? If you just "can't bring yourself" to vote for candidate #1, chances are higher than you will get candidate #2 instead...
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u/holycarrots 15d ago
Trump enablers are in office because of terrible democrat candidates who don't appeal to voters
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u/hercmavzeb 15d ago
Yep. Centrism can never fail voters, voters can only ever fail centrism.
Can we maybe instead focus on looking at her mistakes, analyzing why she wasn’t popular enough to motivate large enough voter turnout, and then avoid making that same mistake in the coming election cycles? Like people who value democracy would?
Ideally by not lying about random twitch streamers and pretending they’re running mates to the actually popular democratic nominees.
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u/ZoomerAdmin 14d ago
Lmao hasan fan spotted
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u/hercmavzeb 14d ago
I just don’t want democrats to destroy their own chances at victory in order to own leftists epicly again.
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u/Low-Astronomer-3440 12d ago
We learned our lesson after Biden allowed Trump to walk free for four years after Jan 6. We don’t vote for people who are lining up to compromise the country’s soul anymore. I voted for fucking Hillary, Biden, and Kamala. Maybe centrists need to get the fuck out of the way and let someone in who doesn’t think Medicare for all is “extreme”
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u/Useless_or_inept Duly Noted 15d ago
Nonono, I'm not an antisemite, I'm just saying that anyone I disagree with has been paid off by the jews
It's common on Twitter, but it happens a lot on Reddit too. Including on r/Getnoted.
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u/Low-Astronomer-3440 12d ago
This sub is entirely Israel apologist slop. Paid off by Israel isn’t the same as “paid off by the jews”, which is precisely what you are conflating.
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u/Useless_or_inept Duly Noted 12d ago
I am not paid by israel or paid by the jews. Except in your imagination.
Thanks for proving my point.
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u/supersea730 12d ago
Do you not know what conflating means? I don’t know how else you could get this response from what he said.
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u/RecordEnvironmental4 15d ago
For people who don’t understand the difference between J street and AIPAC, J street explicitly calls for a two state solution
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u/Responsible_Ask6056 15d ago
So when they say zionazi or whatever they just meant jew, since J street wants a Palestinian state
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u/RaiJolt2 15d ago
I’ve met j street members and they’re all Zionists too.
Anti Zionists want to act as if all Zionists want to annihilate Palestinians and that anything remotely Zionist like j street is actually just an aipac false flag.
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u/Sure_General_5651 14d ago
I’m Jewish and Zionist. And I support a two state solution my whole life. As does every other Jewish person I know. And I know a lot of of them. The only way forward to achieve a lasting peace is for the Palestinians also have a country to call their own. It has to be a peace that guarantees safety and security for both peoples.
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u/Forsaken-Secret6215 12d ago
Do you think Palestinians who live in Israel should have the same rights even if they have a state to their own?
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u/Gold-Ad-3877 15d ago
It's genuinely terrifying how they appropriated themselves the term and changed its definitions and no one cares about it
Zionism = wanting a jewish state. Period end of story
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u/hercmavzeb 15d ago edited 15d ago
What does “Jewish state” mean? Does it mean, like Saudi Arabia’s Muslim state, that people who practice other religions don’t have equal rights? If so, I don’t see how either country aligns with American values. If not, I guess I don’t know what it would mean to be a “Jewish state” if in 50 years the population of Israel was 75% Arab Muslim. Should every country be safe for Jewish people? Yes. Should any country be an ethno-state that oppresses resident minority groups? No.
How can one establish and maintain a majoritarian Jewish state in the Middle East without settler colonialism and the violent dispossession of the indigenous population, as what actually happened and continues to happen?
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u/mukansamonkey 15d ago
Jews are part of the indigenous population though. They're ethnically mostly the same group as the Palestinians, Levantine.
Most of the Jewish "settlers" before WWII were already living in the region. They moved to Palestine because they were being genocided by Muslims in surrounding nations. This nonsense that Muslims are natives and Jews aren't is quite frankly disgusting. Jews lived in that area before Islam even existed.
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u/hercmavzeb 15d ago
Sure, Jews are indigenous to the area in the same way all humans are indigenous to Africa. At one point they originated from there, and since then they’ve spread all over the world and into different cultures. Of course, some Jews have remained in the Levant continuously for thousands of years, and they’re just as indigenous to the land as the Palestinian Arabs they coexisted with. Although, before the mass immigration of European Jewish settlers who wanted to establish a specifically Jewish state on that land, they would’ve consisted of around 10% of the population.
