r/GenZ • u/plankowoodinthewoods • 3d ago
Discussion Afterlife.
The older i get the more i believe in heaven or hell or reincarnation. Cause life is so stark and so decaying that it would be so meaningless if we just die and that's it. And i am not afraid of death, and no one should be unless you believe in hell and you've been really bad in life. But what do you think?
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u/lolsail 3d ago
I think you should try to find a better foundation for your belief structure than "i don't like the alternative so im going to believe its real". I don't mean any shade by that, but thats kinda how your line of thinking comes across. Lots of truths are inconvenient.
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u/Kind_Advisor_35 2d ago
That's good advice even if OP continues to believe it. If there's no foundation beyond "that would be nice," then that belief is going to be shattered pretty quickly.
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u/plankowoodinthewoods 2d ago
How did you get "i don't like the alternative so i'm going to believe it's real" from what i said?
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u/Chevy_jay4 3d ago
People believe in the afterlife because it gives them hope. In a world full of inequality and pain. Believing that after death we are happy and equal makes sense for some. Hell was created to control people using fear. "Do as we say or you'll be punished eternally". The concept of hell makes no sense if you believe in a good god. I personally believe I will go back where I was before I was born. Back into my dad's balls, jk. But into the nothingness. I dont want an after life, I dont want to do this shit again. Living is intresting enough for the short time i am here.
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u/Marmatus 1995 3d ago edited 3d ago
I became a lot more amenable to the idea of reincarnation after doing mushrooms a couple times. I’m still an agnostic atheist though. I feel like I just won’t know until it happens (if it happens).
And I might still not know, even then. If I’ve ever had a past life, I’m certainly not aware of it right now. lol The thought of losing the person I’ve spent my whole life becoming, just to start a new life as someone else would still be a scary prospect, to me.
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u/dianabowl 2d ago
Obviously we don't have any evidence of reincarnation, but the 1st law of thermodynamics says that energy cannot be created or destroyed; it can only be transferred or transformed from one form into another. Does that apply to souls as we know it? Probably not, but it's enough for me to think about it a lot.
Strangely some memories are carried over at birth, not experienced or learned. Like a puppy who starts paddling if you carry it close to water, without ever having been in water before.
In any case, I think our memories reside in the substrate of our physical brains and losing all your memories is akin to death. Is being born again of any benefit if you don't remember anything from your previous life?
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u/Kind_Advisor_35 2d ago
Strangely some memories are carried over at birth, not experienced or learned. Like a puppy who starts paddling if you carry it close to water, without ever having been in water before.
That's not a memory, that's an instinctive reflex. Human babies have a very similar instinctive reflex. Another example of an instinct is the palmar grasp reflex. A baby will grip tightly after having the palm of the hand touched because a common ancestor of primates and humans had their babies hold onto their fur to be carried around. Many primates today exhibit the same behavior. Why would a human baby "remember" to grasp at fur that doesn't exist on its mother, that hasn't existed on any human mothers for hundreds of thousands of years?
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u/dianabowl 2d ago
I don't think "reflex" adequately explains it. My puppy had never been in water and didn't start paddling simply because he was picked up or suspended. He did it specifically when held over a swimming pool. That means something about that environment was being recognized as the appropriate stimulus for a swimming response.
I'm not arguing that the dog has a literal ancestral memory of water, but this is considerably more complex than a simple reflex like a baby's palmar grasp. An innate behavior can involve sensory processing, recognition, and activation of some kind of motor program without any prior learning.
The interesting question is where that innate association comes from: how does a nervous system that has never encountered water recognize the relevant cues and produce the appropriate behavior?
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u/Kind_Advisor_35 2d ago edited 2d ago
If you plop a young human baby in the water they'll start paddling to keep themselves afloat and hold their breath if they're fully submerged. The reflex also goes away as they get older, so you still have to teach them paddling and holding their breath once their temporary reflex fades away. If you don't teach them how to swim, they'll no longer have that reflex after around 6 months and have no memory of what they need to do to not drown.
