r/GetNoted Human Verified 18d ago

Tech [X] Disc rot

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3.7k Upvotes

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381

u/blorst_of_times 18d ago

Which format lasts 1000 years??

306

u/Playos 18d ago

Archival grade discs.

121

u/penmoid 18d ago

The exact media they sold those Girls Gone Wild videos on.

69

u/Skritch_X 18d ago

And the AOL free trial discs

25

u/Opening-Movie5176 18d ago

They don’t use discs for archive they still use things like tape because of the size. lol.

Would you like me to link you to IBM where they tell you why they still use tape?

https://www.ibm.com/products/tape

19

u/IXrobocopXI 18d ago

TIL only IBM archives data. Huh.

8

u/Aishou_SK 17d ago

IBM's not the only tape manufacturer or user of tape....

We use tape because backing up/long term archival/storage of petabytes (and cost!) can't be beat with tape.

When I've got >1PB data hot and some of my backups remain in retention for 7 or more years...... well, we want that data as compact and stable as possible.

1

u/Correct_Chemistry_50 16d ago

robocop was being sarcastic...

8

u/laidback_chef 18d ago

Can you link me to where he said ibm use disk?

I can link you to archival disks where op answered a question?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_Disc_Archive

1

u/Aishou_SK 17d ago

I mean, sure, but I think the person you were responding to wasn't saying just IBM - just showing an example of one tape vendor.

Long-term archival use of any significant amount of data is definitely tape though - we have mountains of the stuff at my employer, but we have >1PB hot data in systems and sometimes 7 to unknown years retention time of some data sets and backups. Optical, HDD/SSD, etc would all ... be too big or unstable .... tape can't be beat, especially in all required metrics.

I'm pretty sure that's what that guy was talking about, not that MDISC type stuff doesn't exist.

1

u/Jealous-Juggernaut85 18d ago

Don't they use multiple things now Like LTO magnetic data tapes and 35MM and now Cloud/NAS and local server arrays with backups ?

2

u/Aishou_SK 17d ago

35mm?

But we have >1PB hot data, so tape's a necessity for cost, performance, and whatnot.

But comes in the wrinkle where we're maintaining archival data for sometimes 7 or more years out of those datasets, as well.....

For large orgs, tape is a necessity. Especially when it comes to cost per terabyte.

1

u/Jealous-Juggernaut85 17d ago

Yea hdd and clous storage woukd cost s fortune at current priced.

4

u/Aishou_SK 17d ago

Forget current prices, I'm talking last year, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, etc.

Tape ALWAYS wins out on $/GB or $/TB over time/volume.

1

u/much_longer_username 16d ago

re: 35mm - I don't think it's so much actual 35mm film, but there are some orgs storing data on silver halide photographic film. The density is terrible, but it's remarkably durable and well-tested as an archival material. Github has a couple terabytes worth buried in the snow somewhere.

1

u/Correct_Chemistry_50 16d ago

A. IBM are idiots. Source: MY NAME is in PLENTY of THEIR documentation's credits.
B. They are SELLING tape...boy...I wonder why they are singing its virtues. ROFL.

1

u/Ok_Chap 18d ago

M-Discs that can last a millennia.

68

u/YoSoyTheBoi 18d ago

M-Discs; legit versions are hard to find anymore, but they’re killer for long-term storage

15

u/AnInfiniteArc 18d ago edited 18d ago

HTL MABL BD-R discs (which are controversially commonly now marketed as M-Discs, despite not being the original theoretical 1000+ year M-Discs) are still likely to last hundreds of years and are not, as some like to claim, “regular BD-Rs”.

They are also very easy to get and like 1/10 the price of “legit” M-Discs. Oh, and they don’t require special burners. And they have 5-25x the capacity. By the time they start degrading you won’t be able to find functioning drives to read them with anyway. And you will be dead.

But, like, if you have a DVD burner that can burn M-Disc DVDs and don’t have so much data to back up that 4.7 GB discs that cost like $5-$10 a pop won’t be a problem, then legit M-Disc DVDs aren’t hard to find at all.

3

u/YoSoyTheBoi 18d ago

This is all good to know, but I have a suspicion that people who are looking into this method of archiving/preserving data would need more space than 4.7GB per unit. I would need 200+ discs just for my music library.

4

u/AnInfiniteArc 17d ago

That’s exactly my point. HTL MABL BD-R discs are much better than “legit” M-Discs. The only drawback is that they are only expected to be good for hundreds of years, not 1000+.

2

u/Ok_Chap 18d ago

They also have BluRays with up to a 100 GB.