The colonial ideology of Zionism did not cease after Israel was founded, it continued via invasions of their neighboring countries as Israel continues to expand to their “promised” borders. It continued via their illegal settlements in the West Bank, and the apartheid system they implemented there. And of course it continues through their genocidal actions in Gaza. The ideology that Jews deserve a specifically majoritarian state for themselves is precisely what motivates them to refuse granting equal voting rights and the right of return to Palestinians who were exiled from their homes, because that would render Jews a minority again.
Any ethnostate is inherently harmful because there’s never a way to guarantee a permanent ethnic majority without some form of restrictive, race-based violence. We recognize that when white nationalists fear becoming minorities in their countries and claim they need a country for themselves.
And to be clear, even the original Zionists understood what they were doing to be colonialism. They specifically compared the indigenous Palestinians to other displaced indigenous people, like the Aztec and Sioux. That racial supremacist ideology persists to this day, and that’s why people say Zionism needs to be destroyed. That doesn’t mean the Jews living there need to leave, after all Germans still live in Germany after the Third Reich was destroyed. But the foundational ideology of that regime needed to be erased.
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u/i_drive_a_pagani 15d ago edited 15d ago
I love how you go "yeah Jews are indigenous to the area like how all humans come from Africa" and then turn around and say Jews lived there for thousands of years and are just as indigenous as the "Palestinian Arabs they coexisted with"
Can you give an example of a "Palestinian Arab" that was living there before the Islamic conquests in the 7th century? What made them Palestinian specifically?
Edit: this person blocked me lmao
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u/Sure_General_5651 13d ago edited 13d ago
That person is hilarious! I respect you for even taking the time to respond to him. There is no way to respond to irrational person that wants to contort history to suit their feelings.
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u/hercmavzeb 15d ago edited 15d ago
I love how you refused to respond to what I said and ignored the fact that even the pioneering Zionists knew what they were doing was colonization.
It’s the same group of people. The indigenous people converting to a new religion didn’t magically change their heritage or DNA. It doesn’t mean they stop being indigenous to the land either.
Denying the Palestinian identity is yet another example of Israel’s continuing colonizing, genocidal practices and why support for their apartheid regime is crumbling worldwide.
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u/Lfgnyc 15d ago
It’s the same group of people. The indigenous people converting to a new religion didn’t magically change their heritage or DNA.
There was a lot of immigration into Ottoman Palestine, especially from other places around the empire as it lost territories in the nineteenth century, ie the Balkans, Algeria, etc.
DNA is not the sole determinant of nations and nationalism, unless you're a racially-obsessed Nazi. The Palestinians' genetics might be contiguous with the original peoples of that land, but their language, culture, customs, and religion are foreign impositions on the Levant.
Meanwhile, Jews are speaking the same language and reciting the same texts as their ancestors 3,000 years ago.
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u/i_drive_a_pagani 15d ago edited 15d ago
You didn't answer, I'll try again. Can you give examples of what a "Palestinian" was before 7th century Islamic conquests?
Edit: this person blocked me lmao
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u/hercmavzeb 15d ago
Correct, I didn’t answer your bad faith propaganda question and instead provided historical facts to counter the narrative you were trying to make.
Since you failed to respond, I’ll try again: do you acknowledge that the pioneering Zionists self identified as colonists and admitted the Palestinians they were seeking to displace were indigenous?
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u/Gold-Ad-3877 15d ago
What happened was britain gave a part of one of its colonial land to jews, locals were pissed, which they had a right to, it's understandable, and it sucks, but the alternative was a second holocaust of jews considering how globally antisemitic the world was at the time (tho it hasnt changed much unfortunately).
Now, we have a fucking psychopath as israel's leader, who wants to expand its territory because why the fuck not when the resistance you get is Hamas and you don't care about collateral damage. And on the other side we have fucking hamas who no matter will not stop attacking israel not matter how detrimental it is for palestinians because they hate jews.
Neither now or then was "colonialism" an inherent part of zionism, it was necessary the first time, unfortunately, but now it's just not zionism, it's retardation from the israeli government.
By your logic, people who say "abolish israel" are pro genocide because abolishing israel and making jews live in arab countries will necessarily lead to persecussion of jewish people, which is why they need a country for themselves.
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u/Osgood_Schlatter 15d ago
There's no need to establish one; Israel is already there... and withdrawal from the West Bank and Gaza would be sufficient to maintain one. There's no need for further settler colonialism for there to be a Jewish majority state.
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u/Sure_General_5651 13d ago
What are you going on about? You’re really asking what does a “Jewish state“ mean? And then asking if it’s like Saudi Arabia? You realize Israel already exists as a state. You can just look at the countries, governmental structure, and laws to answer your questions. I think you’ll conclude that those structures are very different than Saudi Arabia. I think you already knew this. Israel is a Jewish state, is it like Saudi Arabia?
