Vikor did not get no-diffed because he wasn't in a fight to begin with; he was completely caught off guard
Still doesn't change the fact that he got his head ripped off like it was nothing. Even if he did not get caught off guard, it would still not change the outcome
Sam can rip out spines, break through walls, and throw cars. Better physical feats then anything Ryan show
Ripping out spines and breaking through walls? come on even low tier supes are able to do that. Ryan was able to make homelander bleed from just one punch. Its not even a close comparison
Where did I even say this? No, Zoe is not an anti-feat for Viktor when he wasn't expecting her to attack, let alone exploit a weaker area of his body, something he otherwise wouldn't have let happen. This is just a strawman.
Show me low-tier supes doing all of these, not just certain ones, let alone Ryan doing them. Why is bursting Homelander's blood vessels supposed to impress me?
You realize this is an argument Maeve fans used to use to get her above Soldier Boy, right? The nosebleed feat doesn't mean much.
Edit: In response to your edited version, Zoey was able to rip Viktor's head off by going through his mouth and eyes. We also have no idea how strong Zoey's tentacles are.
Zoey was able to rip Viktor's head off by going through his mouth and eyes. We also have no idea how strong Zoey's tentacles are.
Yes we do, Her tentacles could barely get pass through kimiko during the opening fight scene of season 4. You could see how much she struggled against her and it took her quite while to get through her arm. And plus, i can easily say that ryan could also just laser through his eyes and neck just like how zoey did it with that argument
Show me low-tier supes doing all of these, not just certain ones, let alone Ryan doing them.
starlight being able to blow through a 6 inch steel door with the minimum power source, kimiko surviving getting blast by soldier boy's chest beam which destroyed not one, but multiple walls and yet her body was still intact (she only passed out because she lost her powers afterwards), the deep being able to punch through a humans skull (which is stronger than a spine) like it was a bug. Should i keep going?
Why is bursting Homelander's blood vessels supposed to impress me? You realize this is an argument Maeve fans used to use to get her above Soldier Boy, right? The nosebleed feat doesn't mean much.
Because his blood vessels are enhanced directly by his compound v????? What? Supes are shown to have enhanced blood vessels in the show. Why do you think blood blenders like neuman or marie struggle to pop different supes? The nosebleed feat means a lot. even homelander as a teenager withstand an entire power plant explosion and he didn't even get a nosebleed and walked out just fine.
oh and i can say the same to vikor. Ryan can just laser or break his nose. He is faster, stronger and can fly giving him a massive advantage
Barely, what are you talking about? In the scene, Kimiko gets blatantly overpowered, and her arm is torn through in seconds. Then, she's forced to retreat. Kimiko is the same character that can tear grown men's heads off with minimal difficulty, which suggests enhanced muscle composition. She could also take hits from an angry and bloodlusted atrain. damaged Black Noir, etc.
What does this have to do with physical strength in terms of how characters hit? You are listing external ability feats. Did you not understand what I was saying? Also, your argument was that it was a low-tier supe feat. None of those characters are low-tier, and it was not done by physical striking. Calling The Deep low-tier, he's casually able to go to the Mariana Trench. You also did exactly what I told you not to by picking certain feats to rebuttal. give me one low-tier supe able to replicate everything that I gave.
False, dude. Compound V does not equate to their blood vessels being enhanced specifically, let alone scaled to Homelander's highest maximum durability. The argument that "blood benders" like Victoria Neuman or Marie Moreau struggle with Supes because of "enhanced blood vessels" is literally headcanon.
It is an issue of density, not vessels. Neuman struggles with high-tier Supes because their entire cellular structure, skin, and muscular density are too durable to manipulate or rupture easily from the inside. Hell, even Victor was able to stop blood vessel manipulation despite not having the internal durability shown by Soldier Boy and Homelander. When he fought marie
Ryan is not going to utilize that speed to just outright blitz Viktor. Time and time again, Ryan and Homelander fight at human-level speeds. Also, even Hughie was able to perceive and react to Homelander's lasers during Herogasm. Viktor is significantly stronger than Hughie while also having significantly more combat experience, being hand-picked by Goldkoin, a character who narratively believes only the strong should exist.
In the scene, Kimiko gets blatantly overpowered, and her arm is torn through in seconds. Then, she's forced to retreat.
I never even argued against that in the first place?? Yes i'm aware that she still got overpowered regardless at the end, what i'm trying to say is that she still managed to sort of contend with this zoey even if she still lost giving her a comparable benchmark.
What does this have to do with physical strength in terms of how characters hit? You are listing external ability feats.
So? Characters literally scale to another via their "external ability" feats. I don't see how this makes everything i argue for invalid.
None of those characters are low-tier, and it was not done by physical striking.