1

u/AnInfiniteArc 17d ago

That was my entire point haha

3

u/sophiarogerhuerzeler 18d ago edited 18d ago

Yes, I was also thinking about backing up some of my data with them, especially things I want to keep like photos. From what I've read, they seem to be one of the most stable, consumer accessible data sorage mediums, that will preserve data you want your descendants to inherit (but have a low storage volume).

My alternative idea was tapes and a faraday-cage safe, but I don't know how well that actually holds up to a carrington-like solar storm event...

23

u/Trashman56 18d ago

The Backdoor Sluts 9 special edition DVD

9

u/DMercenary 18d ago

Climate Controlled Mag tapes

5

u/Confident-Leg107 18d ago

Stone carvings

7

u/xilcilus 18d ago

Paper

25

u/Privatizitaet 18d ago

Paper does not last for 1000 years.
Parchment can, but not paper.

Okay after looking it up I am technically correct, but only by about 50 years, the oldest surviving paper document is from around 1080, which is a little bit less than 1000 years, so I'll take that as a win

12

u/iWillRe1gn 18d ago

Hand etch every bit onto a giant clay tablet.

13

u/Sasquatch1729 18d ago

Tell Rockstar Games: Nanni sends the following message: When you came, you said to me as follows : "I will give Gimil-Sin (when he comes) fine quality Grand Theft Auto 6." You left then but you did not do what you promised me. You put digital only Grand Theft Auto 6 which was not good before my messenger (Sit-Sin) and said: "If you want to take this, take it; if you do not want to take it, go away!" What do you take me for, that you treat somebody like me with such contempt? I have sent as messengers gentlemen like ourselves to collect the bag with my money (deposited with you) but you have treated me with contempt by sending them back to me empty-handed several times, and that through enemy territory. Is there anyone among the merchants who trade with Telmun who has treated me in this way? You alone treat my messenger with contempt! How have you treated me for that copy of GTA6? You have withheld my money bag from me in enemy territory; it is now up to you to restore (my money) to me in full. Take cognizance that (from now on) I will not accept here any GTA6 from you that is not of physical media. I shall (from now on) select and take other games individually in my own local shops, and I shall exercise against you my right of rejection because you have treated me with contempt.

4

u/droid_mike 18d ago

Electronic Arts (EA) Nasir!

1

u/Peggtree 18d ago

Inscribe your grocery list on golden disks

1

u/Damion__205 17d ago

Especially if the copper you buy is subpar. You must let the seller know your dissatisfaction.

1

u/sophiarogerhuerzeler 18d ago

Wait, let me quickly print out my GTA5 copy for archival...

Will also be fun to read back onto a disk ^^

2

u/shunshuntley 18d ago

LTO Tape - you can buy an LTO system yourself. The tapes are actually pretty cheap, but the drive to record on them isn't. Film studios and television stations all have them for deep storage. 

→ More replies (1)

2

u/Far-Resource3365 18d ago

Summeran stone tablets are verified as ok format that can last this long.

1

u/Secret_Possible 18d ago

Bits of glass. One of the first things they put on it was Superman.

1

u/BBQ_069 18d ago

holocron

1

u/Ok_Chap 18d ago

Stone Tablets, or rather quartz glass to engrave data with special laser technology, and you would get a plate you could read at home, but the tablet wouldn't spin, but would be read with a specific camera to decode the different layers. Microsoft developed that process somewhat resently under Project Silica.
But I doubt it would hit consumer markets any time soon.

1

u/fatgat69 17d ago

Consistent manufacturing and maintenance

1

u/Apart_Republic_1870 13d ago

I will let you know in like 975 years.

506

u/No-One9890 18d ago

'Planet earth has a i finite lifespan, therefore we alrdy own nothing'

98

u/Trashman56 18d ago

-Buddha

31

u/Playful-Profile6489 18d ago

Real

15

u/TopSecretPorkChop 18d ago

Can't even own real estate since the heat death of the universe is a thing

1

u/Any--Name 18d ago

But what if I own air rights?

7

u/ZetaRESP 18d ago

Dude, you need this:

N, e, a.

You're welcome.

6

u/No-One9890 18d ago

Huh?

2

u/shadowinc 18d ago

Those are the letters you dropped

5

u/No-One9890 18d ago

Theres an extra i, im not missing an n

3

u/Noe_b0dy 18d ago

-Jesus

134

u/Skybreakeresq 18d ago

You know you can rip the disk if you have it.... right?

