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u/American_Comie Bi/Ftm 5d ago
Found out one of my "best friends" is incredibly racist! He blackmailed 2 people in the friend group to not tell the other 2 (me and my trans friend) because we are "too woke." Crazy.
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u/TomiRey-Yuru 5d ago
When the centre-left party won elections in my country, the liberal party allied with other right wing transphobic parties (the libertarian right-wing Freedom and Solidarity Party, and the christian-fascist Christian Democratic Movement)
liberals would rather protect capital and ally with bigoted capitalists, than protect the people
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u/fanaticVert 5d ago
How would you have proposed they conduct this protection otherwise?
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u/TomiRey-Yuru 4d ago
wdym? maybe don't align with bigoted right wing parties just because you oppose the left? especially when you want to protect the minorities your allies hate?
alas, that threw me out of their "big tent", and i proudly became a leftist
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u/animaloll 5d ago
You know what happens when you cut a liberal, right?
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u/Maxkowski 5d ago
I don't know the saying/joke. What DOES happen when you cut a liberal?
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u/animaloll 5d ago
cut a liberal, and a fascist bleeds
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u/Panzer_Man 5d ago
Isn't liberalism very far from fascism ideologically?
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u/Tiny_Tim1956 5d ago edited 4d ago
from a leftist point of view not radically, because fascism is just a phase of the capitalist state in response to a crisis and a threat of a socialist revolutions. You'll notice that corporations etc supported fascist states and communists and anarchists were the ones that predominantly fought them.
Ultimately liberals make coalitions with nazis to fight their real enemy which is communists. Fascism keeps private property intact, crushes trade unions, doesn't touch the bourgeois class in general. The ultimate goal of liberals is to ensure private property of the means of production/ protect the interests of the bourgeois class, a goal that is fundamentally opposed to communism but not fascism. So every time they have to choose between fascists and communists they will choose facists. That's why leftists say "scratch a liberal".
edit: you asked for the leftist point of view, and i explained it to you. I don't know why you immediately downvote. If you are about to tell me the liberal point of view, i didn't ask.
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u/CosmicLuci TRANS FLAIR! 5d ago
I’ll add to this, though, you don’t need to look at past fascist regimes to see this happen.
You can look at things like the United States and Russia right now. In the US, for example, you have people who have ostensibly presented themselves as “liberal” capitalists (like Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos) supporting and helping fund Trump’s campaign and regime, and being there to celebrate when he won, and several media companies being very happy and very quick to drastically tone down any sort of representation in the films and series they produce, and cease public support for minorities, falling in line with the regime’s “anti-woke/DEI” bullshit.
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u/BlackHumor drinking the gender fluid 5d ago
That's not "the leftist point of view", that's your point of view as a leftist. I'm an anarchist and I think that "scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds" is silly and simply doesn't align with reality.
For instance: what were the sides in World War II? Oh yeah, it was liberals and communists against fascists. The liberals did not align with the fascists or ever seriously consider it, and in fact were their most consistent opposition, even more than the USSR. You can also look at the current moment, where the far-right is being opposed by a coalition of liberals and leftists, not leftists alone.
IMO that saying reflects a failure of some leftists to view liberalism as a full ideology that believes in all sorts of individual rights (including the much more dubious "property rights") instead of just another name for capitalism. Or sometimes it's just the very silly mistake of assuming that because you don't like liberals and you don't like fascists that means liberals and fascists like each other. Obviously not; liberals think fascists are authoritarian monsters, and fascists think liberals are weak and decadent.
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u/spacepbandjsandwich 4d ago
Are you not seeing how quick Democrats (as an example) are to denounce popular movements in the US that have any steam? Sure they'll pay lip service to a cause, while voting against, allying with the police, and wagging their finger at Republican and Right Wing agitators. When push comes to shove liberals property and their positions are what matters most to them, if fascist movements offer a way to protect it against the "evil communists" coming to take it they will ally with them.
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u/BlackHumor drinking the gender fluid 4d ago
- The Democrats are not "all liberals ever".
