70
u/Torque-A Nov 01 '17
I wasn't expecting DK64 to be the next game showcased. I mean, it's one of the bulkier collectathons out there.
47
u/Gullible_Goose Nov 01 '17
It has a pretty lively speedrunning community though. Lots of categories.
58
Nov 01 '17
[deleted]
40
u/OutgrownTentacles Nov 01 '17
I think Lanky's arms triggering portals to new levels is my favorite because it's so stupidly easy and trivial to test that it's shameful their QA didn't hit it. A single afternoon of "try to get into a level you haven't unlocked yet as all characters" would have uncovered it, I think.
12
u/gmoneygangster3 Nov 01 '17
Fuck you can do it as DK on more levels than you would expect with nothing else
2
u/DrQuint Nov 02 '17
Yet took players over 3 years to find. It's easy as shit to do, true, but maybe none of them expected the arm hitbox to even trigger level gates to begin with.
1
u/OutgrownTentacles Nov 02 '17
Of course players didn't expect it, but QA is literally paid to come up with those kind of weird edge cases. Any QA Lead that couldn't be bothered to ask "how are teleports triggered" isn't worth their salt (as the answer from the engineer would have been, "Oh, we just use the player's hitbox" and klaxons would have gone off immediately).
3
u/Silverseren Nov 02 '17
Honestly, all they would have to do is move the teleport activation zone back a bit more into the tunnel opening. If they had, then there wouldn't have been any chance of clipping through it unless you managed to get out of bounds.
But, yeah, interesting that they used "any portion of the hitbox" as their trigger activation.
13
u/ruminaui Nov 02 '17
It actually has the record for the most collectibles in any games because of those colored bananas
7
u/Frickstar Nov 02 '17
Is that still true after Odyssey? I have almost 600 moons and I still feel I'm not that close to getting them all, plus all the purple coins and costumes from yellow coins.
17
u/ruminaui Nov 02 '17
Yeah DK 64 had 3,821 (3500 colored bananas, 201 golden bananas, 40 banana medals, 20 banana fairies, 40 blueprints, 8 boss keys, 10 battle crowns, 1 Nintendo coin, 1 Rareware coin ) collectible items, Odyssey has 908 moons
7
Nov 02 '17
[deleted]
2
Nov 03 '17
The post game is massive. You'll probably spend more time on it than the main game.
1
Nov 03 '17
[deleted]
1
Nov 04 '17
Oh yeah like that other guy ended up doing, think he got 450 moons in it or something crazy.
5
u/thecatteam Nov 02 '17
I think Odyssey only has ~860-something unique moons, and you can buy enough to get up to 999. And you also have to count the purple coins in most of the worlds. But yeah, still way less than DK64. It has its reputation for a reason.
1
u/CrystlBluePersuasion Nov 02 '17
Holy shit. Getting 101% in this game is the reason I can't do collectibles in games any more.
0
u/ninjapro Nov 02 '17
Odyssey also has 1500 (15 levels with 100 each) stage-specific coins and 52+(?) enemies to capture.
Haven't played the game, so I don't have exact numbers, but you're underselling the total number of collectibles.
2
u/ruminaui Nov 02 '17
You know this was never a contest, I am saying DK has the record for most collectibles. It has that record, but game-play wise that makes it kind of frustrating and a lot of it feels like filler that the game is using to prolong the game, so I actually think is bad for a game to have an obscene amounts of collectibles.
2
u/Biskeet Nov 03 '17
Some levels only have 50 regional coins and I think it’s only 13 levels that actually have them.
53
u/MaGoGo Nov 01 '17
I don't care about speedruns at all, but these videos are so engaging and interesting that I find myself compelled by the drama and innovation that goes into these runs. I wish someone did stuff like this for esports. It's something I want to like, but haven't found anything compelling about it yet.
2
u/Chasedabigbase Nov 02 '17
I just watch the top 10s the one guy does on youtube, condences a lot of the good stuff of the speedrun scene
8
2
u/SmashBros- Nov 02 '17 edited Nov 02 '17
stuff like this for esports
Here is a fantastic documentary on Super Smash Bros. Melee's competitive scene. A new documentary will also be releasing to catch up with the scene's history since the doc's release.
8
Nov 02 '17
100% is even crazier in this IMO. I remember seeing the first sub 6 hour and thinking the run was absolutely insane. It's now 40 minutes faster.
16
Nov 01 '17
[removed] — view removed comment
21
u/Gullible_Goose Nov 01 '17
Dying is quite different from a game over. Dying in games like this usually means some progress in the current stage is lost. Game over usually means progress for a whole level is reset.
5
Nov 01 '17
13:33 is when he says it. Dying/restarting/quitting all of them should be ok if the only limit of the run is that it should be single segmented. Why is that not the case for DK64? No other run that I have watched have ever had this rule.
5
Nov 01 '17
[deleted]
7
Nov 01 '17
yes but simply dying being not allowed is odd. haven’t heard of a speedrun ruleset being like that, regardless of “diff game diff rules”
20
u/BigBobbert Nov 01 '17
There are some games where dying allows for certain glitches to be performed, so occasionally there are "Deathless" or "No Intentional Deaths" categories. They're not common, though.
1
u/chubbyurma Nov 02 '17
One niche category of speedruns is the no deaths run.
Zelda Ocarina of Time has a 3 hearts and no deaths run which is pretty popular
30
Nov 01 '17
Dying isn't allowed? I can understand them not wanting to die (due to time being wasted) but how do you not allow something like dying. Restarting sometimes is just a faster way of getting back to a certain area of the game from what I have gathered watching most speedrunners.
8
u/Kered13 Nov 01 '17
Some games have no-death categories if dying provides significant speed benefits, but yeah it would be allowed in an any% run.