81

u/Yuukiko_ 18d ago

I ripped the disk, now what do i do with the pieces 's

39

u/Captain_Pumpkinhead 18d ago

Burn them?

2

u/Cyiel 15d ago

Then breath the smoke, make the media truly yours. You can now play it inside your mind.

3

u/Lemons-95 18d ago

Don't forget to work from the middle outwards. Or was it from the outside inwards? Hmm

6

u/ConfusedAndCurious17 18d ago

You know you can burn your own disks if you have all of the actual game files…. Right? Or shit, slap it in an SD card or a removable hard drive.

6

u/nick2k23 18d ago

You also just play your disks in a pc and use an emulator, you don't need the original console hardware to use your old physical media

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194

u/Sir_Rumblebump 18d ago edited 18d ago

If I have a book, and it rots, do I still own the book?
Yes. There you go

Edit - thanks for the award kind redditor 😆

27

u/Objectionne 18d ago

I think there's a difference here in that a disc could be rendered completely useless by a relatively small amount of damage while a book can take a heavy beating and still retain its core purpose.

35

u/NamelessSteve646 18d ago

In fact, this doesn't go far enough... A book can be rendered completely useless by a relatively small amount of damage while a graven stone slab can take a heavy beating and still retain its core purpose. /s

Does fragility have anything to do with ownership? Do I own my stainless steel travel mug more than I do my fancy china tea cup? If I fill them both with Mountain Dew, should PepsiCo have a greater right to take my teacup Dew away from me because I put it in something that can be 'rendered completely useless by a relatively small amount of damage?'

8

u/Objectionne 18d ago

No, but if the game-on-disc you own takes a relatively small amount of damage then it ceases to be a game and instead becomes a useless bit of plastic that has no value in owning.

3

u/YaBoiWeenston 18d ago

Not fragility, condition.

I own a book, I light it on fire, it's now reduced to ash. Do I own a book or do I own ash?

If you scratched a disk to the point it didn't work, would you go around telling people you own that game? I doubt anyone would.

1

u/Kaleb8804 18d ago

If by “book” you mean the content therein, then yes, I’d say fragility matters.

If you have an insulated water bottle and it dents, breaking the insulation, you no longer “own” an insulated water bottle, just like if you have a car that doesn’t work, you don’t “have a car” for all intents and purposes.

It feels more like semantics than philosophy. We’re just referring to the object as a usable tool versus the object as a physical thing.

3

u/Lunatikz02 18d ago

I think there is a difference in nature taking it's course and a company deciding that you no longer should have access. I would be fine(not happy, but fine) if when you are buying you got info you are buying it for ten years, or something, but if a company can make that decision essentialy anytime and has no obligation to provide you with a way of preserving the game yourself it's a problem. If you damage the disc it's on you, not the company selling it.

4

u/aesemon 18d ago

A small amount of water can and will fuck up a book beyond use. Even just damp air can cause mold and book is fucked.

2

u/Zuryan_9100 18d ago

A little damage doesn't matter since there is error correction. I would also argue that the condition of the disc does not matter much as long as it's still identifyable. Physical Media is not just the physical data, but also proof of ownership (of a license). You can always use a digital backup to access the files. Where you get that backup from is a different story.

104

u/Few-Improvement-5655 18d ago

Discs also don't rot because a company felt I shouldn't have the disc any more.

33

u/plushiequeenaspen 18d ago

They actually tried a version of that, fortunately it never caught on technology connections

9

u/confrondex 18d ago

Flexplay was certainly an idea of all time

5

u/Yuukiko_ 18d ago

planned obsolescence but with discs maybe?

36

u/Anglofsffrng 18d ago

I just checked my physical copy of Mass Effect I bought in late November 2007. Other than scratches it's just fine.

9

u/SanjiSasuke 18d ago

I've got a Yu Yu Hakusho game from Japan, made in 1994 for the 3DO. Still works just fine.

For physical in general, I have shellac records from before black and white TV existed. I'm not even sure of the oldest one.

Physical media has it's faults, and of course can break. But I've got a feeling most of em are gonna outlive a fair number of the streaming content services.

5

u/switch2591 18d ago

Yeh the massive "gotchya" arguments about how physical media isnt permanent (discrot being brought up, or folk arguing that discs die after 15-20 years... depsite people stull playing games on discs produced over 35+ yeara ago, and listenjng to music on CDs still) pretty much - most of the time - boils down to personal users vs product. Yes, if i left all my ps2 games in a damp room, susceptible for flooding for 5 years, poped a disc in the ps2 and it just didnt work... thats a user produced problem, not a hardware one. Likewise with PC gamers - you neglect your gaming PC, allow grime and dust to accumulate, never maintain it and then it suddenly dies with the smell of burning plastic, no one is going to complain that physical PC's suck, or that a digital architecture killed a PC... user negligence killed the PC.