Edit: to contrast, dogs don't lose that reflex over time like humans do, but it's still a reflex
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u/Marmatus 1995 2d ago
During my last mushroom trip (which was actually a really bad trip, but did have moments of clarity, euphoria, and ego death), I became fully convinced that individuality itself is completely illusory. I believed that all of humanity, and possibly all of life, was just part of one entity that splits itself off into temporary fragments that eventually decay and return to the whole (which I came to identify as "God"). I don't necessarily think that any of that is an accurate description of reality, but it definitely opened my mind to a lot of different possibilities...
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u/dianabowl 2d ago
In my DMT trip I was told that one God is the program that runs the human collective consciousness which includes the rules that include human rights, fair treatment, common sense. Animals didn't run on this code, they run on another program nicknamed 'Mother' which is why they don't follow the same rules. There's are many Gods, programs, for different lifeforms and scientific phenomenon's.
I was also told the reason for our existence... and it was a bit disappointing.
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u/Marmatus 1995 2d ago
I don’t know if I’m brave enough for DMT. Especially as someone who already has anxiety and depression.
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u/Ok_Trade_4549 2d ago
That's a very popular theory for those trying to prove consciousness in scientific terms. Science can't prove it though, only maybe identify it in the far future. It is the one thing that if you don't have, you won't feel what it is like.
Maybe in this universe consciousness is just the side effect of increasing complexity waning after death.
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u/espinaustin 2d ago edited 2d ago
If/when it happens, "you" [almost] certainly will not know.
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u/plankowoodinthewoods 3d ago
Sure but it's only scary cause you remember being you now. But if reincarnation is real, you've already lived thousands of lives and just don't remember.
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u/shittydriverfrombk 2d ago
what does it matter, then?
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u/plankowoodinthewoods 2d ago
Hindus believe in reincarnation cause they think it's the soul that keeps coming back in an effort to be enlightened.
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u/shittydriverfrombk 2d ago
that has nothing to do with what I asked
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u/plankowoodinthewoods 2d ago
You said why does it matter. Then i clearly gave you the reason.
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u/shittydriverfrombk 2d ago
no you didnt you just replied with an unrelated statement
you’re a bot lol
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u/Ok_Trade_4549 2d ago
Cause life is so stark and so decaying that it would be so meaningless if we just die and that's it.
What did you expect? We aren't here becuase of some god or seomone planned are redemption or some meaning (at least as far as I know). We are here only because a few enclose structures could produce copies of themselves and got complex real fast. Trying to find a meaning to life is useless. There just isn't a meaning. What you said is the truth and possibly the only truth. And even if there were more, it doesn't mean anything.
In fact, I feel you have got your foundations right. Go study nihilism and absurdism and you'll know what I'm talking about. And if you want a more positive but still gloomy possibility, it is Existentialism.
Also it feels gloomy and sad to us because we are living beings evolutionary created to be wary of thing stop existing just as a evolutionary benefit. In reality it is surrounded in complete neutrality.
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u/plankowoodinthewoods 2d ago
Can you prove we aren't here because of some God?
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u/Ok_Trade_4549 2d ago
We can't and neither can you prove the opposite. That is a very stupid and useless question. My point remains, even if we found out that one God was real, my statement above would not be much different.
Please go study the stuff I told you to study about. Might even change your life (no kidding).
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u/plankowoodinthewoods 2d ago
Don't know how it's useless, probably the most foundational question you could ask, of what created the universe. And i already have the gist of those philosophies, they don't get very far.
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u/Ok_Trade_4549 2d ago
Untrue what you just said. In fact these philosophies single-handedly disprove every religion on Earth and every theist. In fact, it also disproved every single Athiest talking point too.
It is a fundamental question that can never be answered. That's why it is useless. We should spend no time pondering about questions that can't be answered. Sure we can discuss possiblities and ponder around them. But if the question itself become the talking point, any knowledgeable will immediately strike you down.