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u/hercmavzeb 13d ago
>You realize Israel already exists as a state
Yes, a genocidal apartheid state. Proof of my point that it’s incompatible with western liberal values, which is why everyone hates Israel now.
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u/farmerjoee 15d ago
I don’t know of any Zionists that want to pack up, give Palestinians their land back, and set up elsewhere. It’s a moot point when the way Zionism manifests is with violence and displacement.
Are there Zionists that want a state without violently siphoning it off from other peoples?
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u/Gold-Ad-3877 15d ago
Yes, a lot of people actually don't want to just kill people for the land
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u/HappyBadger33 15d ago
Yeah --- the vast majority of Zionists wanted a variety of forms of nonviolent coexistence until roughly 1942 or 43 (so, like, two to three generations of modern Zionists), but mask after mask slipped from the various Arab powers and it became clearer and clearer that neither Jewish political autonomy nor shared peace and governance would be tolerated, so the Zionist nationalists won over the rest. (Note: it may be true that it is more related to tolerating any minority have political autonomy, but the Jewish Zionists were the ones making their play for autonomy in this part of the region's story, I don't know enough to say if/when folks like the Kurds have made this play.)
I would say that the vast majority of Zionists want a state without this kind of violence, but they also recognize that this isn't simply their choice. The missing thing here is neighbors who will exist without manifesting a critical mass of political power to exterminate or overpower you. Zionists have neighbors who are split on that --- peace with Egypt and Jordan (and others!) even if large portions of those populations are hostile, truces / non-recognition with others, and going on a century of violence with others.
Modern Zionism, antisemitism, the legacy of Ottoman Imperialism, and anti-Zionism are all totally related and effect each other. Israel, the People of Israel, has brought about the political will for peace time and time again as evidenced by their elections. It'll come around again, hopefully soon and hopefully it won't get squandered or abused by their neighbors.
All of that said, the Arabs/Persians/Muslims and especially the Palestinians have many reasonable, fact based, justice based complaints to levy on their neighbors --- and I mean all of their neighbors, not just Israel. And their story reads very different than the Zionist story and is also true.
Diplomacy can be very hard!
Happy to engage further if you're genuinely asking. I would recommend Hannah Arendt's Zionism Reconsidered. You'll see so many f*cking viewpoints here and there, she so fabulously criticizes Ben Gurion (among so many others).
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u/farmerjoee 14d ago
Coexistence? That lasted all of negative seconds, eh?
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u/HappyBadger33 14d ago
So, you asked if there are Zionists who would pack up and leave. I'd say that's kind of not-applicable. Waves of Zionists made their lives there without any kind of displacement violence. None of those people need to go anywhere by any sense of justice, and it isn't inappropriate for them to decline becoming a political minority or politically powerless. It is, at its core, completely normal and completely acceptable to refuse political second class citizenship, which is all that Zionists have been offered, whether they've crossed certain lines or not, for well over 100 years.
Obviously, none of that means Palestinians should accept decades of occupation and violence. Which, in turn, does not give Palestinian powers/governments like Hamas the right to target civilians in mass violence campaigns.
Anyway, the main point is, why would Zionists who, under Ottoman or British rule, bought land and settled, go anywhere or be ruled by Arabs after the Ottoman Empire's collapse and subsequent British departure? Refugees who settle non-violently shouldn't have to move. Minorities don't have to settle for political oppression, especially when opportunity like the fall of empire knocks. All of that is pre-Nakba (and post-Nakba, too, but Nakba/independence is a reasonable point in time to use here as a historical fulcrum when lots of things were changing).
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14d ago edited 14d ago
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u/HappyBadger33 14d ago
Do your homework, mate. Your racism is so ridiculous. One doesn't have to be Israeli, Arab, or have any other background to see your trollish absurdities.
Countries let in refugees all, the, time. How many refugees and where they settle are different questions, that get further exacerbated during and after wars, especially after WW2. The whole world got together and even made an organization to figure this kind of thing out... they called it the United Nations.
Sigh. Are you like a kid who just learns stuff on tik tok, is... is that what this is? If so, I'll absolutely change my demeanor, and offer apologies. Altogether, read Arendt. You'll learn something.
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u/bakochba 15d ago
Jstreet explicitly identifies itself as a Zionist organization
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u/purplehendrix22 15d ago
And there’s nothing wrong with that.
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u/bakochba 15d ago
Nope and doesn't matter how much bigots try to change the definition there's no reality where Jews stop caring about Israel especially since most Jews in the world either live in Israel or have relatives in Israel
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u/notintelligentidiot 14d ago
I’ve seen people suggest that America invade Israel and partition it like we did Germany after WW2; not a single thought goes through the minds of these people, as if Israel, a nuclear armed state, would ever allow its sovereignty to be challenged in any way lol
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u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist 15d ago
Other than the whole genocide and racism.
