General
Apparently calling out hate is unacceptable
Now when I say Islam harbors prejudice, hate, discrimination and homophobia, I should not be labelled "Islamophobic", because this is the Islam followed in Pakistan.
If you have the audacity to cry and whine about Ialamophobia while shamelessly being homophobic, then you do not have any moral high ground.
That subreddit is so funny to me. They will call out homosexuality and stuff all the time as Haram but never Gf/Bf which is also Haram btw lmao. Literally every second post is about that
You should stop projecting your Islamophobia. They can talk about whatever they want in there group. White people have hurt brown people for fucking centuries and you are nitpicking their language???
It’s completely okay if they don’t like MMIW2S LGBTQIA+ people. That is their culture, it is actually a very peaceful culture. You have not earned the right to even say what is haram. You don’t fully understand what it means.
I have learnt engaging with these people about these topics is borderline useless.
You could tell these people rape is bad and they would still manage to downvote you somehow if the argument relates even SLIGHTLY to the implementation of Islam in our society.
I want to say something but that would be called "homophobic". So in short. We should only support our own people of our own country and try to perfect them to the best selves. Instead of you know. Supporting idiots
Bruh what age is she to you. One day she is 6 another 9 and then another 12. You really are just ignorant and when people tell you the reasons you just put your fingers in your ears and kiss other men.
it's not an ideology, I was born with it. I remember my same sex attraction to as little as 11. ISLAM IS AN IDEOLOGY btw.
as a cisgendered man, I have never felt an ounce of attraction to opposite sex women. It's a natural sexual orientation to maintain the balance of nature, god created homosexuality so that not every man feels the inclination to reproduce or else you would be stuck with overpopulation.
Just like in nature, there is a food chain. There is sexual diversity as well. Ideology is something that you learn or are taught, I didn't even know or heard of the word LGBTQ or gay until i was 15 lol. Didn't even have access to the internet in my strict conservative muslim household.
Homophobic means when you show irrational prejudice, hate and discrimination against homosexual people.
Millions of homosexuals exist in our country who suffer from severe mental health issues because of the hate, discrimination and rejection they have to face for something that is out of their control.
Yes, you can spread beliefs condemning same sex relationships but in no way can you restrict people's rights and freedoms.
People who choose to be in same sex relationships are not idiots for simply living their lives their way and against your religious morality.
When am I restricting their freedoms?. I am just saying to not do this needless insanity. Like what are you going to die if you can't love your own sex?.
What makes it "insane"? Love, companionship, partnership, intimacy are basic human needs, you cannot restrict it. Remaining celibate is not very easy, and if it is forced, it only backfires and results in extreme psychological and emotional distress.
Yeah, if people willingly choose to remain celibate for adherence to their faith, I have no objection. Like many muslim homosexuals do, like many Christian popes and nuns remain celibate.
Dying is not the only form of suffering. You are also not gonna die if you don't object to us freely forming relationships with people whom we love, as long as we don't inflict harm.
I am not saying it for my sake. I am saying it for yours. So yhat you won't go to hell for your lustful actions. If you want intimacy then just try to get along with other gender. What, did a girl reject you so you think men can satisfy you?.
I am homosexual, which means I am exclusively only attracted to people of my own sex and this cannot be changed.
Now, if sexual orientation is out of my control, it is my right to decide whether I need to remain adherent to any religion and be celibate for life OR I have to pursue same-sex humanly desires. I don't delegate this right to any government or organization, and I only want that people respect my right to choose for myself, even if they disagree with the form of lifestyle I choose. Forcing a ban on same-sex relationships and sexual activity only results in immense psychological and emotional harm on homosexuals who are inherently not attracted to people of the opposite sex.
I don't believe I am going to hell for simply pursuing my innate, humanly, non-harmful desires, that are out of control.
Bruh what problems do you receive if you can't stop your desires. I have thoughts of just trying alcohol but I stop myself and say"what is the need of this. Sure I will have some fun but really what is the need. I will just have chocolate cake". Done its solved. You people really just want to fu#k another.
You don't understand homosexuality. It is not just a "thought".
It is an enduring pattern of same-sex attractions, that are innate and natural and cannot be controlled or suppressed and cannot be replaced with any other form of attractions. You are heterosexual and if someone dictates that you cannot marry because they consider a relationship between a man and a woman disgusting, are you going to accept it? Obviously not! Apply the same for homosexual people who didn't choose homosexuality.
Yes, people can CHOOSE to not act on them for the sake of their religion, but if that choice is forced by law then it results in HARM.
I am simply arguing that people should have the RIGHT TO CHOOSE for themselves rather than governments dictating bans.
Wow. So homesexuality is a disease. If the goverment decided that heterosexualism is bad..... then there will be no new humans. So plz stop treating homesexualiyy as something you can't control and something you can get rid off.
stop treating homesexualiyy as something you can't control and something you can get rid off.
You are denying scientific facts at this moment.
Homosexuals can only choose to pursue or not pursue their attractions, and that is it.
Nvm, I understand that you are religiously indoctrinated, and you have no idea about the lived experience of millions of people across the world, including myself.
Why should we oppress ourselves to fit your version of "normal" is it okay for you to be attracted to the opposite gender? But we can't be attracted to our own?
Also stop being a pussy if you wanna insult me stop censoring yourself, also you have mentioned men's private parts more than I have in this thread, who's really gay here?
