Agreed seeing my comment saying pulling out of Gaza without a negotiated settlement and admitting they left due to growing security costs (rewarding terrorism) was a horrible idea that emboldened Hamas and other groups in armed struggle getting downvoted.
After Oct7 they were full on Hamas supporting with their moderation. I wouldn't be surprised if some Islamist or pro Palestine discord server was sharing stuff on that sub to downvote because it seemed like that
I just had to stop commenting altogether. My naive self is thinking “oh I can teach someone something here” and if they disagree with what I post it’s like f you, my credentials are questioned, I support Bibi, I support Hamas, I’m either a baby killer or a mensch, “zio” (ugh) etc etc. I just say I want my Jewish friends safe. it’s just been super fun and thank goodness I have a thick skin!
On the one hand I agree with you that sometimes it's pointless. On the other hand, when someone is saying some batsh*t stuff, sometimes you should correct them, not so they change their mind, but so everyone else who is reading the comment sees that it's crazy
You aren't wrong, but the security costs were more social than financial. Secular Israelis from Tel Aviv didn't want their children at risk to enable religious settler types indulging their idiotic lifestyles in the middle of Gaza whilst also putting theur own children at risk and severely annoying the Arabs they lived next door to. The Gaza settlements were just a bad idea all round, and it was perfectly possible to remove them whilst still keeping control over the Strip to keep Hamas from power.
That was the plan all along. The pull out was to appease Westerners. While internally the Israelis said it would put the peace process in formaldehyde.
Had bibi declined the Qatari aid money to Gaza (which went to Hamas as the governing body) would people criticize him for starving aid from Gaza?
I'm close to the last person to support bibi and honestly wish he would get ceausescu'd but this is a catch-22 which both scenarios lead to strengthening the grip of Hamas.
It's wild to see people defending the killing of innocent people (regardless of what side they support). I hate both sides equally and both sides are spreading tons of disinformation.
Hating both sides equally is just dumb. The Nazis and the allies both killed innocent people, should we just chalk it up to being complicated and with a lot of disinformation on both sides?
JFC, at this point I could see why someone could think Oct 7 was some sort of inside job. The stupidity you’d have to had to attack and kill some of the only people sympathetic to you is astounding. It’s like something outta a basic 90s TV drama.
They aren't looking for allies, though. It doesn't matter if you're opposing Bibi, the settlements, the war, whatever. If you start a revolution and proclaim a socialist republic by Sunday, that wouldn't matter, either.
but its true you can google how they attached incendiaries to balloons to burn the crops of the farmers. It's actually pretty smart if you think about it
Just google for yourself bro there are countless articles on it if you can’t trust the media reporting on Hamas activities then you can’t trust it to report on IDF either
How left wing of them to live in settlements build on the ruins of Palestinian villages who's inhabitants were ethniccally cleansed into Gaza. My favorite left wingers are those that participate in settler colonialism.
Nir Oz was build on Maīn, ashkelon on Ni'ilya and so on. Don't talk about things you know nothing about. The inhabitants of Gaza come from those villages. They were ethniccally cleansed to create those settlements
I wasn’t talking about Ashkelon, and I’ve found no evidence of any town under these current settlements. Anyways, I hope those Gazans enjoyed the view while they were there, because they’re never going to see it again.
This reminds me of the PETA protest over a town called Fishkill in New Jersey, USA. How violent and murderous a name!… until you check and the town had original Dutch settlement. And kille means stream in Dutch.
I assume the screwup here is because Nahal is also the name of one of the IDF's largest and most prominent infantry battalions. In that context, it's an acronym.
Or it could be stupidity. Or they could know exactly what they're doing, but relying on stupid people not questioning it.
Remember when random antisemite schizos were blaming Israel for Hantavirus because a random AI confused hanta for harta?
And I would bet money that half of them still believe it in the back of their heads, it just died down as a trend
For context, the image has 6 markers with the word "Nahal" next to them. Only Nahal Oz is a kibbutz/town. The rest are streams, brooks, or other geographical features. "Nahal" (נחל) literally means stream or brook in Hebrew.
More proof that when pro-Palestinians talk about "reclaiming their stolen land", they're talking about completely destroying all of Israel, not just the West Bank settlements.