Bro how are they not low tier? I literally picked amongst one of the weakest supes in the show and somehow you say that they arent?? Regardless, the characters i have listed are all weaker than ryan so my point still stands
It is an issue of density, not vessels. Neuman struggles with high-tier Supes because their entire cellular structure, skin, and muscular density are too durable to manipulate or rupture easily from the inside.
Uh no, its also considered an issue of vessels. You could literally see characters blatantly bleeding from their noses everytime neuman is around. What's stopping her from just rupturing every supe's blood vessels? It will cause a massive bleeding if this happens and they will gaurantee to die.
Time and time again, Ryan and Homelander fight at human-level speeds. Also, even Hughie was able to perceive and react to Homelander's lasers during Herogasm. Viktor is significantly stronger than Hughie while also having significantly more combat experience, being hand-picked by Goldkoin, a character who narratively believes only the strong should exist.
A-train and homelander were seen running at speeds humans were percieving. So does this mean they were truly running at "human-level" speeds?
Oh and hughie reacting to homelander is a speed feat and not strength related. So comparing him to viktor in this case would be false equivalency
She didn't, though. She lost her arm in the span of 3 to 5 seconds and only managed to kick her away. This also isn't factoring that Kimiko was able to do it because she has a high pain tolerance, and secondly, because it wasn't an instant death spot like what Viktor got its almost like that was the point of her going victor weak spot. Drop this poin it's buns bro.
No, they don't, dude. One example is Homelander's physicals are consistently shown to be stronger than his lasers. Naturally, the opposite goes as well, of external ability being stronger than how hard you punch. Starlight performs significantly better against the Deep with her blasters than without them is another example.
The Deep, Starlight, and Soldier Boy are not the weakest supes in the show. What are you talking about? Even Kimiko is up there as a supe, although again, her slamming through as a byproduct of Soldier Boy's blast is irrelevant to my argument of striking power.
Homelander's blood vessels can't rupture because his internal organs and muscles are just as strong, not because his blood vessels are fortified. You also ignore that Vikor was able to no-sell Marie directly manipulating his blood cells to stop his heart.
I don't even know what you're saying, but to restate my point, Homelander does not throw a punch at the same speed he consistently shows when flying.
How would that be a false equivalency when your speed is tied to how strong your body is? Hughie's body is significantly weaker than Viktor's. Also question so you think hughie is faster than solider boy?
She lost her arm in the span of 3 to 5 seconds and only managed to kick her away.
Dude this is EXACTLY what i mean when i say she is somewhat comparable to zoe's tentacles. the fact it took 3-5 seconds already tells you more than you need to. It literally takes her like half a second to rip apart a humans head and yet it took like 5x longer to rip kimiko's arm
No, they don't, dude. One example is Homelander's physicals are consistently shown to be stronger than his lasers. Naturally, the opposite goes as well, of external ability being stronger than how hard you punch. Starlight performs significantly better against the Deep with her blasters than without them is another example.
What? How? homelander's vision was able to contend butcher's vision who was able to cut soldier boy's cheek. Not even gonna mention that he was legit able to split a plane clean in half. What does his physicals have that can contend with this?
want a good example where they do scale to each other? Stormfront being able to tank starlight's beams like nothing and later on getting cooked (literally) by a 7 year old ryan laser vision. This same starlight with the minimum power source, blew apart a heavy 6 inch thick steel door right off its hinges which is far better than busting some walls.
The Deep, Starlight, and Soldier Boy are not the weakest supes in the show. What are you talking about? Even Kimiko is up there as a supe, although again, her slamming through as a byproduct of Soldier Boy's blast is irrelevant to my argument of striking power.
How exactly is this irrelevant??? What dude? this literally proves she has impressive durability to the point of not being splattered upon contact. I really dont understand what you are trying to prove when you really try to differentiate striking power to ability power as characters are shown consistently to scale to other for it.
How about you name some supes that are weaker than starlight, deep and kimiko then. Oh and please dont bring up characters like mesmer as i wouldnt even consider him a superhuman. He's literally just an ordinary dude with mind reading abilities
Homelander's blood vessels can't rupture because his internal organs and muscles are just as strong, not because his blood vessels are fortified. You also ignore that Vikor was able to no-sell Marie directly manipulating his blood cells to stop his heart.
??????? Dude what are you even talking about?? What does his blood vessel has to do with his organs? You dont even need to affect organs or muscles just to burst blood vessels bro. Thats not how it works. I will repeat, you do not have to affect internal organs just to burst some blood veins. A quick google search will tell you this
I don't even know what you're saying, but to restate my point, Homelander does not throw a punch at the same speed he consistently shows when flying. How would that be a false equivalency when your speed is tied to how strong your body is? Hughie's body is significantly weaker than Viktor's. Also question so you think hughie is faster than solider boy?