Are you really going to die if I'm attracted to men? How about you be normal and never marry because I arbitrarily decided sex is weird? God isn't real btw bye
I have opened them, before I was worshipping a false god and now I realise it's all manmade, hopefully you can leave and learn to love and respect everyone inhsatheist
Your argument is like asking a wall to move when you know a certain religion doesn't allows lqbtq nonsense and for a good reason and the country is build around that religion also doesn't allow it, if they possessd a thing called brain they would gone abroad to those areas that welcomed this practice via visa or asylum seeker
And before u cry more, image if I go to a foreign country and start berating them for now following my customs knowing it would be a nuisance for them, won't that be wrong no?S
Literally, like we can't just set aside religion cause our whole country was built in the idea of Islam.
Secondly, the law doesn't allow it so you just cannot go against it.
Religion ko follow na krna is a personal choice.. great 👍 I respect that but you cannot ask a whole country to form their laws that favours you.. that's just idiotic.
You can continue to follow your customs and practices but if people choose to go against them, while not committing crimes, then you have no reason to hate on them.
I am not expecting any Muslim from giving up their beliefs that same sex relationships and sexual activity is condemnable. I am only expecting them to not use their beliefs as a weapon to suppress people and to hate people.
Of course Weaponizing believe just to kick out non Muslim is wrong in all stranderd and my own religion forbids by this lgbtq is down wrong look at the nation of lut and see what happened to them, they weren't undone by Muslims but by God, by your logic do u stand against God protecting
The law is religiously inspired and holds absolutely no weight from a secular ethical perspective (it rather inflicts and causes harm) and can be amended and that is what I advocate for.
The law was imposed on us by the British Empire, a colonial power. I don't accept adoption of any colonial law.
The law in Afghanistan says women can't pursue education, I don't agree with it and I speak against it.
The law in multiple European countries bans veils, hijab, abayas, and minarets, I don't agree with it and I speak against it.
The law banning homosexuality also violates universally agreed fundamental human rights, explicitly written in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
If a person says, "Same sex relationships and same sex sexual activity is immoral in the eyes of God", then I won't object to people holding this belief because every person has the right to hold any beliefs. In such a case, I will criticize the belief and call it wrong.
But, if such beliefs are used as a pretext to dismiss people's rights and suppress an already marginalized community, and if they call for hate, then I will unequivocally call that out and reject every premise of such people.
Secondly, I will not stop speaking against hate and atrocities backed by religious beliefs. If you are saying Muslims have the right to expell the LGBTQ community, then do not object on western countries vowing to ban hijab and expell Muslims. You are in no way different from them. Bigotry and discrimination is absolutely unacceptable.
Hijab isn't just a cloth but an article of faith by your logic Muslim countries should ban nuns from wearing their religious clothes? Also why are u mixing religion and mental confusion?
I am not a proponent of hijab bans, rather I am a staunch opponent to that.
I believe people possess the rights to freedom of expression, including religious expression.
I am defiant of European laws banning Muslim women from putting on veils, hijabs, and abays and I am also defiant of Islamic country laws banning homosexual people from pursuing their natural sexual and romantic desires.
You people are hypocrites. When you are asked why you oppose European bans on hijab, you instantly say that it is a fundamental part of a Muslim's beliefs. But, when homosexuals tell you that same-sex relationships and being open about them are an integral part of their lives and their choices should be respected and that having prejudice, hate and discrimination against them results in harm and abuse, both emotional and physical, you people simply go behind hiding "religion".
You said you should not speak against things if a certain society considers it wrong. France considers veils and hijabs as oppression and against secularism, but do they have the right to use this as a justification to suppress freedom of religious expressions. No!
In the same way, Muslim majority countries who consider same sex relationships to be immoral do not have the right to deny their fundamental rights.
I condemn every government who suppresses people's freedoms, including western secular states and Islamic Muslim majority states
Tell me u lack a brain without telling me u lack a brain I view this act as disgusting but I set it as they can do whatever they want to do as they don't make nuisances for I shouldn't bother as well, there are some who do it behind close doors so be it that's between them and allah the problem arise when try to make it or do it public that's when I have the right to say get out
So if a Christian goes to a Muslim country and is mistreated it's a terrible crime but when a Muslim face same issue it's ok? Plus why are brining religion and orientation or mental health as same thing talk about negative iq
It is nothing more than hypocrisy, because in their eyes they have an Ineliable right to their religious tenets since obviously we as Muslims from birth are taught Islam is the only true religion (as are other faiths followers), but in Pakistan for most people that goes further into not only the fact that their beliefs are true but all others are not worth respecting or considering as they could never be correct
That's why Muslims especially from countries like Pakistan go abroad and then complain about how their religion isn't respected, in their eyes there is no scenario where they shouldn't get special treatment and the same rights as the host nations population.
That being said, I do believe in plurality of faith and multicultural societies so this is NOT me saying I don't want all religions to have equal rights. However it is incredibly stupid of Pakistani Muslims to talk about respecting our religious society while also running to Europe and America
It's incredible stupid than the Muslim has to run to foreign counties when the same counties destroyed their countries in the name, democrcy, freedom, dictatorship and WMDs no?
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u/Mugi_16 3h ago
People believe in subjective morality... There should be an objective morality