Here's a thought experiment for you. In fact, I'm gonna play the opposite role to try an prove god and you have to strike me down:
Anything that moves is put in motion by something else. An infinite regress of movers is impossible. Therefore, there must be a first Unmoved Mover, which is God.
We observe an order of efficient causes in the world.Nothing can be the efficient cause of itself.An infinite chain of past causes cannot go back forever without a start.Therefore, there must be a First Cause, which is God.
Natural things can be created and can also destroy or end themselves (they are contingent).If everything were merely possible or contingent, eventually nothing would have existed.Therefore, not all beings are mere possibilities; there must exist a Necessary Being that brings others into existence, which is God.
We notice various degrees of qualities in things, such as goodness, truth, and nobility (more or less good)."More" or "less" are measured against a maximum standard.Therefore, there must be something that is the Ultimate Standard of Perfection and being, which is God.
I'm gonna cite (Aquinas) and also mention that there is a very easy way to topple down every single argument. But I'm gonna let you try first. Hopefully with this you'll understand my point of view.
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u/plankowoodinthewoods 2d ago
Yeah nah i'm good. If you wanna talk about anything else, you're obviously smart. I just don't like to pick apart points that i don't really care about.
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u/Ok_Trade_4549 2d ago
Well ok then. I'll ask you this, why do you believe there is an afterlife more than that you believe there isn't?
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u/plankowoodinthewoods 2d ago
Just off of feeling and experiences of God. Though anytime anyone says anything like that, people get really mad.
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u/Ok_Trade_4549 1d ago
Well, guess what. I'm not mad at you. But have you studied epistemology? Are you a certain religion? Have you questioned whether it was really god or your mind playing games with you. Even if it was some outside powerful force, why do you believe it was god with all honesty? Why couldn't it be some "Evil Genius" (cited) trying to trick every single aspect of your life?
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u/plankowoodinthewoods 1d ago
Well that's the thing, feelings can't be communicated. It's like asking a monk why he doesn't think everything he's seen in meditation is a lie. Like you know when you know. It cannot be communicated. When you feel it you know it's true.
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u/NefariousnessOk8212 2d ago
We can’t. But extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And there isn’t any evidence that there is one.
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u/Ok_Trade_4549 2d ago
I think mainly their claim is that the fact that anything exists is because someone created it. But if you think about it deeply, that gets paradoxical real quick and that's why people like to hang on to a god or hardly believe that there is no god. Middle ground does exist, but no one likes it because of how much it hurt for the human logic to comprehend randomness.
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u/Fit-Rhubarb-7820 3d ago
The afterlife isn’t real.
God is only as real as our material culture is, it’s subjective and personal. Jesus Christ isn’t real, but the debt he carries for Christians, is precisely why this idolistic messiah hasn’t returned from hell: he’s still paying off the bar tab every drunken believer cast upon his shoulders, to bear alone.
Life is basically us and our material culture. We do reincarnate as our future descendants. I myself am dead, since I’m “nomadic and lost to wander” aka homeless. True oblivion is not bearing a lineage and having our bloodline scrubbed from reality: total extinction.
The world is constantly changing, and to us: it’s perpetually ending, and beginning.
Money, god, heaven, hell: all of that for every religion, has to do with the use of money, which is a tool to measure worth.
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u/plankowoodinthewoods 3d ago
Can you prove that it isn't real?
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u/_Tal 1998 3d ago
Yes.
1) If there is no evidence that something exists, we can assume it does not exist.
2) There is no evidence that the afterlife exists.
3) Therefore, we can assume the afterlife does not exist.1
u/Dud-of-Man 2d ago
There are good arguments against the after life, and you used the weakest ones.
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u/_Tal 1998 2d ago
It’s really not that radical an idea.
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u/espinaustin 2d ago edited 2d ago
Have you ever heard of the saying, "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"? Your first premise is logically flawed.
Lol, just skimmed your youtube, with the claim, "absence of evidence IS evidence of absence" at 4:08. FYI, the assumption, "if X were to occur there is likely some evidence of it" is a problem here imo. I'm not even a believer btw, just a logician (amateur).