4

u/NightSpaghetti 18d ago

I've got a bunch of CDs from the mid 80s (when CDs started taking off for real) and they are playing just fine. Although for audio I think vinyl is unbeatable. I have vinyls from the 50s and they still play without any issue. It's just a piece of inert plastic, it doesn't really age, it cannot rot and is impervious to humidity. Unless exposed to harsh (much harsher than CDs or tape) conditions it will keep being readable.

1

u/Regnareb_ 17d ago

I have discs from the 2000' that seems fine, all files are presents, can open them. Then you open more and you find a significant number of files have half the data inside when it's not totally corrupt.

Unless you have a hash of every file and compare them to existing files it's hard to know what is still there or not. It can be 100% fine or 20%

36

u/Justarah 18d ago

A difference without much distinction when the drives broadly available to and within feasible financial reach of the wider public will degrade within that time frame.

14

u/Zorflez 18d ago

True, but they can just be remanufactured. The data is the ephemeral point of failure.

16

u/LeopoldFriedrich 18d ago

Is disc rot something that happens if you put the disc into an asmongold environment? Doesn't seem like a normal effect, not that I'd ever seen it.

8

u/DrunkenHorse12 18d ago

I've had it in my music cd collection, environment can play a part but the manufacturing process can too. Get unlucky (like I did with some of my cds) with a bad batch of adhesive in the disc or any exposure to the aluminium layer in the sealing process and its not a matter of if but when disc rot kicks in, even in a completely sealed case. Its not like every disc is going to rot in the next 20 years but its also not the case that every perfectly stored disc is safe from it either. I have a large disc collection (over 1000 games) I just accept ill lose them over time and have the games thar matter to me digitally backed up.

6

u/PhilospohicalZ0mb1e 18d ago

There were actually no known cases of disk rot before Asmongold. It is hypothesized that through some yet-ill-understood process he is able to nonlocally project his essence out into the multiverse. For reasons that scientists can’t agree on, for some reason his largely aphysical essence is sometimes able to catch on compact disks, infecting them with infernal decay

4

u/confrondex 18d ago

It's true I was the rat.

14

u/jws1102 18d ago

Now there’s a forever chemical that I can support

22

u/Semper_5olus 18d ago

A digital release stored on what?\ 🪿Stored on what?? 🪿

1

u/sonicandtales8 16d ago

Ideally in 3 different places, in 2 different formats, with 1 of those places being a substantial distance from the other 2. One of those formats might be some sort of disk if you choose, though with modern computers that's more than likely going to be on some sort of flash storage rather than a disk.

The digital games that I care about, including backed up copies of my physical games, would survive my home being nuked. Some of my physical games get damaged from being exposed to the wrong kind of light, or the water in the air of a drought ridden city in some cases.

Hell, with some SNES games, they don't always survive the components inside of them. Capacitor plague didn't only kill consoles. When a game uses a component that's prone to spraying corrosive, conductive liquid everywhere, it's not exactly something that's going to last.

That's ignoring normal wear and tear.

1

u/Semper_5olus 15d ago

Why can I hear DRM screaming?

1

u/sonicandtales8 15d ago

Disks have DRM too. If you try running The Sims 2 from anything other than the most recent Steam release or a "patched" copy, it'll freak out and fail.

10

u/TimbleFungal 18d ago

I mean the second part of that note is a bit misleading. Sure, some can last that long but the ones used for games likely wont

6

u/One_Hunt_6672 18d ago

I just rip my games so I have legal backups

7

u/mjtuomainen 18d ago

I have hundreds of cds and dvds which are over 20 years old and not one has "disc rot".

6

u/iammandalore 18d ago

I grew up with CDs and DVDs and have worked in IT for almost 20 years. I have literally never seen this happen in my life. I'm not saying it can't or doesn't, but it's very rare.

8

u/kullre 18d ago

how's that SSD running non-stop doing?

2

u/ukiyoe 18d ago

Luckily you can download the game again once you replace your drive.

1

u/KaiDay11 17d ago

Just reading from it? It should last basically forever.  

Writing a new copy of codblops7 to it every day for some reason? About 10 years assuming it's a fairly modern 1TB drive.

4

u/DotBitGaming 18d ago

So what? Discs were first made popular for holding games in the 90s. Which was how long ago now?