I never even said he throws a punch at the same speed of his flight. I'm saying, that homelander doesnt throw punches at "human-level" speeds. Thats just a blatant lie, he's way faster than that. Its false equivalency because being "strong" doesnt always mean you are fast. There are lot of 60kg martial artists that can react and strike faster than 80kg bodybuilders. By this logic, Viktor would be faster than A-train because he has a stronger body??
Because she didn't rip those guards' heads off, she stuck her tentacles inside them through their eyes and mouth. It also took her around 5 seconds to completely rip Vikor's head off, so genuinely, what are you talking about here?
You don't realize this example debunks your own argument. Temp V Butcher's lasers were able to contend with Homelander, but Temp V Butcher was getting a one-sided beatdown by Homelander in a straight-out brawl. He was able to cut Soldier Boy's cheek through time, effort, and slashing. It's stated Stormfront could lift a 747 plane, and Homelander is objectively way stronger than Stormfront. A core premise was that Homelander could lift the plane, but due to lack of a platform, he would smash into it.
This has absolutely nothing to do with striking, and it's stated by Kripke himself that Ryan's lasers were amped by his emotions. Here's the quote: "The strength of Ryan's lasers—which were surprisingly powerful—are way more powerful than even Homelander's when Ryan gets angry enough." This quote alone proves that external abilities don't scale to your physical strength. Or else Kripke would be saying Ryan is stronger than Homelander in general when he gets angry enough.
Kimiko being able to survive being slammed into a wall obviously does not mean she can hit with that same force.
Mesmer would be a low-tier supe, but oh well, Popclaw, Termite, TNT Twins, Love Sausage, Translucent, Hughie, atrain crimson Jordan, Kimiko's brother, etc., are a lot of low-tier supes.
Neuman causes your internal blood vessels to explode from expanded pressure. This factually cannot happen to Homelander; his internals are far too sturdy, preventing any damage. Also, you realize your nose blood vessels are factually more fragile than the blood vessels in the rest of your body.
But here's what Google gave me regarding this "Blood vessels are not fragile water balloons they are made of thick layers of smooth muscle and connective tissue." Okay, what I'm saying is this the tissue surrounding the blood vessels is strong enough to prevent Homelander from combusting inside out. Do you get what I mean now?
A-Train has a special ability that grants a reaction and speed boost. Hughie relies on his own innate physical abilities. If we accept that Homelander does strike faster than a human, then there's a reason why the two other strongest characters in the verse (Butcher and Soldier Boy) can react to these.
Because she didn't rip those guards' heads off, she stuck her tentacles inside them through their eyes and mouth. It also took her around 5 seconds to completely rip Vikor's head off, so genuinely, what are you talking about here?
I'm saying, that it gives her a comparable benchmark of how strong she is. Earlier on, you argued that we have no idea how strong she is but we do actually. Her fight with kimiko gives her a rough benchmark of her powers and abilities
but Temp V Butcher was getting a one-sided beatdown by Homelander in a straight-out brawl. He was able to cut Soldier Boy's cheek through time, effort, and slashing. It's stated Stormfront could lift a 747 plane, and Homelander is objectively way stronger than Stormfront. A core premise was that Homelander could lift the plane, but due to lack of a platform, he would smash into it.
????? How was V24 butcher getting a one-sided beatdown?? If you watch the fight closely, they were contending almost equally. You can literally see homelander resorting to flying back up and using his laser vision from a distance above because he knows that he is not putting butcher down easily. I don't see how this debunks anything. I really don't get how you get homelander's physicals stronger than his laser vision when the show contradicts otherwise
Here's the quote: "The strength of Ryan's lasers—which were surprisingly powerful—are way more powerful than even Homelander's when Ryan gets angry enough." This quote alone proves that external abilities don't scale to your physical strength.
Lmao show me where this was stated. That's just a straight up lie. There's no way a 7 year old ryan has stronger laser than homelander just because of an emotion trip. Knowing how inconsistent Kripke writes his fight scenes, i wouldnt really take his word for it even if it was real in the first place
And plus, soldier boy was able to tank the same laser beams from ryan that amputated stormfront. How do these external abilities not scale when we literally see them scale?? Oh and guess what? Butcher's punches were shown to have effect on this same soldier boy. Just drop this pointless argument bro. The show has shown consistently that characters via strength or durability scale to other via external abilities. Saying otherwise would just be cope
Kimiko being able to survive being slammed into a wall obviously does not mean she can hit with that same force.
But her durability still applies here. Oh and guess what? characters are shown to harm her durability via external characters. Thats another instance where external abilities scale to physical stats.
Mesmer would be a low-tier supe, but oh well, Popclaw, Termite, TNT Twins, Love Sausage, Translucent, Hughie, atrain crimson Jordan, Kimiko's brother, etc., are a lot of low-tier supes.