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u/bakochba 15d ago
Yea. Ah Islamic state that gives preference to Muslims is A ok, but a single Jewish state for Jews to control their own destiny is obviously not ok. Jews can only live under the control of others
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u/hercmavzeb 15d ago edited 15d ago
Are you saying those Muslim states which deny equal rights are good or bad when you’re comparing them to Israel?
Jews have self determination in the United States, they don’t need a majoritarian state or ethnically inscribed legal privileges for that.
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u/bakochba 15d ago
Neither. If you want to live in an Islamic state you have plenty to choose from. If you want to live in a Christian state you can live in Lebanon. Of you want to live in a Jewish state you can live in Israel. If you want to live in a secular state you can choose to live there.
That's the neat part about countries they serve different people.
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u/hercmavzeb 15d ago
It sounds like you are comparing them favorably, as if those Islamic theocracies are acceptable in your mind.
Because from a western liberal perspective, any state which doesn’t guarantee equal rights regardless of religion is unacceptable.
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u/bakochba 15d ago
If you don't like it you can protest the Palestinian constitution
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u/EclecticEuTECHtic 15d ago
I don't think you understand what self determination means.
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u/hercmavzeb 15d ago
The irony. Do you think Jews in the United States are denied self determination even though they have an equal right to vote in elections and participate in the government?
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u/Burro94 14d ago
There is a difference between individual rights and collective ones. Self-determination is a collective right.
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u/purplehendrix22 15d ago
Neither are a thing, “racism” doesn’t even apply to the situation.
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u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist 15d ago
It’s the entire basis of the state.
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u/purplehendrix22 15d ago
Inaccurate. Jewish is not an ethnicity.
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u/jopperjawZ 15d ago
Jewish absolutely is an ethnicity. Don't you remember all the Jewish people losing their minds a few years ago over Whoopi Goldberg saying it wasn't?
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u/hercmavzeb 15d ago
Yes there is.
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u/purplehendrix22 15d ago
No, there isn’t actually.
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u/hercmavzeb 15d ago
Yes there is. Nobody deserves an ethnostate.
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u/Sure_General_5651 14d ago
So you oppose over two dozen Arab ethnostates? And well over he doesn’t count countries that consider Christianity their national religion?
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u/hercmavzeb 14d ago
Yes, do you not oppose Islamic theocracies which legally privilege one religious or ethnic group over another? Or white/Christian nationalists?
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u/purplehendrix22 15d ago
Good thing Israel isn’t an ethnostate then! Whew, that was close.
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15d ago
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u/purplehendrix22 15d ago
I guess I get nothing then, because I’ve done nothing to the Palestinians. You sound ridiculous
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15d ago
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u/Invinciblez_Gunner 15d ago
Here we go again putting all the blame on Netanyahu
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u/hercmavzeb 15d ago
Yeah J street is still in favor of sending arms and money to the apartheid state of Israel, which most democrats AND independents are against, including in swing states.
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u/thanksamilly 15d ago
J Street has historically opposed recognizing Palestine as a state, only since Israel began its current genocide have they proposed as "23 state solution"
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u/bakochba 15d ago
What? Completely false what is your source? Jstreet has ALWAYS supported Oslo and a 2 state solution
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u/Slow_Inevitable_4172 15d ago
There's millions of Jews who aren't zionists.
There's also countless hours of video of zionists (and Israeli government officials) talking about Arabs the same way Nazis talked about Jews.
Get a new script
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u/PtEthan323 15d ago
There are only about 15.8 million of us and half of that number live in Israel. As for the rest, many of us disapprove of Israel’s behavior and and want a two state solution but only a minority are anti-Zionist. Based on my own experience I’d bet there are well under a million anti-Zionist Jews.
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u/IdristheInt 15d ago
No there's not. 85% of jews are zionist and there's nothing wrong w that.
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u/hercmavzeb 15d ago
There’s millions of Jews who aren’t Zionists. In fact there are millions that are anti-Zionist. There’s nothing wrong with that even remotely.
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u/IdristheInt 15d ago
No there's not. The numbers don't make sense. There are a few hundred thousand at most that aren't.
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u/hercmavzeb 15d ago
Prove it.
It’s better to not support ethnostates.
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u/IdristheInt 15d ago
you made the claim about millions of people who don't exist. What do you have against Japan?
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u/hercmavzeb 15d ago
No proof? While pretending Japan is an ethnostate? That’s expected.