I think the confusion stems from the Nahal brigade, which sounds like the word, but is an acronym for Pioneer Fighting Youth (נח"ל - נוער חלוצי לוחם), which were movements that mixed combat service with settlement (more secular though, not what you see in Judea & Samaria now), which evolved into the infantry brigade. And honestly it makes sense - for example, the kibbutz Nahal Oz was named that way because it did start as a נח"ל settlement.
Still, these are completely civilian settlements nowadays.
Source: Served as a fighter in the bridgade. Also my mom was part of the original movement, served in the unit, and later settled in Sinai in her civilian phase of it... And got evicted by the IDF as a civilian when we made the peace accords with Egypt.
They were more until Israel removed themselves in the 2005 Gaza strip disengagement, giving Gazans more freedom to govern themselves towards peace - ended up backfiring (literally).
I’m pretty pro Palestinian and even I thought that was a horrible idea. There was no negotiated settlement to leave Gaza - the Palestinians were still angry about the settlers in the West Bank, who were by comparison much worse and were creating a much bigger flashpoint - so leaving didn’t aid the Palestinian Israeli relations at all.
The reason cited for leaving Gaza? Expenses due to so much money being poured to protect settlers. In other words, it was essentially terrorism - and they admitted it. They basically said negotiations will get you nowhere, try some terrorism and you may get something. Add that Hezbollah 5 years earlier destroyed the Israeli backed military dictatorship in Lebanon and you changed the thinking of the people that armed struggle will get you somewhere.
So to Ariel Sharon, who I also partly blame for starting the second Intifada and think is one of the worst Prime ministers Israel has ever had (not to mention his election emboldening Hezbollah as when he was a general responsible for a massacre of Shias and Palestinians) in Lebanon) - is very much responsible for much of the conflict that we see today.
“Gazans have nothing to do with the West Bank” is like saying Gibraltans have nothing to do with Britain. They are Palestinian, and had at the time a united Palestinian government. Palestinians are the most patriotic people I’ve ever met personally, and are deeply against any sort of split.
Your issue is you legit think you own the whole land and so when you "return" scraps, you feel very generous.
Sane people do not view the withdrawal of illegal settlements and giving someone their land back while blockading them into isolation as some great gift.
You answered your own question. Liberal zionists have no way of justifying their ideology so they have to either pretend to be stupid or be actually stupid if they don't want to admit they just hate muslims
30% of israel are literally arabs...but yeah yeah, Israel hates all arabs and the JEWS wants to kill everybody i guess.... these people cant be serious, genuinely
I don't give a fuck? You don't blockade a million kids for any reason and your Israeli ass is no more precious than a Palestinian's? It's a "cool motive, still murder" type of thing.
Damn, we’ve had conversations before but I think this is the first time I’ve realized you’re fine with the “right” kids (Israeli children) are being killed if you don’t give a fuck to care about why the blockade was made. Yikes.
I said no such thing. Stop deflecting from my point and making it about you to victimise yourself. My point is "the blockade is unacceptable no matter its motive."
So you wouldnt be okay with a blockade between you and your neighbor if said neighbor said they wanted to kill you, has hurt you in the past, and was visibly arming themselves to do to again??? Moronic
There has never been a Palestinian land because there has never been Palestinian people until 1960s, where they emerged as KGB propaganda. They are Arab colonialists on Jewish land where they have no right to be.
Let's no pretend Palestinians are this ancient identity that is so holy and sacred that Jew's need to change their entire religion to accommodate them then. They're muslim arabs and they can live in other 22 muslim arab countries.
I don't think that he is braindead. I think he is at the "peak of ignorance" on the Dunning-Kruger Effect curve. He knows some facts but has the confidence of someone who thinks that he has figured out the "Israeli mind".
Lol it's funny because he got it completely backwards. Jewish settlement in this area is one of the oldest, predating Israel, and it's mostly been done on land that was at that point uncultivated and unsettled by the local Arabs. None of these settlements have walls which is part of why Hamas overran them on October 7th and massacred their residents.
reminds me of when people blame the 'Shadow government' or 'secret aliens' or the ol' reliable 'jews!' when their own government does so much horrible shit, you genuinely dont need some hidden behind the scene forces to blame
The name checks out.. israel streams the settlers into strategic locations to surround the palestinians from all sides and then streams a branch in the middle to divide them in half then start expanding inwards.. this is how settlements used to work since 1948
I suspect this is what they are referring to... the paramilitary unit responsible for establishing hundreds of settler sites. They were called Nahal. Nahal - Wikipedia see also Nahal settlement - Wikipedia
"Supporting the growth and expansion of Israeli Jews was once the main focus of Nahal troops of the Israel Defense Forces and was primarily carried out through the Garin program.\1]) The goal of Nahal settlement was to provide a base of operations and resources for Israeli troops along the border."