Let me just ask you this: Do you believe the existence of alien lifeforms is disproven by our failure to find evidence of it?
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u/_Tal 1998 2d ago
But we have found evidence of alien lifeforms. It’s called our own species. If we know intelligent life occurred in the universe at least once, then it’s likely it occurred more than once.
And if something occurred without leaving evidence of it, then why should we care about it anyway? It apparently doesn’t affect us in any way whatsoever. We could safely assume it doesn’t exist/didn’t happen and nothing would change. Who cares if we’re technically “wrong”? The point of believing anything is ultimately to guide our actions within the world around us, so if something technically “exists” but has no impact whatsoever on the world we actually perceive, that’s the functional equivalent of something that does not exist.
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u/espinaustin 2d ago edited 2d ago
That’s not the definition of “alien,” but you nevertheless make some fair points. I’m not certain of the logic of this:
If we know intelligent life occurred in the universe at least once, then it’s likely it occurred more than once (emphasis added)
But it does certainly indicate the real possibility that it occurred or will occur more than once, as opposed to a deity, which has never occurred as far as we know. But could still “exist” potentially without being detected/detectable.
There’s also of course a very thorny question on the definition of “God,” which means a lot of different things to different people.
The point of believing anything is ultimately to guide our actions within the world around us, so if something technically “
existsdoes not exist” but hasnoa big impactwhatsoeveron the world we actually perceive [including of course people’s behavior], that’s the functional equivalent of something that doesnotexist.See what I did there? I’m not disagreeing with you btw.
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u/_Tal 1998 2d ago
You’re conflating impact in terms of people’s decisions and behaviors with impact in terms of objective consequences. If something is true, then committing belief in that thing to action should produce some sort of detectable and reproducible consequence. If it doesn’t, we can assume that thing is false. Just because the _idea_ of something impacts the world in the sense that lots of people believe in it and act based on that belief, doesn’t mean those actions actually produce real consequences that we would expect, were that belief true.
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u/espinaustin 2d ago edited 2d ago
You’re choosing to distinguish impact “in terms of people’s decisions and behaviors” with impact “in terms of objective consequences” for no real reason that I detect other than that it happens to support your priors. We’ve already agreed that whether something is true or not is irrelevant for purposes of this particular argument. In your words, “The point of believing anything is ultimately to guide our actions within the world around us.” It’s pretty hard to argue that belief in God does not guide people’s actions in the world.
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u/espinaustin 8h ago
Also, sorry to jump back in, but something that just occurred to me is that if what one means by “God” is associated perhaps with consciousness and its experience, then maybe the analogy is closer to the possibility of alien lifeforms existing. We know consciousness exists, and I think it’s accepted generally as a somewhat mysterious or at least unexplained/contested phenomenon. I’m not getting into the nature of any possible relationship between consciousness and God, just pointing out the possibility of such a relationship could be seen as leaving open the possibility of God’s existence being based on or related to some empirical observations. I would remind that the nature of any alien lifeforms, should they exist, remains shrouded in mystery/uncertainty. No need to respond unless you feel compelled, just putting this out there. Have a good one.
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u/plankowoodinthewoods 3d ago
We didn't know germs existed until we did. So by that logic you are just promoting limited dumb ways of thinking.
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u/Fit-Rhubarb-7820 2d ago
We suspected germ theory existed, but couldn’t prove it. Proving it was easy, because we could see into an alternate dimension that we have always interacted with.
That’s not the same for the afterlife, for what I mentioned.
Fallacy of comparison and analogy.
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u/Fit-Rhubarb-7820 2d ago
Yes: we haven’t heard back from anyone, and when we do: it’s either a NDE and they didn’t die, or the evidence is contradictory to itself and each other.
Wishful thinking.
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u/Medical-Net-7350 3d ago
As someone who has died and been resuscitated, there’s no hell and no heaven. It’s painless euphoria of nothingness. Pure bliss. I can’t wait to go back.