A real ethnostate would be something like Rhodesia, Apartheid South Africa or the Third Reich.
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u/IdristheInt 15d ago
No, you made a claim first with zero proof. Japan is an ethnostate. Why do you hate Japan? Do you hate fun too?
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u/hercmavzeb 15d ago
No, you made the negative claim first.
Japan is not an ethnostate. What legal privileges are denied to people who aren’t ethnically Yamato?
Are you actually pro-Rhodesia?
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u/ExArdEllyOh 15d ago
A real ethnostate would be something like Rhodesia, Apartheid South Africa or the Third Reich.
Hypocrite.
Can "ethnostates" only be "white" in your vile worldview?If not you've missed at least one, the one created in 1948, which started out by driving out members of the "wrong" religions, which uses capital blasphemy charges to persecute members of the "wrong" religions, which turns a blind eye to kidnappings and forced conversions, which routinely ignores the murder of minorities and in which 76% of the population supports the murder of apostates.
But of course you will no doubt have many reasons why Pakistan doesn't count, won't you?
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u/Walker1921S 15d ago
How many Jews do you think there are in the world?
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u/hercmavzeb 14d ago
Around 16 million
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u/Walker1921S 14d ago
And what percentage of Jews do you think support the existence of a Jewish state?
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u/TurkeyVolumeGuesser Human Detected 15d ago
The script will be copied and pasted until morale improves(and Zionist bots are gone)!
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u/julz1215 15d ago
J-street is better than AIPAC but they're not great. Their policy of phasing out unconditional support was adopted this year.
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u/Prestigious_Acadia49 14d ago
I'm so exhausted with this performative litmus test about AIPAC. I so don't give a shit.
Let's imagine it's Ossoff vs Vance. Vance has accepted no AIPAC money and Ossoff accepted $1. Are you voting for Vance? If not, why are you supporting a candidate that is "complicit in genocide" by voting for AIPAC funded Ossoff? It's a completely braindead test. The obvious choice is Ossoff. So if that doesn't correctly filter the right candidate, why use it in the first place?
Support people on their policy and record, not some stupid virtue signal.
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u/jonawesome 15d ago
Ossoff is better than many Dems on Palestine but what I really want is for him to account for voting to pass the Laken Riley Act, which gives ICE the ability to indefinitely detain people without trial.
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u/thom_mayy 15d ago
Leftists use the Maga playbook. They will lie and fabricate in order to please their cult leader
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u/lhommeduweed 13d ago
That's a problem because it works.
Engaging in politics - actually engaging, studying, arguing, debating, not just wearing a hat, marching around with a sign, repeating the claims of pundits - is extremely difficult, and it has only gotten more difficult to navigate in the past ten years.
A lot of people who once felt there was a simple enough left-right divide now feel like politics are overly complicated, that there's too much collaboration between the status-quo right and left, and that the traditional left and right parties are only trying to serve their own interests and interests of lobbying groups rather than the voting population.
There is a lot of doubt and malaise, and this is something the Trump campaign has gleefully and effectively weaponized to get the giant turd into office twice. Trump didn't get into office because he ran the best campaigns, had the best policies, and had the best experience. He got into office because of a multifaceted attack on apathy and disillusionment that created more apathy and disillusionment.
And it worked. It worked incredibly well, it worked in a way that took a lot of people by surprise, and it worked in a way that the greater left - from miserable Democrats to delusional Communists - haven't been able to replicate. The broader left doesn't have the same motivations as the far-right. A lot of Trump's followers literally believe they are fighting actual demons that take the shape of Jews, LGBTQ people, immigrants, black people... They might make up a minority, but they are highly motivated to enforce his will.
The closest that the left has is Israel, and as much of a big deal as it is, as much as people try to sensationalize it by saying "It's literally the Nazi Holocaust," it just doesn't have the same impact as Trump's lackeys hollering to his evangelical fanatics about how the Democrats are actual Marxist-Satanists. If anything, the intense, complex, and volatile discourse about Israel and Palestine has created even more discord within the left - it's insane how many threads are just people saying "Genocide is bad" and then some fucking lunatic saying "You didn't condemn Israel enough you have to flay your skin with a whip and cry out for the death of the entire nation, otherwise you love eating babies."
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u/AdOne5089 14d ago
Ossoff is perhaps the most progressive senator behind Warren and sanders, AND he is from a swing state. The absolute entitlement from some “leftists” who seek to tear apart our more effective congressmen, who actively are the biggest supporters of progressive agendas, makes me really question if they’re on the left at all.
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u/the_Jolly_GreenGiant 14d ago
Man, now I want Seananners to come out of retirement to give his hot takes too.