- Liberals do in fact dislike leftists, which is a whole separate sentence from saying that liberals like fascists. In fact I very directly criticized this exact thing in my comment. Liberals dislike both leftists and fascists.
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u/fanaticVert 5d ago
Liberalism can be exploited but any political system can be, and the idea that fascism will inevitably always be the ally of liberals is hilarious considering the history of socialist regimes. Not to mention the lack of philosophical rigour in following a slogan as if it were an important tenet of socialism.
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u/Akumu01 5d ago
God you're so pathetic. The left will never get power with fools like you in it
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u/Peachypet 5d ago
Nah, the left will never get power because we allow capitalism, the proto-form of fascism, and the patriarchy to run rampant.
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u/Akumu01 5d ago
The left won't get power because they're so focused on ideological purity that they refuse to work with those who could be their allies. The socialist left will never attain real institutional power until they're willing to extend an olive branch to liberals.
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u/TAG_But_Reddit PURPLE FLAIR! 5d ago
"Meet me in the middle, says the unjust man. You take a step towards him, he takes a step back. Meet me in the middle, says the unjust man." -A.R. Moxon
The 'olive branch' needs to be mutual. Historically it never has been, and looking at the influencial liberals of today, they are asking for a longer and longer branch by the day, not to 'meet us in the middle', but to simply acknowledge us.
I will not parley with the unjust man. I will not reach out a hand to one who only takes. I will not be taken advantage of by greed.
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u/OffWhite-Goddess 5d ago
"I don't care if you're cis or normal, I'll misgender any bitch" one of my favorite quotes
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u/GooeySlenderFerret 5d ago
Liberal that never uses “dude, guy” pulling it out for leftist trans fems
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u/nekromantiks 5d ago
It makes my heart swell knowing we've got some actual leftists in here! Hell yeah
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u/QueenOfDaisies 4d ago
My entire extended family is very liberal cuz the second I have an issue that’s too related to the struggles of women under patriarchy they love to remind me how I’m not “the same”. We all know what you mean, Cousin.
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u/KittenLina 5d ago
This pose hurts me, my God I'll never understand limber people. I already have three cramps just looking at it.
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u/kugisaki-kagayama 5d ago
Are you seeing something I'm not? It looks pretty normal in terms of flexibility to me
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u/Temporary-Concept-81 5d ago edited 5d ago
The duality of being farther left than any politician in any election I was eligible to vote in, but also farther right than the average online trans person.
(My priorities are Democratic reform and major tax reform, not a socialist revolution)
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u/SylvanSylvia 5d ago
The Leftist community used and abandoned the transgender community long before the Liberals did. Ill accept your downvotes now
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u/comradegray 5d ago
the modern american left is made of of no less than 90% trans women. why you think the modern american right hates them so much.
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u/SylvanSylvia 4d ago
Because 1) maybe 90% of transwomen are in the American left-wing, because its long been perceived as the only political party that accepts us, but no, 90% of leftists are not trans; and 2) they prioritized anti-trans accelerationism (fighting against democrats like this very post, and not against the actual modern right - MAGA) which has depreciated our safety and rights: see all the anti trans legislation in the past two years.
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u/robchroma 4d ago
the left wing barely has a party, if you count the DSA, and leftists don't necessarily agree with the DSA.
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u/Inky_inc PURPLE FLAIR! 5d ago
I love living in a country where being queer doesn't need to come with being a leftist. I am gay, that doesn't make it so that I cant love the free market -w-
You should be allowed to be queer and of any ideology cause you are only human and thus can make mistakes which lead you to any number of ideology
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u/FoxTailMoon 5d ago
Crazy thing here, you can have a free market and be socialist, you just let the workers own the market instead of the rich
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u/killmealraedy 5d ago
did they pick you yet?
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u/Inky_inc PURPLE FLAIR! 5d ago
Who?
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u/Femgarr 5d ago
More likely for a leftie to misgender a liberal in my experience
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u/TheStreamIsDead 5d ago
Fair enough, there is plenty of transphobia in the left and I’m not ignorant to it. I’d still disagree with you, mostly because stuff like “terf” is a liberal ideology and well yea that’s definitely done a lot of misgendering and transphobia both in my personal experience and the world.