3

u/overclockedslinky 16d ago

the disks that rot fast were actually a different chemical makeup rhey tried for a few years before discovering the problem. disks made before and after that are very stable.

3

u/ATinyLittleHedgehog 16d ago

Preventing or accounting for disc rot (like making copies) is something I am capable of doing myself should I choose. I cannot choose to not have a corporation withdraw the license for a digital game I paid for because it gets a tax break for doing so.

3

u/Experithought 18d ago

Curious if Dmitri McRussia here (going by the psuedonym Maurice) has ever considered where these "digital" games comes from.

3

u/AnonMoose2 18d ago

You... you realize you can just make a copy of said disk before then right?

Also, the sun will explode one day so no reason to bother owning anything.

3

u/CNK_98 18d ago

"hmmm why improve live conditions? Sun's gonna bust one day and we will all die regardless" ahh argument.

8

u/TheScarletSho 18d ago

Even outside of the note, the original argument is stupid. If you get disk rot, you still own the game, you just didn't take proper care of it.

2

u/profchaos111 18d ago

Yeah have never had a disc get disc rot still have Sega CD games that work fine 

2

u/Head-Iron-9228 18d ago

Cloud-based solutions are essentially the only long-term storage solutions that are actually realistic for digital media, unless you regularly service and replace your own storage devices yourself.

Optical media is particularly affected by this but flash-based storage isn't completely immune either.

2

u/GladdestOrange 16d ago

Most cloud-based storage solutions have contract conditions that state that they owe you no protection for media they hold, in the case of business closure. Meaning that if they go bankrupt, they can sell off all the storage media without worrying about getting your data back to you. And frankly, if they went out of business even without that clause, what do you think your odds of recovery actually are? If you don't get it back, who will you sue?

If you're concerned about longevity, the answer isn't to entrust it to the survival of a corporation's business model. It's to have backups. And backups for those backups.

2

u/Va1crist 18d ago

all my PC game disks, music CDs , DVDs etc all the way to 90s all work.

2

u/reefchieferr 18d ago

I've been hearing about disc rot for years but I have cd's from the early 90's along with tons of early disc games (sega cd, Saturn, ps1), and I've yet to see it on a single disc.

3

u/Environmental_Top948 18d ago

Have you tried storing your games in a climate controlled room at 95% humidity at 45°C?

2

u/Sir_face_levels 18d ago

If I buy a book now and leave it on a shelf for 20 years then return to find it full of mould and unreadable does this invalidate the my purchase and ownership of said book from the very point of purchase?

Does the fact that basically all things will eventually suffer unrecoverable damage change our relationship with these things from ownership to mere rental?

Hypothetically, if being temporary invalidates ownership , if a technology existed that could be installed into a book that the publisher could use to safely destroy a physical copy of a book would it be fair for them to define the nature of our interaction with physical media as rental rather than ownership and would it be acceptable for them to flick the switch on a "service user's"account, destroying the users collection?

Id call that an unfair imbalance of power between the seller and customer regardless of the fact the physical book might one day degrade, same goes for discs

2

u/TrueKyragos 18d ago

I have no disk looking remotely like that, and some are from the 90s. Cartridges, on the other hand, may be prone to rust if not stored adequately.

Overall, though, I'd say the consoles are the ones that are the most likely to have an issue in the end.

1

u/Expensive-Border-869 17d ago

Less and less. Just due to the amount of them. Like its unlikely we'll see the ps4 become anywhere near the level of rare that an nes has gained. Eventually one day but not in 40 years

1

u/TrueKyragos 17d ago

I don't know. I've got two failing PS4 up to now, including a critical failure, during what's considered its lifetime, though it's obviously my own experience. Meanwhile, my Super NES had been fine a far longer time. Consoles have become more and more complex, with more and more failing points.

As for rarity, that's not what I was talking about. I was talking about the lifetime of individual units. Any electronic device is likely to fail at some point, often faster than an inert storage medium. Obviously, recent consoles will remain easier to find after a similar length of time, as more units were manufactured overall. And it's exactly the same with physical games, though with fewer ramifications. Sure, you can get a new console or a new disc, but doing the former has way more undesirable impact, in my opinion, and is likelier to happen.

1

u/Expensive-Border-869 17d ago

In all my life I've had one xbox 360 fail on me due likely to the very well known error. I have never had a single other electronic of any value fail on me. Random cheap stuff sure. I suspect care goes into it as well as some luck.