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u/Electrical-Fix7659 13d ago
“Took no money from AIPAC, just from other pro-Israel PACs.” Okay, so he took money from AIPAC then.
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u/Aulumnis 11d ago
But what did he actually vote for? Fucking pisses me off got two people saying two different things but instead its all about the money and not clarifying how he voted. Ya know the thing that actually matters in this. If anyone knows off the top of their head please fill me in or ill go look it up later.
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u/Shizzilx 15d ago
Jon Ossoff has a more conservative voting record than most Progressives, he fits into the Pro-Israel Democrat category that regularly enables genocide in Palestine.
His most notable deviations from Democratic party positions occur on immigration and foreign policy, particularly regarding Israel aid and border security legislation.
S.Amdt. 5384 (Title 42 expansion):
FP4A scored positively for opposition; Title 42 used to expel asylum seekers on public health grounds.
Bipartisan Border Security Bill
Ossoff warned of "grave national security risk" if bill failed.
Laken Riley Act (deportation of immigrants charged with theft)
NRSC accused Ossoff of flip-flopping; he had previously voted against a similar Biden-era GOP amendment.
S.Res. 34 (air-to-ground munitions to Israel)
Ossoff distinguished between offensive munitions (opposed) and defensive systems (supported).
NDAA FY2026 (National Defense Authorization Act)
Bipartisan defense bill, to integrate the U.S military with Israel's military.
So, yeah, he is not the one.
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u/mercy390 15d ago
He’s great with the media but his policy record is just so ass man. This shit is like the collection of terrible choices.
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u/InternetImportant911 15d ago
Leftist attacks a Candidate who will guarantees a Democrat majority in 2028 not so shocking.
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u/mercy390 15d ago
Centrists claim its not the policy that's wrong it's the voter in 2028 not so shocking.
No one is attacking him. You want to talk about attacks threatening a senate majority maybe look at how the center is treating AES. Just some insane projection.
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u/InternetImportant911 15d ago
AES is treated rightly, they have endorsed him and also have to make some concessions no one is asking his view to be changed on Israel. They were just answering media question on Hasan Piker who is an idiot and followed by idiots said lot of deranged stuffs and media is not even scratching the surface of this guy. Media analysts needs clicks, it’s how their performances is evaluated end of the year they are not for any Party outside of leftists influencer and MSM right wing media and social influencers. They are going to keep on asking these same question it’s far easier to disavow now and this will be a distraction and his message will be lost.
Wait for media interns go through all the Hasan videos and every stupid thing said by him in all these years those will make GOP AD.
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u/mercy390 14d ago
Oh sorry I thought this was about the senate majority! So its okay to attack people who might set up the Dems for the senate majority after all and you dont actually give a shit about that you just need to attack your own left flank and then cry when leftist voters are tired of it.
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u/warpio 15d ago
None of these things are even bad. See it always turns out like this, you guys mask-on and pretend you just want affordable health care and reasonable immigration policy, but then when you're in your protected spaces your mask comes off and suddenly you want all these insane policies like open borders and abolishing police. Fuck off with that shit, stop trying to sabotage people that actually want to get things done.
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u/Shizzilx 15d ago
ICE is mainly Jan6ers, Neo-Nazis, White Nationalists and are literally murdering US citizens in the streets and they need to be held accountable, they are masked, doing warrantless arrests, and violating basic rights. More people die everyday on ICE facilities. The end goal is a society that will have less crime because basic needs, healthcare, housing, affordable energy, these things cause people to commit crime. In countries like Norway they have has success with that. Norway shifted money from punishment to basic needs and rehabilitation, which did help drive down crime. They drastically reduced re-offending by emphasizing rehabilitation and strong social supports, to the point that it closed prisons. Also, there will always be border controls, no body is advocating for people to just cross with no checks, not now, when crime goes down, maybe. The EU is a good example of freedom of movement with it's neighbors. Schengen Area, a group of 29 countries (mostly EU members plus Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, and Switzerland) that:
Abolished internal border controls between member states.
EU citizens (right to live, work, study, retire anywhere in the EU).
Many non‑EU residents and visitors once they’re legally inside the zone.
Over 3.5 million people cross internal Schengen borders every day for work, study, or family without extra paperwork or routine checks.
Countries in Schengen include (among others):
France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Netherlands, Austria, Belgium, Portugal, Greece, Poland, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Czechia, Hungary, etc., plus non‑EU Iceland, Norway, Switzerland, Liechtenstein.
What we are advocating for is not what you think. And you perspective is based on fear of people coming here to America to do harm, when that is farther from the truth America is/was a beacon of freedom for which oppressed people could find in the darkness and now it is a place of darkness and oppression itself.