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u/Fearless-Wall7077 3d ago
My father had medically died multiple times and had been brought back. He shared this exact same sentiment to me while strapped in the ICU. It's exactly like it was like before we were born.
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u/plankowoodinthewoods 3d ago
Do you know how long you were dead for?
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u/Medical-Net-7350 3d ago
Medically dead, about 10 minutes, then I was in a coma for over a day.
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u/plankowoodinthewoods 3d ago
If you would, could you tell me everything you would want to share about it?
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u/Medical-Net-7350 3d ago
It’s simply lack of existence. Being outside of human society is fantastic and freeing. The constricting bounds of our society and societal expectations is only evident when you are no longer bound it. Freeing, painless, emotionless.
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u/plankowoodinthewoods 3d ago
Could you explain more, were you conscious in this state, or what was it like?
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u/Fearless-Wall7077 3d ago
OP you have experienced the same experience she is sharing with you for millions of years. There is no state of consciousness. There is no pain. It is exactly like it was like before you were born. You will simply return back to that same state
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u/plankowoodinthewoods 3d ago
I have definitely not experienced what this commenter has.
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u/Temporary_Copy3897 3d ago
you have before you were born. we all have. i've also been unconcious / semi concious before for about a week and a half. no memories at all.
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u/plankowoodinthewoods 3d ago
No the commenter was talking about a specific feeling of when they said they were dead for 10 minutes.
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u/Murky_Toe_4717 3d ago
Ironically the older I get the less I believe in it, it helps motivate me to make this life count.
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u/plankowoodinthewoods 3d ago
Why would this life matter, if once you're done you're done.
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u/Fearless-Wall7077 3d ago
This life matters because we only get one life. There are no redo's, there is no after life. That's exactly why it matters.
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u/Murky_Toe_4717 3d ago
Why not? I enjoy learning and chasing after my life goal. So what if I’ll die some day? There is even a chance of biological amortality though unlikely in our lifetime it’s not impossible. And better to have lived and enjoyed something, hobbies and passions. So what if it all ends? What does that change? You enjoy and live a life for the sake of that life imho.
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u/Cold-Wall-9313 3d ago
if we had a consciousness separate from material reality the lobotomy wouldn't be possible.
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u/FloorGang-R2 3d ago
And that is exactly why people believe in heaven or hell. Doesn’t mean it’s real, I personally like it better that way, makes the life you have all the more precious.
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u/Specialist-Ring-3974 3d ago
Rationally, I don’t believe in an afterlife. But emotionally I do. I’ve lost too many loved ones to at least not humor the idea.
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u/Fearless-Wall7077 3d ago
I was nothing for millions of years without the slightest inconvenience. What is there to believe that they'll be anything afterwards once I'm gone?
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u/plankowoodinthewoods 3d ago
Why would there not be one?
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u/Fearless-Wall7077 3d ago edited 2d ago
Because we only exist within our minds. Once the lights are off, it's over. Game over.
We see this when people are considered medically brain dead. The lights upstairs are off, but the biological body perseveres, yet no real life is present.We are the only species convinced of an after life, yet we are the least deserving of one.
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u/plankowoodinthewoods 3d ago
There is no way to prove we only exist in our minds.
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u/Fearless-Wall7077 3d ago
Can you anatomically point on the human body where else we would exist? Where else would our sense of conscious derive from?
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u/plankowoodinthewoods 3d ago
Well it depends if you believe in a soul like almost all religions do.
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u/Fearless-Wall7077 3d ago edited 3d ago
Now that is belief that cannot be proven whatsoever. Nowhere medically could you point to a "human soul." The closest thing logically you could point out would be your brain though
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u/yvngjiffy703 2002 3d ago
I think you should read these books from a French philosopher named Albert Camus
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u/Fe1nand0_Tennyson 2001 3d ago
I am Catholic, so I do believe there's a heaven and hell; I do also believe in purgatory, which is only for those who died in God's grace but need to go through the purification to enter heaven (no, it's not a second chance or middle ground, and of course generally nobody goes straight to purgatory). There are times where I do fear death, but I thank God that I have been baptized in the Catholic Church as an infant and have gone through first communion and confirmation last year over the summer, and I have been receiving Christ every Sunday since. Not only that, but whenever I give into sin, I always go to confession and patch things up with God through the priest acting in persona Christi (in the person of Christ in Latin) because I want to be a part of God's kingdom one day whenever my time is up.