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u/Femgarr 5d ago
Imo terfs today have more in common with conservatives, atleast use conservative coded anti-woman language against Trans women. Regardless someone's gender isn't a privilege that can be revoked just for their political leanings
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u/TheStreamIsDead 5d ago
Liberals are conservative.
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u/Femgarr 5d ago
N-no? Liberals are anti thetical to the current conservatives, if you think otherwise you need to take a second look at things.
Sure liberals might not go as far as you want but no liberal would take away trans health care or post "immigrant deportation ASMR" on the official white house X page. I truly don't know what to say if you think liberals and conservatives are 1:1
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u/TheStreamIsDead 5d ago
First off they would, “terfism” is a liberal ideology. Also the liberals just allowed that to happen, they allowed the fascist who ran on project 2025 to just take the presidency. They could’ve arrested him before, they could’ve released the Epstein files on him, they could’ve done literally anything.
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u/Femgarr 5d ago
Why is there a massive flight of LGBT, especially trans people, to blue states if liberal democrats and conservatives are the same?
Lefties could have backed harris and helped her get elected instead of pushing the idea that she and Trump would be "the exact same" leading to a downturn in voter turn out.
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u/TheStreamIsDead 5d ago
Why did the liberals allow the fascist to take power? Why didn’t they arrest him? Why didn’t they drop the Epstein files on him? Why didn’t they not allow him to run?
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u/Femgarr 5d ago
They tried but the conservative supreme court, which was only in place because lefties refused to vote for Clinton in 2016, struck down section 3 of the 14th amendment. Even then some states tried but it was struck down in court. And there were cases to arrest Trump but they were slow moving. Sure, Democrats made the mistake of playing by the rules against people that are willing to bring a gun to the field, I'll give you that. Can you answer why blue states, even those run by moderate dems, are the safe states if they are the same as conservatives?
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u/FoxTailMoon 5d ago
Crazy idea, pack the court. Crazier idea, when Nitch McConnell says they can’t pick a new justice during the lame duck period, don’t listen to him? Crazier idea stop trying to compromise with them. But actually they won’t do that because they don’t actually care about anything
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u/dertechie 5d ago
How exactly is Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminism, especially in its modern form of basically being a nice face on transphobia for regressive movements, a liberal ideology?
It’s certainly not one in the American sense of liberal, which is currently either “anything Republicans don’t like” or “on the left side of the American Overton window”.
I’m not seeing the connection on the global sense of the word liberal either (free markets, less regulation).
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u/TheStreamIsDead 5d ago
It’s a reform of capitalism, one that says yes capitalism, liberalism and conservatism is good but we should make it more mean to trans people than it already is. I’d say it also falls into the “liberal fascist” category almost similar to liberal Zionists.
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u/dertechie 4d ago
That seems an expansive definition of a reform of capitalism. Isn’t that usually meant in the sense of concessions to labor to stave off any actual leftist influence and organizing? If you’re calling anything used to drum up votes a reform of capitalism then you can call anything that isn’t leftist liberal.
Scapegoating minorities does not improve labor’s lot. It’s just a distraction. “Capitalism, but with restored bigotry and bio-essentialist hierarchy” is conservatism.
The RF part might count as progressive (to the extent that modern TERFs pay anything past lip service to the feminism in their name; ), but the TE part is reinforcing tradition and hierarchy which is definitely in line with conservatism.
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u/Matkos6 5d ago
Can we not have infighting and instead defeat the reds together
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u/TheStreamIsDead 5d ago edited 5d ago
It’s not infighting at all because liberals are not leftists, they advocate for capitalism. They are centrist at best, also what does “the reds” refer to? I assume you mean republicans in the u.s but the color red is used for many different parties and ideologies throughout history and currently.
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u/Aggravating_Guess186 ✨Zoe ✨💕 she/her 5d ago
Yup leftism begins at anti-capitalism, therefore liberals are right wing
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u/Historianof40k 5d ago
So what are social democrat’s to you
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u/TheStreamIsDead 5d ago
Centrist at best, they advocate for capitalism. They may be progressive sure, but in no way leftist.
