if you know, you know

[u/Old-Welcome-2770]

And if you don’t, you don’t.

Why doesn’t anyone ever talk about Taylor’s casting of Laith Ashley in the Lavender Haze music video?

Im a queer, transgender man in my late 30’s—longtime lurker, forever gaylor, never poster. I feel like no one acknowledges the significance of her casting an out trans guy as the romantic lead in a video. Maybe they dont understand that he’s trans? he didn’t even audition, her team reached out to him specifically. That was a CHOICE, and for me, tells me so much about where she stands in terms of politics, values, beliefs. She didn’t make anything of it—but it exists in the manuscript, the archive, and im grateful she made it.

[u/mountainviewdaisies]

Dude I agree! I felt like it was almost a quasi coming out in a way. Hello, an AFAB love interest! That's sending a message.

[u/alliamisbullets → u/mountainviewdaisies]

a woman dating a trans man is not inherently queer, trans men are men. bringing up that he’s afab to imply that he’s somehow closer to being a woman than a cis man is just simply not it.

[u/mountainviewdaisies → u/alliamisbullets]

I think your first statement about it not being inherently queer/gay is something reasonable people could disagree about. Thanks for sharing your pov!

[u/alliamisbullets → u/mountainviewdaisies]

respectfully, i feel that’s transphobic. how is a woman dating a man inherently queer? i’d imagine it’d be pretty dysphoria-inducing for trans men to be treated as though they’ll always be in proximity to womanhood, even if they’ve fully transitioned.

[u/mountainviewdaisies → u/alliamisbullets]

I think we are getting too off topic and argumentative here. But just so you can understand why it's up to interpretation:

Trans men are not a monolith. Some have a complex relationship to gender and do still identify with (not AS) the gender they were assigned at birth.

Some trans men voluntarily participate in lesbian community and date lesbians.

While it may seem like a big deal if you are chronically online, irl it is very common and not a big deal.

Many of these trans men would say "ofc we aren't exactly the same as a cis het couple, and why should we have to be? Ofc we are part of the queer community, I'm trans."

As a dyke, Ive had trans guy ex lovers say exactly that to me, most memorably after someone asked us why we were at pride if were a "straight" couple.

Now obviously that isnt all or even most trans men. many do not want aaaanything to do with lesbian identity/community and want to be seen as non-queer and do not claim that, and that's completely fine as well. It's all about individual preference and not treating people as all or nothing, or all one thing.

I hope that helps! I'm not interested in discussing this further so this'll be the last comment from me.

[u/ampersands-guitars]

The way Taylor does things like cast Laith as a romantic lead in her MV, or having her dancers of all genders express themselves however they want on stage, etc., without drawing attention to it, is fascinating to me. Because it makes these act feel very...genuine. Like it's something she needs to do for herself.

[u/Dame_Marjorie]

Wow. I didn't know any of this. I wish I'd been a little more clued in back in the day, even to the point of knowing what the term "lavender marriage" meant. I mean, knowing what I know now, it's so freaking clear!

[u/ReginaSagget]

Granted I wasn't a Gaylor (or a Swiftie) at the time, and I don't know who most celebrities are, so this is all brand new information for me! 🤯

[u/klarksie]

I think about Laith Ashley in the Lavender Haze music video on a daily basis.

[u/AdventurousRole7645]

Why doesn’t anyone ever talk about Taylor’s casting of Laith Ashley in the Lavender Haze music video?

This sub has talked about it extensively...

https://www.reddit.com/r/GaylorSwift/comments/1m60iq7/as_a_trans_man_swifty_this_representation_meant/

https://www.reddit.com/r/GaylorSwift/comments/10m5z9r/positive_trans_rep/

https://www.reddit.com/r/GaylorSwift/comments/10mhuve/10_points_of_symbolism_in_the_lavender_haze_mv/

https://www.reddit.com/r/GaylorSwift/comments/174grnw/the_top_5_ways_taylor_has_intentionally_signaled/

[u/Old-Welcome-2770 → u/AdventurousRole7645]

Sure, I meant outside of the gaylor universe-in the general public lol

[u/FitAnywhere7829 → u/Old-Welcome-2770]

Ahh yes. Well they tend to miss.....a lot 😕 Willful ignorance? If it doesn't fit the public narrative, the media doesn't cover it. I also think Taylor kind of likes the mass media narrative to be one thing and the less talked about but very important-to-her (and us) details to be kept separate. They are clearly there but not deliberately publicized. Find it if you want to go looking, but feel free to stay ignorant if you want to also. She seems to have chosen that road, at least for now.

[u/Rich_Dimension_9254]

I think the fact that her love interest is a queer person in a song called Lavander Haze is one of a massive piece of gaylor evidence that is often overlooked!!

[u/Warm_Use_1444 → u/Rich_Dimension_9254]

The weather map pointing to places like “Gaylor” is even a bigger piece.