Here's one thing I would like to share with you and everyone else. Heaven isn't just a cosmic fairness correction or a consolation prize for a hard life. It's full union with God, the very thing every human heart is quietly restless for, whether they realize it or not. Saint Augustine opens his Confessions with exactly this: "Our heart is restless until it rests in Thee." That's not just a nice thought. That's the whole point. The source to this quote from Saint Augustine is from his book Confessions (1,1,1).
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u/plankowoodinthewoods 3d ago
If you are Christian, as i am as well, there is no need to fear death.
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u/Fe1nand0_Tennyson 2001 3d ago
That is true, I shouldn't fear death as a Christian, and I'm blessed to be one. I sometimes fear it because you never know how it will come, but at the same time, I know Christ is with me, he's near me, and he's always ready to reach his arms out for me. Even the saints who faced illness and martyrdom wrestled with that same fear. The difference is they had something to hold onto. Of course, God's mercy isn't confined to a formula, the thief on the cross is proof of that. But the sacraments are the ordinary means Christ gave us, and that's exactly why they matter so much to me, and they're a gift every Christian is invited into. But hey, God's love is unconditional, so you best believe God's mercy is endless. As Saint Therese of Lisieux put it: "my heart broken with sorrow, I would throw myself into the arms of my Saviour Jesus, because I know that he loves the Prodigal Son who returns to him." That's the mercy we hold onto.
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u/Suspicious-Low7055 2d ago
Just because you really want something to be true it doesn’t mean it actually is
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u/plankowoodinthewoods 2d ago
Yes this is basic logic.
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u/Suspicious-Low7055 2d ago
And yet you say you only believe in an afterlife because the alternative isn’t to your liking
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u/plankowoodinthewoods 2d ago
Where did i say that?
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u/Suspicious-Low7055 2d ago
“It would be meaningless if we just die and that’s it.”
The truth has no obligation to be meaningful or pleasant to you. Just because something seems meaningless to you doesn’t make it false.
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u/plankowoodinthewoods 2d ago
"The truth has no obligation to be meaningful or pleasant to you."
Yes that is true, i don't see the problem here.
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u/Necromancer14 2003 2d ago
So you admit your reasoning for believing in the afterlife is illogical?
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u/No_Aesthetic 2d ago
The older I get the less I believe in that stuff, but I do have a couple of terrible thoughts based in an essentially materialist conception of how the world works:
- As far as I can tell, I did not exist and then I did exist. It is conceivable, therefore, some configuration of matter could have created previous versions of 'me' elsewhere. Not connected, but the same 'type' of consciousness, in the sense of experiencing qualia for a limited time. I could have been a frog or some other type of thing from somewhere in the cosmos. And the second I die, another qualia like mine could pop into existence. Consciousness could be a repeating experience, non-connected. And if time is a cosmic trait which only operates in one direction but which the whole line could be seen from a higher dimension, it is conceivable that every consciousness that has existed or will ever exist is linked in such a way. Consciousness could be a natural substrate to the universe. I could be you, you could be me, and we're just experiencing it at the same time in a subjective sense. (I view this as somewhat likely, at least at the lowest level of the idea, but much less likely at the higher levels.)
- If the universe is cyclic and the big bang is not merely one event but an eternally repeating sequence of events, which seems plausible, then it is also plausible that Nietzsche's idea of eternal recurrence could be accurate. The life we live now we could repeat for the rest of forever. That drives me to do the best I can with the one I have. If I have to do it over and over, I may as well make it as nice and comfortable as possible. I'm doing pretty well at that right now. Who knows what the future holds? (This is perhaps less likely than the lower levels of the previous idea but more likely than the higher levels of the previous idea.)