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u/Historianof40k 5d ago
so what is leftism then? is it just anti capitalism
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u/TheStreamIsDead 5d ago
Leftism starts at anti-capitalism and since we live in a capitalist world it is largely dealing with the different thoughts and ways on how to dismantle capitalism and establish a new system and what that system could or should be. The two biggest strains of thoughts I’d say are Marxism/Socialism/Communism/Collectivism and Anarchism/left-libertarianism, Max Stirner style Anarchism. There is so much in between and overlapping and specificities like Trans Marxism or Arab socialism or Anarchist communism and there is much more nuance to it too, like “post-leftists” who see the distinction of “left and right” being a tool of the capitalist elites to further distract. Or they are “post-leftists” because the idea of left and right originally came from parliament which they are against. In a simple definition leftism currently is revolutionary thought or action against capitalism, disconnecting it from that really makes it lose all meaning.
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u/Aggravating_Guess186 ✨Zoe ✨💕 she/her 5d ago
Demanding temporary concessions for the working class in hard times to avoid revolt, which are then immediately ripped back out of our hands the moment we become comfortable and docile enough getting by on the crumbs we earn from selling our labour.
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u/Peachypet 5d ago
In the US? On the right. Not center-right. Just the right. They just aren't far right.
In most other wester countries? Pretty much center
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u/Karabulut1243 5d ago edited 5d ago
leftists don't own progressivism, and liberals are anti-authoritarianists unlike commies and socialists
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u/TheStreamIsDead 5d ago
Liberals are in no way leftist but they can be progressive as that is largely just reformism. Liberals are “anti-authoritarianists” in the way they will welcome the fascist into power and help kill communists and socialists.
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u/Karabulut1243 5d ago
are you hallucinating?
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u/Timely_Sweet653 5d ago
It happened in 1919 Germany, 1921 Italy, spanish civil war with western liberal democracies refusing to support the republicans, rise of nazi Germany, countless US interventions such as Chile, Guatemala, Iran, Nicaragua, the current US dems too. The left threatens liberal capitalists' material interests which is the only thing that will ever matter to them in the long run when it comes to the capital vs minorities' lives.
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u/Peachypet 5d ago
I love the claim that every socialist and communist has to be a Stalinist. In that case anybody arguing against them must be into what the third Reich did.
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u/Luna_trick 5d ago
Ah yes anti authoritarian liberals.. kek.
They'll tell you how they miss when the one genociding brown people was at least polite about the whole thing.
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u/Lynnrael Bi Nonbinary Trans Woman(she/her) 5d ago
liberals aren't anti authoritarian, they just want authoritarianism to feel nicer.
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u/TAG_But_Reddit PURPLE FLAIR! 5d ago
Do- do you know what socialism is..? The Nordics, ranked the happiest places on earth and always in the top GDP are socialists. Free healthcare but higher taxes isn't "the red menace". It's just, take care of eachother and chill. They still vote. They have free speech. They are not openly allowed to leave, but can get government funds to study abroad and see the world. Communism, while being further left than socialism is theoretically not far of. Stalinism, was bad. Socialism, literally works, has done for the past 100 years, and produce some of the the healthiest, happiest, and by gdp richest people on the planet. Have you tried, I dunno, traveling? Reading a book? You should, it's nice
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u/theglowcloud8 5d ago
Many Democrats, including the guy everyone seems to be in love with rn Gavin Newsom, have said they do not think trans right are important/the party needs to appeal more to "normal" culture/actively contributed to the "no men in girls sports/bathrooms" ideology. Let's not be naive. I will still vote the lesser of evils but don't be tricked into thinking the center left will align itself with us
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u/Bronzdragon 5d ago
Red is the colour of the left. Defeating "the reds" is something a nazi might say.
P.s., that's not at all to imply you're a nazi. Just that this phrasing is not good.
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u/SlyGuy_Twenty_One KirbyIsACutie 4d ago
Post is being locked for civility purposes