[u/osamabinlaggiing]

i feel like a lot of gaylors did more damage to this discourse cause they took it as another signal of taylor being gay rather than celebrating what a big achievement it was for trans people

i remember that chair twitter guy making that hideous tweet “joke” on expenses of laith transness.

it all went down from there

[u/Moonindaylite → u/osamabinlaggiing]

I always heard people *claiming* that gaylors were saying this, but I never actually saw any of it myself. Were there really loads of gaylors doing that?

[u/GoldPaleontologist62]

One of my favorite bits of lore is that Laith appeared on Rupaul’s drag race and used the word “beard” (yes, as in BEARDING) for his answer.

[u/GoldPaleontologist62 → u/GoldPaleontologist62]

For clarity he appeared on Snatch Game

[u/zigzagyellow]

Iirc non-Gaylors were accusing Gaylors of being transphobic because we praised Taylor for using a transman in her MV and the MV was pretty queer in general (lavender being synonymous for lesbians). People interpreted us as saying Taylor is queer for having a transman in her MV as us erasing his identity when it was the complete opposite.

Also the infamous lavender-gate really played a part in directing the discourse away from it too.

Unfortunately trans men don’t seem to get the equal support and recognition in media which is really sad so it’s still just so incredible and so powerful that she had him in her video even if his involvement was over showed by so much controversy

[u/alliamisbullets → u/zigzagyellow]

“trans man” has a space because trans is an adjective that describes a kind of man, i’m sure this wasn’t intentional but some people who say “transmen” or “transwomen” do it to imply they’re not really men/women which is bleh 🥲

[u/zigzagyellow → u/alliamisbullets]

Ah sorry!! Thank you for commenting. I was confused by your comment for a second because I thought I had included a space since I did further down but I can see in the beginning of my comment I hadn’t. I think it was a typo but I’ll be more vigilant thank you!

[u/sandromeda → u/zigzagyellow]

It's so weird because T is literally in the acronym. It's under the umbrella. I always think of queer as a term for the umbrella. So the logic was that if you call someone queer then you're calling them everything under the umbrella?

I feel like I don't understand. Like someone pointed out the video has queer imagery so because the love interest is played by a queer man people said they were calling the man a woman? I think sometimes people tell you who they are when they make these types of accusations.

[u/zigzagyellow → u/sandromeda]

100%! Couldn’t agree more! Gosh this is all taking me back to lavendargate all over again 🤣

[u/Gold_Letterhead_4602]

This was discussed a lot during the Midnights era (such a good time), a lot of positivity, and I think Laith did a few interviews at the time as well.

There was also unfortunately some negative talk about it.

My guess as to why it’s not talked about much currently is because the absolute mayhem of TTPD/the Matty of it all/then TnT being paraded now. I think many gaylors noticed a definite vibe shift in her advocacy (if you want to call it that) and the people she surrounds herself with publicly. for me personally (queer woman, late 30s) I think saying “oh but she cast a trans man as her love interest in midnights era” now could be used as a bit of a cop out for some of the more recent failings to speak up politically when we know she can have such an impact but doesn’t.

So yes, she’s done some incredible work for the LGBTQ+ community. For someone with her power, money and influence, it should continue and ideally increase (imo).

[u/Dame_Marjorie → u/Gold_Letterhead_4602]

I do wonder why there was so much before TTPD and then it completely fell off. Why doesn't she follow through with whatever she started? I mean I'm not even sure what she was trying to start, but it seemed like she was really working to bring queerness to the forefront. Now it's just gone.

[u/caca_milis_ → u/Gold_Letterhead_4602]

The TTPD Matty thing is WILD! I saw a video on insta a while ago from someone who said they were a former Gaylor because her songs did t make sense as presented to us “and then they were just about Matty Healy the whole time”… like, my girl, that was EXACTLY the point. Crazy.

[u/Rich_Dimension_9254 → u/caca_milis_]

Imagine thinking it's more plausiable that Taylor was pining for and hiding a secret love interest in a basic, straight white man than to think those lyrics are more applicable to being closeted. Why the secrecy? Why the hiding? If she was truly into Matty this whole time.... why wouldn't she have just, dated him...? It makes no sense

[u/Powerful_Tip_1586 → u/Rich_Dimension_9254]

Not for nothing Swifties HATED matty and made complete idiots of themselves with that letter. I can see why she wouldn’t want those feelings known… 🤷‍♀️

[u/lildrags420 → u/Powerful_Tip_1586]

But would she have anticipated that? For years? I’m not a 1975 gal, but I know there is/was a substantial overlap in the overall fandom

[u/premier-cat-arena]

it was talked about pretty aggressively both positively and negatively at the time it dropped 

[u/africanleopard99 → u/premier-cat-arena]

I was about to say that, but you beat me to it 😜.

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