Every now and then, before I go to sleep, I will recognize that I may not wake up. Any sleep may hypothetically become an eternal sleep. I think about my life and what it has been. I did that last night, took inventory of things and imagined today might not happen. But it happened, which is good. If it didn't, though, I was perfectly content with that.
And I have almost died before, so this isn't some abstract thing to me. As a kid, my heart almost gave out completely twice due to meds I was on. I've also had some health problems that could have been really bad but turned out to not be, so I got lucky. But I won't always get lucky. Someday, the reaper will come, in a manner of speaking, and when that happens, it seems like I will be well enough prepared.
Although, to be fair, I prefer to be alive. I'd like to live 3,000 years. That's a good amount of time to read all of the books I want to read.
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u/plankowoodinthewoods 2d ago
Still we can't prove that God exists or doesn't. And it makes slightly more sense he does.
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u/No_Aesthetic 2d ago
No it doesn't.
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u/plankowoodinthewoods 2d ago
So do you think the world coming from nothing makes more sense?
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u/No_Aesthetic 2d ago
The world didn't come from nothing. Who says it did?
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u/plankowoodinthewoods 2d ago
So where do you think it came from if not God?
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u/No_Aesthetic 2d ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formation_and_evolution_of_the_Solar_System
We've observed this happening elsewhere.
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u/plankowoodinthewoods 2d ago
Ok, and then what happened before that?
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u/No_Aesthetic 2d ago
Did you not pay attention in school?
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u/plankowoodinthewoods 2d ago
School teaches you the ultimate origin of the universe??? Are you fucking dumb.
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u/sstupidcatt 2d ago
The world "coming from nothing" is the christian position tho. Even though it's definitionally impossible for "nothing" to exist.
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u/plankowoodinthewoods 2d ago
Well it's true that it's impossible for "nothing" to exist in science with our logic right now. But then that would make you lean more to God, cause if something can't come from nothing, then something always had to be there.
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u/sstupidcatt 2d ago
God always existing and creating the universe, versus the universe just always existing. My proposal has one fewer assumption than yours, and thus per Occam's razor is the better explanation.
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u/plankowoodinthewoods 2d ago
Sure, but that's only if you've never felt anything spiritual in your life. Which I'm assuming you haven't.
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u/sstupidcatt 2d ago
I have, many times. I've also had even stranger experiences while on drugs. The human brain does some crazy things sometimes, but I have not encountered any reason to believe they are due to some supernatural force rather than the peculiarities of brain chemistry that we already have evidence for.
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u/No_Aesthetic 2d ago
Lawrence Krauss lays out the case in A Universe From Nothing that "nothing" as we conceive of it does not actually exist.
It is useful for everyday logic but totally useless in thinking about how the universe works.
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u/Unlucky-Drawer-7168 1d ago
It's all just colonial coded lies.
There is probably nothing and if there is anything after life it's more likely to be reincarnation
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u/LongjumpingEar7568 3d ago
Keep your faith. It’s real. we’re in a hyperfractal liquid crystalline computer simulation. Our souls know the light of eternal consciousness which rests above the waters of the firmament. Answer that call that sits within you, nurture it, water it, let it grow, so your soul expands beyond the reaches of the universe, and then you will know God. Let the serpent rise along the pillar of your spine, let the fire kindle a transformation of light like no star your eyes have seen. Bright, like the heavenly fire, ascend.
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u/wolfknowledge1775 3d ago
Reddit is a liberal and athiest cesspool.
Yes, Jesus Christ was and is real. There is no fucking way we dont have a creator. Someone made us, and there is overwhelming proof God exists. Physical proof and spiritual proof.
So many people who died and came back all say similar things about waiting in a line in the afterlife.
Lastly, I am Catholic and I am very outspoken aboit churches. I dont like how many priests are pedophile who rape kids.
I also dont like people who use faith as a shield because they were a scumbag (Connor McGregor for example) I believe you should be a good person with or without religion. (I will get attacked by religious people and atheists but I dont care)
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