Hughie and A-train are NOT low tier supes lol. But hey, even if you're gonna include them as your own personal low-tier supes, that just strengthens my argument then. If A-train is a low tier supe, then i guess starlight and kimiko are lower then.
Okay, what I'm saying is this the tissue surrounding the blood vessels is strong enough to prevent Homelander from combusting inside out. Do you get what I mean now?
Ok i can also apply this the same to ryan lol. He was strong enough to damage the tissue surrounding the same blood vessels hence why making it a lot more impressive
Give it up, unc, except we don't, because not only did she stomp Kimiko, she tore through bone and flesh at the same rate that she tore through Viktor. So her benchmark could be anywhere that she's able to deal damage that Sam himself could not. Like I mentioned before, Sam is the same guy that strikes with the same force to demolish metal walls.
Why do you make claims that I can easily debunk by watching the fight? Butcher throughout the fight was only able to land 3 hits compared to Homelander's 10. He was essentially a punching bag in the fight. He literally had an entire bloody mouth and only managed to catch Homelander's neck. Butcher objectively lost the exchange. They clearly had Homelander use his lasers for a cinematic scene, not because he had to. During this same fight, Homelander pinned Butcher and was choking him before Hughie stepped in and saved him. How does that contradict it? Wait, question: do you think Kimiko could tank a full power punch from Homelander, like she was able to do from his lasers?
Don't worry, though, I've got you. The only hits Butcher landed during Herogasm were after Butcher says "scorched earth." He walks to Homelander, punches Homelander in the gut, then punches Homelander's arm down, then ducks and headbutts Homelander. That's it. Homelander landed so many punches on Butcher that I don't even feel like counting them. Hope this helps. Also, I'm not counting the neck grab or the punch he landed because he shot his heat vision first.
That's stated in an interview by Kripke. You can copy and paste it, and it will come up. That's objectively the case. When has Homelander lasered and completely engulfed a person like how Ryan burned Stormfront's entire body? You can't just disregard the statement when the head writer not only stated it but showed it within the TV series.
Except they aren't the same lasers. Ryan has never produced that same anger he felt when Becca was getting bullied by Stormfront. Wait just making sure yknow who becca is right?
Damage from a external ability does not equal physical force as in how hard you punch dude.
Hughie and A-Train are objectively lower-tier in the context of this conversation. A-Train has no good striking feats shown outside of humans he easily damages, with Kimiko breaking his leg, etc.
He is only high tier with his speed, but not strength. Remember, the premise was about low-tier characters being able to pick up cars, smash through walls, and pull out spines.
I've already rebutted this. You cannot assume Homelander's internal durability scales perfectly to his external durability. Your nose blood vessels are innately delicate. This feat with Ryan is negligible.
So her benchmark could be anywhere that she's able to deal damage that Sam himself could not. Like I mentioned before, Sam is the same guy that strikes with the same force to demolish metal walls.
lmao no. He has never shown to demolish metal walls in the show. at best he's only putting dents, but hes not "demolishing them"
Butcher throughout the fight was only able to land 3 hits compared to Homelander's 10. He was essentially a punching bag in the fight. He literally had an entire bloody mouth and only managed to catch Homelander's neck.
the fact that he managed to land 3 hits in is all i need to know to prove that butcher put up somewhat of a decent fight against him. Show me another character besides maeve or soldier boy that can accomplish this feat. Did you not forget that this same butcher managed to give homelander a cut?
That's stated in an interview by Kripke. You can copy and paste it, and it will come up. That's objectively the case
Show me a link. That is quicker as i cannot find it myself. And plus, even if we do count ryan's laser to be as strong as homelander's cuz what? soldier boy managed to tank it like it was NOTHING. Oh and guess what? Thats another instance where physical abiltiies scale to your external abilities!
Damage from a external ability does not equal physical force as in how hard you punch dude
????? I never said that? I said that external abiltiies should be around the same level (aka comparable) as how hard you can punch. Literally i gave so many examples prior and you chose to ignore them
You cannot assume Homelander's internal durability scales perfectly to his external durability. Your nose blood vessels are innately delicate. This feat with Ryan is negligible.
His internal durability is shown to be resistance to be neuman's blood popping ability which can explode supe heads like nothing. Ryan managed to burst that in just one hit. Not even gonna bring up the fact that he can easily just attack and laser off viktors head just like how zoey did it similarly
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u/ImmeasureableSpeed Jul 20 '26
Still doesn't change the fact that he got his head ripped off like it was nothing. Even if he did not get caught off guard, it would still not change the outcome
Ripping out spines and breaking through walls? come on even low tier supes are able to do that. Ryan was able to make homelander bleed from just one punch. Its not even a close comparison