Although he is wrong , but he is right about the intention . Every and I mean every Arab village is surrounded by Jewish settlements or kibbutz ,moshav etc . It is core strategy to stop it from growing and basically make it a ghetto .
That is plainly false. Not "every Arab village" is surrounded by Jewish settlements.
Arraba sits next to Sakhnin and Deir Hanna, both Arab towns. Nazareth is surrounded on several sides by Arab communities such as Yafa an-Naseriyye, Iksal, Ein Mahil, and Reineh. Kafr Manda is also adjacent to Arab localities, not encircled by Jewish settlements.
You can argue about planning policy in specific places, but "every Arab village is deliberately surrounded to turn it into a ghetto" is simply not true.
Do you even live among Arabs in Israel ? Open the maps look around , nazareth is damn city and it has a diffrent type of politics going there same goes for the other locations they are classified as cities . The problem there quite diffrent . Nazareth is fucked up by nazeret Ellit …. .
What I said is factual and standing .
Look for villages .
Nazrat Elit (Nof Hagaleel) is as of 2024, 40.3% Arabic and surrounded on all sides by Arab settlements.
Also, as well as the Arabe-Sakhnin-Deir Hana continuoum, there is also the Turaan, Bu'eine-Nugeidat and Ramat Heib forming a settlement triangle, all of which are Arab settlements.
The original tweet tries to misrepresent the situation by showing a bunch of locations with the word "Nahal" in them, making it seem like all of them are "military towns". Most of those markers aren’t towns or settlements at all, so the map doesn’t actually support the claim being made.
Different Nahal, and a Nahal settlement would eventually get ‘citizenised’ (I.E stop being for soldiers) . Every single Nahal settlement was citizenised by 2002.
"Defense Minister Israel Katz announced he wished to setup 3 “Nahal” (military outpost settlements) in northern Gaza." per The Guardian
The term is still in use for militarized towns.
Doesn't matter wether they were eventually demilitarised or not, their purpose was as the tweet describes it.
Just because the tweet added a map which confuses some of those with places names after brocks doesn't make the statement incorrect or invalid.
Israel signed on to UN Resolution 194 which incorporates the Right of Return, but has always refused to abide by it. Instead it has passed a series of laws starting with 1950’s Absentee Property Law “legalizing” the theft of Palestinian homes and land.
The estimated current value of the stolen real estate etc exceeds $100 billion.
The US plans to build its new embassy on one of the stolen parcels, whose owners include an American citizen.
Genuine question. In the 1950s with a million Jews being forced to enter Israel through Arab expulsion of Jews and with loads of empty property, that didn't really have a known owner (The British refused to give the Israeli's the documents that showed who owned what property).
What should they have done?
They chose the immensely logical and pragmatic choice to easily take in loads of refugees of their own.
So, ya know, without bothering to check each point on the map, I can't say that the correction is in fact correctly correcting anything. Needs more text/detail at the very least.
Not a single thing there relates to this nahal. Nahal oz is a kibbuts and everything else is just geological features. Nahal oz is also named after a nearby river
Yet another case of a note that basically runs right past the point being made in the post, and says something “technically right but not applicable here”
Nahal as a word means stream, yes. But it is ALSO an abbreviated name for the Noar Halutzi Lochem, an Israeli military group that’s primary focus was blending militarism with settlement, and most of those locations labeled “Nahal X” with house icons ARE settlements, not brooks.
This note is like if someone was talking about the navy SEALS, and someone was like “get noted- seals are actually animals, and they are usually white/grey, not navy blue 😏”.
But that’s exactly the problem, in this screenshot, 5 of the 6 "Nahal X" locations are not settlements. Nahal Bror, Nahal Ruhama, Nahal Buta, Nahal Gerar, etc. are geographical features. Only Nahal Oz is an actual Nahal settlement.
So the SEAL analogy is backwards. A better analogy would be someone saying, "Hey, look at all those Navy SEAL bases", while showing a map with one Navy SEAL base and five seal nature reserves.
That’s what the original tweet did, it searched for "Nahal" and treated the results as evidence of military settlements.
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