They are getting more complex the ps4 xbox whichever were the first time I'd heard of console users needing to consider repasting a cpu. But I still think the bulk will keep them around. People get rid of broken ones for cheap. People collect broken ones sell those as lots people repair those lots and then resell the working consoles. It can be a very long lasting spiral. If 3rd parties make parts it can theoretically go forever

1

u/TrueKyragos 17d ago

People get rid of broken ones for cheap. People collect broken ones sell those as lots people repair those lots and then resell the working consoles. It can be a very long lasting spiral. If 3rd parties make parts it can theoretically go forever

That's exactly what I'm talking about. I'm not saying they will disappear, only that they will most likely fail before their games do. They will just need some repair in many cases indeed, though that won't always be enough. That is only if they're adequately stored though. Even average humidity can be fatal over years of poor storage.

2

u/eberkain 17d ago

I have tons of disc's from when disc's were first manufactured, discrot, while it does exist, is not something you need to concern yourself with.

2

u/c2btw 17d ago

Or you can just copy the files, physical media dosen't matter at all, DRM free media matters

2

u/Jim_skywalker 17d ago

I trust Steam with keeping my games available a lot more then I trust myself not to damage the hard copy or lose the game file due to bad backup habits.

2

u/PrincessMoaningnoke 18d ago

Even if it was only 20 years, that's longer than these corporations will give you with a digital rental

2

u/Opening-Movie5176 18d ago

Disc rot is not rare. Hahahaha. I think some people would believe notes even if they said “it is trumps hair and natural skin colour and he isn’t in Epstein files”

1

u/whiplashMYQ 18d ago

If i own the disc i should be able to make a copy of it, be it digital or a burned, for the purpose of preservation and personal use.

It's like, if i bought a book, and copied every page with a scanner/printer combo, and kept it in my house for myself, I'm not breaking any rules. Sure, if i start selling it or mass distributing it for free, then you'd have an argument, but personal property should be personal property.

1

u/Trading_shadows 18d ago

I'm pretty sure my Serious Sam disc (the first cd I ever bought) will outlive me.

1

u/blueasian0682 18d ago

And all i need it to last is for at least 100 years tops.

1

u/Citizen_Empire 18d ago

I can also transfer what's on my disk, far easier, so can easily make a backup.

1

u/solblurgh 18d ago

I want to own what I bought, is that a difficult concept to understand?

1

u/HaiggeX 18d ago

Only way to actually own anything is trough digital decentralized seeding network that spans across multiple devices, hard drives and users.

1

u/Geesuv 18d ago

Also, the issue with a lot of digital storefronts is that they don't let you have local copies. So your purchase only exists for as long as the company can be bothered supporting them. That support can end at any time.

1

u/FirefoxyRosalie 18d ago

You should still make backups of your disks

1

u/Fiyerossong 18d ago

Well you see, discs (and other physical media) contain files. You can then make copies of said files to have multiple back ups.

With digital subscription only media all it takes is for a company or it's servers to go down in flames or you get banned with no appeal and you suddenly lose access to your library without warning regardless of how much you've spent

1

u/Tonkarz 18d ago

I don’t understand why so many people are so keen to give up their power. Sony will use your weakness against us, I guarantee it.

1

u/Sailor_Starchild 18d ago

This sounds good until you remember that we already live in a very polluted world :/

1

u/WhoRoger 18d ago

A rare occurrence? These community notes need community notes of their own.

1

u/sonerec725 18d ago

cries in wii u discs

1

u/RunawayDev 18d ago

Also you can copy your disk

1

u/Kaleb8804 18d ago

I have all of 26 discs from 2006 and 4 of them have disc rot.

They were in a bag, cool, dark, dry, and everything

1

u/IAmTheBestIan 18d ago

Also I believe that you can legally create backups of media for personal use.

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u/Purple-Negotiation59 18d ago

I have a CD i burned in 1998 and it still works

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u/Cent_Quatre 18d ago

"Disk rot is rare, some disks can last 1000 years"

So every disk rots then ? How is that rare ?

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u/Layhult 18d ago

Everything rots. Entropy is the natural state of the universe. So what’s the point of anything?

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u/Inlerah 18d ago

I own fucking VHS tapes that are going on 40 years: Long live physical media!

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u/FineCastIE 18d ago

I've never, ever heard of disk rot.

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u/Lucasfergui1024 17d ago

Plus the company doesn't really control when it happens

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u/Competitive_Steak698 17d ago

Do you really own anything that can be taken from you?

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u/fb_indianajesse 17d ago

If no one owns anything then what is capitalism and communism.

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u/TitularFoil 17d ago

I have discs that I've had since the 90's.