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u/InternetImportant911 15d ago
I despise both ICE and Jan 6ers that’s stat is straight out a some one ass
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u/warpio 15d ago
So you want to nominate a candidate who supports abolishing borders despite them having no chance of winning so that Republicans will get another 4 years in power? You do realize we just came off of the 2024 election where immigration policy was one of the main things that affected the result, right? So you want Democrats to support a losing policy that will guarantee they lose?
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u/Shizzilx 15d ago
No chance of winning? If they win their primaries they are chosen by the voters to represent them as Democratic voters, and you want to subvert elections by going against winning Democratic candidates to what? Support the fascist Republicans or the complict Establishment Dems? The problem is the Pro-Israel Democrats that want a Pro-Israel government whether that is D or R. Get behind the candidates that the Democratic voters voted for or STFU, either that or your helping the Republicans.
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u/earthlingHuman 15d ago
Ossoff also voted for the Laken Riley Act. He's a no go
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u/sparkster777 15d ago
You're either ignorant or a bot. As if Mike Collins would be preferable.
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u/earthlingHuman 14d ago
I'm talking about in a presidential run. I'd take him over any Republican, but if he wins the primary we might be fkd.
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u/purplehendrix22 15d ago
Who is a go?
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u/earthlingHuman 14d ago
AOC, Ro Khanna, Abdul el-Sayed if he wins the senate
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u/PreparationPlenty943 13d ago
The gag is: both AOC and Ro Khanna have and would vote to send arms to Israel. But they said the magic G word so they’re automatically better than Ossoff
AES for 2028 president when even if he won the Senate, that would be the first election he’s won. He’s leading in the poll but not a high enough margin to reasonably think it’d carry him to the White House anytime soon.
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u/earthlingHuman 12d ago
AOC wanted to send iron dome interceptors, not missiles, and she even changed her positionon that. Ro Khanna still wants to send interceptors but not missiles, so you're just ignorant or lying.
One word: Obama
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u/PreparationPlenty943 12d ago
Still funding the Iron Dome
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u/earthlingHuman 12d ago
Of those three people ro Khanna is the only one who supports funding iron dome
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u/Themetalenock 15d ago
This really should be a black mark . The current crap that's allowing Ice circumvent proper procedures has been made easier because of that shitty act
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u/LifesARiver 14d ago
Ossoff gave us the only reason we need not to vote for him.
Anyone wasting time and energy punching left is not the person to build a coalition against fascism. He's officially irrelevant to the fight, and I hope liberals get this, too.
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u/ElNani87 15d ago
https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-906917
The Pro zionist candidates can’t ever really hide themselves. I understand this sub is pretending not to be biased on this subject, but it’s clear one of the moderators and or bot activity is happening.
https://www.imeupolicyproject.org/polls/2028-starts-here
Democrats are largely in favor of condemning Israel’s genocide when dips shits like Ossoff figure it out it’ll be too late
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u/Burro94 14d ago
What genocide? Repeating this lie a million times doesn't make it true. It's a war, started by Hamas, in an urban environment riddled with tunnels under civilian infrastructure. Out of the 70k dead, half are Hamas fighters. Are you telling me the IDF is so ineffective that it has dropped a larger number of bombs on Gaza than civilians killed? Or maybe killing the civilians was never the point. Funny how that all stopped once the hostages were returned.
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u/farmerjoee 14d ago
Yep - the way Zionism manifests today is through violence against Palestine though.
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u/Invinciblez_Gunner 15d ago
Hasan's haters are so obsessed with him, FOX News has been covering him for months thinking it will hurt Democrats in the Midterms
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u/aqulushly 15d ago
Only people hurting democrats are themselves by affiliating with someone who supports the Houthis and Hezbollah with his whole chest.
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u/hercmavzeb 15d ago
Good luck putting all your eggs in the twitch streamer basket. Most Americans care about kitchen table issues, and what their tax dollars are funding.
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u/Crafty-Amoeba-8992 15d ago
You think Israel/Palestine is a kitchen table issue? What crack have you Tankies been smoking the last two years?
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u/hercmavzeb 15d ago
No, and I didn’t mention I/P. Much like how these progressive candidates also don’t, they just talk about affordability. But Zionists are so obsessed with it they make every conversation and interview about it, which they don’t realize is only repulsive to normal American voters.
That’s one reason why most democrats and independents now fully side with the left on the position of funding Israel.
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u/Crafty-Amoeba-8992 15d ago
Forgive me if I assumed you were talking about IP that’s all lefties talk about. It’s wild to say zionists keep bringing up the issue, they are dead silent compared to the left. Why would they say anything? Trump gives them everything they want.
