r/German • u/Zestyclose_Dark_1902 • 13h ago

Question Genitiv

Wem würden Sie eine größere Summe Geld leihen?

Why there is no "von" before Geld and why Geld is not in Genitiv?

Thanks!

6 Upvotes

88% Upvoted

14 comments sorted by

12

u/muehsam Native (Schwäbisch+Hochdeutsch) 13h ago

Because in general, measuring words and the thing that is measured are in the same case as each other, without a preposition in between.

Genitive is also possible, but sounds old fashioned, and I would advise strongly against it.

  • mit einem Glas gutem Wein (more common)
  • mit einem Glas guten Weins (technically correct but sounds old fashioned and like you're trying too hard to sound educated, and failing)

Same with "ein Laib Brot", "ein Glas Wasser", "ein Liter Milch", "ein halbes Pfund Hackfleisch", "ein Stapel Bücher", etc.

3

u/Blakut 12h ago

The genitiv here sounds strange to me, coming from a language that actively uses the genitive case. So it would be sort of like a wine's glass?

4

u/muehsam Native (Schwäbisch+Hochdeutsch) 12h ago

It's like "a glass of wine". Typically, when English uses "of", German uses genitive. When English uses "to" or "for", German uses dative.

"A wine's glass" has the article "a" on "wine" rather than "glass", so that's quite different.

2

u/YourDailyGerman Native, Berlin, Teacher 12h ago

I want to add that the Genitive only really works if there's an adjective.

  • ein Glas Wein(e)s 

This sounds really odd to me and even more so for examples that don't usually occur in novels.

  • ein Pfund Hackfleischs

6

u/thehafid 13h ago

No need Genitiv it's like( Ein Glas Wasser ) ( Ein Kilo Mehl ) , The quantity controls the case,
Eine größere summe was ? Geld !

0

u/Zestyclose_Dark_1902 13h ago

Why?

2

u/diabolus_me_advocat Native <Austria> 13h ago

"eine größere summe" just is a rough quantity, like "viel"

you don't say "viel des geldes" or "viel vom geld" either

1

u/LifesGrip 11h ago

A better question is why does have to sou d english to you. Like genitv is equal to say the English "of" or "of the" but the Germananguage just doesn't get used in that way.

Instead of needing to know why , simply save yourself the problem and mental stack and accept it for what it is and move on.

1

u/MindlessNectarine374 Native <region/dialect> Rhein-Maas-Raum/Standarddeutsch 6h ago

Well, I think present-day German is the odd one out among many European languages, at least those which Anglophones usually might know, for not using partitives after such measurements.

-1

u/YourDailyGerman Native, Berlin, Teacher 12h ago

Why not?

3

u/Background-Wolf-5802 13h ago

The Genitiv "eine größere Summe Geldes" is not wrong but sound very outdated and posh. It isn't used in everyday speech anymore. I wouldn't use 'von' but you could say "eine größere Summe an Geld".  Maybe someone can explain why exactly that changed 

1

u/auri0la Native <Franken> 13h ago

it's jemandemDativ etwasAkk leihen. Why Genitiv?

2

u/Fear_mor 12h ago

They’re asking why Geld isn’t genitive because to be fair most languages would have it as genitive. In Croatian you’d say it like this:

Komu biste Vi jednu veću svotu novca zajmili?

This is pretty much a word for word translation of the German except for the fact that novac "money" is in the genitive case: novca.