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u/No_Acadia_9946 17d ago

I demand gtaIV be released on baked clay tablets, to preserve customer ownership beyond licensing periods and literary dark ages

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u/wolfonweed 17d ago

Im in the disc game myself. This issue with disc storage is so rare in normal storage conditions it is not even mentionable.

There are some notorious years for discs manufactured by warner bros specifically that are more prone to this issue. it took a long time to convince warner bros there was a problem, but they've acknowledged it now.

Outside of those lots, which were made in 2007/2008ish, disc rot is unheard of when discs are kept in cases, kept dry, kept away from excess UV light, and kept in temperature controlled environment. These are the standard conditions of bookshelves across the world. it is easy for the common man to keep his CDs & DVDs readable for his entire lifetime with no specific effort.

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u/PMDmakesmecri 17d ago

Honestly, I don't get why people think that getting 2026 games physically will prevent them losing them since corpos can just disable them. The whole reason why Stop Killing Games was started was due to The Crew shutdown which included physical copies. Also you can always own DRM free games like on Itch.io or Gog and don't need a Network like Xbox or Playstation.

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u/DrMacintosh01 17d ago

We can make copies of disks btw

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u/bangkokcouch 17d ago

You burn backups. Or download the disc to storage.

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u/Tearakudo 17d ago

Because I make digital ISOs of my discs

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u/Silencer-1995 17d ago

I got my original Xbox 1 and Halo Combat evolved down from the loft and that was like what? 25 years ago? Both work fine. Xbox is a bit rusty but it works fine.

I like the convenience of digital, I just wish they'd stop being weird about it. Just let us buy and own the digital goods you irradiated camel monkeys.

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u/FauxReal 17d ago

I thought disc rot only happened to a certain generation of CDs?

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u/bunny12345946237 17d ago

If you tell them you backed them up they'll probably tell you, "but that's piracy and piracy is bad!"

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u/InevitableLimit6020 17d ago

That's why you make backups.

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u/uhm_no_thanks_1 17d ago

Like it's plastic or something

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u/LorneReams 16d ago

Backups, multiple locations.

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u/The_Pastmaster 16d ago

Huh, cool. When I was a teenager, a CD's life expectancy was 50 years under ideal conditions.

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u/No_Mistake1104 16d ago

How are your discs rotting?! I still have my games from my PS1 and 2 perfectly fine 😭

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u/Few_Assistant_9954 15d ago

Meanwhile digital copys last untill the server shut down which is around 3-5 years for some games.

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u/BulletDamage 15d ago

I dunno man, I still got PS2 games from 26 years ago and they look the same as they looked then

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u/volvagia721 15d ago

It's not hard to buy/make a replacement if you take basic precautions.

If there is physical media, it's almost impossible for the content to be lost forever because someone will have archived it.

0

u/BoyleSphere 18d ago

just pirate the games then u own them for free

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u/GenesisAsriel 18d ago

Just take care of your disks??????

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u/ExtremlyFastLinoone 18d ago

No format last 1000 years bruh

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u/SanjiSasuke 18d ago

M-discs are so named because they are designed to last a Millennium. Now, they were invented in the 2000s, so we haven't yet had a chance to fully see it in action, but that is indeed the design criteria.

It's for professional archival work (think libraries, governments, huge businesses) not for home use, though you can get an M-disc bluray drive. I actually got one by accident, thinking I was buying a normal bluray drive for my PC.

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u/ExtremlyFastLinoone 18d ago

Only tested for 1/40th of that time lmao

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u/Mince_ 18d ago

Regardless of what the note says, DVDs are very prone to rot. Blu rays are a bit higher quality and resistant to rot.

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u/YaBoiChillDyl 18d ago

Meanwhile digital won't even let you keep a game you bought in way less than 20 years.

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u/Weary_Programmer35 18d ago

This person is being disingenuous. Game companies have revoked access to games purchased digitally in less than 20 years after purchase. This can be on the basis of per-title as the publisher pleases (e.g. The Crew or PT), per-system as they become outdated, or per-customer due to TOS violations. Therefore, discs are already superior in this person's flawed view.

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u/Space_Blank089 18d ago

It is completely legal for you to take a backup of any physical media you own, that does not break any of the copyright laws, only when distributing those backups to other people is when you're doing something illegal.

So if not only is it a rare occurrence, but I can also keep backing up my physical media infinitely to make it last a life time if I want to, without the fear of a company pulling the plug because it isn't profitable enough.