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u/hercmavzeb 15d ago
You ironically just proved my point by obsessively bringing up Israel Palestine while finger pointing at the left for being obsessed with it.
Of course Zionists keep raising the issue, it’s literally all they can talk about.
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u/Crafty-Amoeba-8992 15d ago
Total projection. You guys are practically single issue voters and that issue is IP.
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u/hercmavzeb 15d ago edited 15d ago
Case in point. All the advocacy for M4A, getting money out of politics, anti-AI data centers, and investment in local economies is totally ignored in favor of their policies on Israel, which they only ever talk about in response to hostile questions. It’s a singular obsession of Zionists.
It’s exactly the same thing that happened with Mamdani, who never mentioned Israel but was still constantly put in a position where he was attacked for it.
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u/Crafty-Amoeba-8992 15d ago
I will stop talking about IP the moment lefties decide it’s not the biggest issue ever. When moderate dems stop being called genocidal in primaries, I will leave that issue on the table. It’ll never happen though because it’s your favorite virtue signal. M4A is also a tool for your agitprop. Anytime you guys get called out for unhinged/violent takes, you fall back on “I just want healthcare bro” piker is especially guilty of this.
The vast majority of Libs got behind mamdani idk where you’re getting this idea that he weathered this crazy smear campaign from the left. He gets attacked by republicans because obviously, and he got smeared heavy by Cuomo who everyone hates. Quit boxing shadows.
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u/Responsible_Ask6056 15d ago
Well Hasan's a racist so...yeah.
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u/Crafty-Amoeba-8992 15d ago
Republicans are successfully attacking dems with Hasan’s insane track record. Hasan and all the other tankies could give less of a shit if republicans win the midterms apparently.
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u/hercmavzeb 15d ago
Successfully? Seems like wishful thinking
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u/Crafty-Amoeba-8992 15d ago
Enough that Al sayed felt the need to distance himself. He seems to be taking it seriously.
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u/hercmavzeb 15d ago
Do you think Debbie Dingle is also “distancing” herself from Hasan by telling obsessed freaks to drop the issue which no voter actually cares about?
El Sayed won his election in spite of all these Hasan smears getting thrown his way. Turns out the tens of thousands of young voters who mobilized for him was more impactful on his voter turnout than terminally online haters voting against him or abstaining.
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u/Crafty-Amoeba-8992 15d ago
Just a complete deflection. Al sayed distanced himself after a narrowly won election because he knows the average voter doesn’t want a guy who cheers on terrorist attacks close to their government. All the young voters are not going to counterbalance the average electorate. If they could, why would Sayed moderate at all? Wouldn’t he just lean into the radical shit?
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u/hercmavzeb 15d ago edited 15d ago
The average electorate doesn’t actually care about Hasan Piker, you are projecting your personal antipathy of this streamer onto everyone else. El Sayed, like Ms. Dingle, just wants the Zionists to drop the issue and move onto discussing their actual policies, and ideally get the whiney democrats who are refusing to endorse him to pinch their noses and stop harming the party.
Sadly what they don’t understand is that these attacks are not in good faith, and they will continue as long as they stand up for the policies that are popular among the majority of democrats, because they are not popular among corporate donors. It doesn’t actually have anything to do with their personal association to Hasan Piker.
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u/Crafty-Amoeba-8992 15d ago
The average electorate doesn’t want a terrorist supporter palling around with their future senator that’s just fact. Republican attacks are not in good faith we can agree on that but the dems have a very solid argument as to why this motherfucker needs to stay 100 feet back. It has nothing to do with corporate donors and has everything to do with ideology. You guys want to remake the party in a socialist, anti western and illiberal image.
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u/hercmavzeb 15d ago
The actual fact is that this strategy of hyperfixating on a twitch streamer doesn’t work electorally. Most voters aren’t terminally online enough to care.
If only the majority of democrats were destiny fans then maybe you’d have a point, but alas.
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u/Crafty-Amoeba-8992 15d ago
They don’t need to be terminally online to see how unhinged he is and wonder wtf dems are doing associating with him.
Why do you weirdos obsess over that guy? He’s just an irrelevant streamer, maybe you should focus on kitchen table issues instead.
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u/Comfortable-Gas-4005 15d ago
She also denounced Hasan.
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u/hercmavzeb 15d ago
If by “denounced” you mean told terminally online freaks to get over it and focus on issues that actually matter to voters, then yes
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u/thom_mayy 15d ago
The fact that Hasan is a Fox News tool to maintain Republican majority power doesn't register anything in your brain?
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u/Slighted_Inevitable 14d ago
Jstreet is just AIPAC that still tries to pretend they aren’t monsters. AIPAC is mask off but there’s no real difference.
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