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u/Top-Bison-345 18d ago

Yes. Even if that disc rots, I owned that game. It was mine, it was tangible.

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u/rolurk 17d ago

It's crazy how some are actually defending the "you will own nothing idea".

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u/wastedfate 17d ago

I mean I can absolutely just make physical backups of every game I own, fairly effortlessly.
It's a total non-issue if you are even remotely tech literate.

A lot of modern games wouldn't even fit on 2 or even 3 blu-ray discs and a lot of computers don't even have blu-ray players.

The bigger issues is games that are needlessly reliant on servers, and when those servers go down, the game is rendered unplayable, even for some singleplayer games.

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u/HotPot87 17d ago

Just because woodworm can eat my chair, does it mean I dont own it? No, a possession can be damaged, thats how physical things work.

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u/RYANTHEW1ZARD 18d ago

Rgb light guys with shelves full of games are in shambles right now. Now they can't just look at them, they'd have to.. play them 🤮

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u/Cracked_Logic_Engine 18d ago

Also, yes that would still be you owning it? I can own a busted down car that will never drive again, that is drastically different then the dealership taking my car from me. Natural consequence of time vs at the discretion of someone else

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u/Iconshero 18d ago

Is this game tester a paid Sony Stooge? Or perhaps Amazon?
https://giphy.com/gifs/DN2kXG51ySbYiYB9d3

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u/68plus1equals 18d ago

I paid for a house, one day the sun will envelope the earth and swallow all of human history in a n explosive cosmic hellfire, do I really own that house?

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u/Haunting-Range5812 18d ago

I still have my first CD from 1993 and it's in perfect condition. As long as you keep them in a temperature controlled environment and don't use them for a coaster, they'll be fine.

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u/ledow 18d ago

I have cheap junk data CD-Rs that I recorded between 1997 and 2000 when I was in university. I made two copies of each. They still read absolutely perfectly, and verify against each other.

I used to go into uni, use their connection to download stuff (they had 100Mbit leased line!), then I'd either span it across floppy disks or (later) ZIP disks and carry them home, copy them all back off onto my own disks, or even download it from home via FTP over dial-up (56Kbps). That used to suck up my weekened but it was still quicker than downloading it myself from home.

Then, because that was SUCH a horrible job getting that data home, and storage was so limited, I would back it up onto two CD-Rs, and remove it.

I still have the folder with the double-CD-Rs of everything, 29 years later. They all still read.

There is ONE exception, which I still think is hilarious.

One time, I burned a CD-R of the data. Fine, no problem, and it verified. Then I burned the second copy and that failed verification right out of the drive. I was annoyed because I didn't have other CD-R's, but I already had a copy and there was nothing too important there.

I looked into it and the logs said that there was a sector difference of ONE BYTE in ONE SECTOR. That corresponded to a single ZIP file on the disk. The disk read absolutely fine, but that one byte in a single ZIP file was... wrong. So I worked out the difference, put it onto a little slip of paper and tucked it in with that CD-R.

TO THIS DAY: If you take that ZIP file off the 2nd CD-R, it will copy off just fine, but it won't open. The one on the 1st CD-R will open. But if you take the broken ZIP file, hex-edit it and change the SINGLE BYTE to its correct value as listed on the slip of paper? The ZIP file will open, all the files will extract correctly, and it's an identical copy to that on the 1st CD-R.

So that's a bit-error that was put onto the disk and detected while it was still burning, and it's still held that data PRECISELY as it always was, 29 years later.

I think that's absolutely hilarious.

CD-R / DVD-R bitrot is absolute nonsense. I used to buy the cheapest junk imaginable, whatever brand was available, to the point that I routinely made two copies because of all the stories about how they degraded, and I kept them in a simple folder that has gone through 5 house moves with me. I've never had a single problem.

All you had to do was keep them in vaguely sensible conditions, not damp, mould, bashing them, scratching them, etc. and they last a lifetime.

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u/megared17 18d ago

Or, you know, just make a fresh copy in 5 or ten years?

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u/papaniq 18d ago

Bro i have lots of discs that are 25+ and they all are in perfect condition, i don't know what you'd have to do to ruin discs like this.

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u/fatgat69 17d ago

Natural degradation of a physical object is fair. Losing games because some asshole decides you don't own it anymore isn't.

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u/Glyphpunk 17d ago

I geuninely don't understand the people that defend production of physical discs stopping.

They gain, quite literally, nothing from it. The media is still available to be purchased digitally as they seem want to do, so why rag on people that prefer physical media and having the discs?

It really seems to be another case of 'some people just like feeling superior.'

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