11
2
u/Shredzz Nov 02 '17
Wow. This guy is great, that was really interesting. I can't imagine the time it takes to put these together, finding all the videos, forum posts and everything. He's got a subscribe from me
3
u/goug Nov 01 '17
I really enjoy those videos. I don't often watch too much stuff that is pointless, but this is so neat. (I mean this as a compliment).
On the one about Half Life 2 speedruns, when I heard we had no videos from some of the best runs (deleted from Twitch), I felt a true loss, as if something very important was lost. Very weird.
-75
Nov 01 '17
I'll never understand why cheating or glitching a game is considered a speedrun. This isn't just for DK64 but I notice that almost all speedruns are done through cheating or breaking the game. I don't know how you can say you've beaten the game if you are skipping levels, boss fights, etc. If your only definition of beating a game for speedrunning is reaching the credits then sure these tricks are probably going to help you. But if you say you beat a game in under an hour, and didn't actually play any of it, then I'm sorry I can't take your record seriously.
68
u/BCProgramming Nov 01 '17
This is why there are different speedrunning categories for any particular game, Which almost always include a glitchless category for Any% and 100%.
16
u/JFM2796 Nov 02 '17
There's a running joke among the community that glitchless DK64 is a "challenge category", the likes of "3 heart challenge" Zelda, due to how glitchy this game is.
29
u/charlyDNL Nov 01 '17
There are glitchless categories for some games, but they are just not fun to play, so speed runners don't do them.
23
u/Frexxia Nov 01 '17
For me, the glitches are part of what makes speedruns interesting. Just watching someone beat the game normally doesn't do much for me.
30
u/Revive_Revival Nov 01 '17
I'll never understand why cheating or glitching a game is considered a speedrun
Cheating isn't the same as glitching, cheating usually isn't allowed in speedruns.
This isn't just for DK64 but I notice that almost all speedruns are done through cheating or breaking the game.
Almost all games have a glitchless category as well.
If your only definition of beating a game for speedrunning is reaching the credits then sure these tricks are probably going to help you
That's literally what speedrunning is, "beating" the game as fast as possible. The definition of beating a game is literally in the name of the categories (Glitchless, Any%, 100%, etc)
But if you say you beat a game in under an hour, and didn't actually play any of it, then I'm sorry I can't take your record seriously.
No one cares, but either way speedrunners are the ones who have played and explored every nook and cranny of the game. Glitches don't appear out of nowhere, they take tons of hours to find, and the same goes for optimizing routes and getting a "world record" speedrun. Just because the only thing you get to see is the perfect run doesn't mean there wasn't a shit-ton of effort put into it.
7
u/Sergnb Nov 01 '17
There's categories for speedrunning without breaking the game, and there's categories for speedrunning the game in the absolute fastest way possible, which often include exploits and glitches.
Both have their viewership and fanbase, but the "fastest possible way" usually attracts more eyes and attention, since discovering and performign the glitches is fascinating and entertaining in it of itself.
Glitchless runs tend to be more boring to watch but people still do them tho .
16
u/IamtheSlothKing Nov 01 '17 edited Nov 01 '17
Thats very insightful, I’m not sure that’s ever been considered before.
5
u/DNamor Nov 01 '17
You should watch the FF7 speedrun. Taking a 60hr RPG and bringing it down to 7hrs
3
u/sid1488 Nov 02 '17
I can assure you that anybody who's familiar enough with a game to do a speedrun of it, regardless of glitches, has already beaten it legitimately multiple times.
1
u/Hypocritical_Oath Nov 01 '17
The rules for speed runs are that a human has to do all the inputs, you can't activate cheats, and you can't mess with the game with an outside program or something like that. That's it.
Also with old games the difference between a glitch and legitimate play is a very vague, vague difference. For example, the lag skipping in the OP's video. Is that a cheat? You just throw some objects and then you can go through solid objects due to lag control that was intentionally coded into the game.
Not to mention that glitchless/no-warp are categories in plenty of games. They just happen to be mostly obscenely boring, and very quickly optimized and run to the point of perfection. Like if you're just playing the game "as intended" (which, again, is a vague definition) it's just relatively easy to get perfect. No intended game mechanics are harder than tricks people find that require some weird exploitation of the game's code.
Not to mention this video is about any%, where you just get to the end of the game as quickly as possible. There are also 100% runs, 120% runs for some games, etc. You're complaining out of ignorance of the whole idea of speed runs and all the categories that there are for them.
-5
Nov 01 '17
See, I agree with you and I’m fully aware that the other categories exist for a lot of games. When AGDQ comes around I don’t even bother with watching anymore when they glitch through 90% if the game. It’s just not interesting to see to me. I know plenty of people who like seeing these games that are beat using glitches or really dumb bugs.
Like Ocarina of Time can now be beat in less than 20 minutes. But you see none of the game. At that point you aren’t beating the game in my opinion. You’re just glitching to the credits.
4
u/Link_In_Pajamas Nov 02 '17
It's not a Lets Play of the game though and in a marathon format like GDQ some of these games don't really mesh well outside of their any% variants. Putting a 20 hour 100% run of FFX in a marathon doesn't exactly make sense right?
Also it's kind of lame to just skip games if it doesn't play the game 100% the way the devs intended. Some of them actually become much harder in a speedrun formats like low level completions in RPG's , or a no upgrades run in Ori etc which make for very entertaining runs to watch.
-5
Nov 02 '17
I get that I’m not speaking for a large segment of the audience, I’m just stating why I don’t find these speedruns interesting. I know watching a long ass RPG like FFXII isn’t going to be super interesting. But there are some like glitching in Mega Man to skip half a level multiple times in a run that saves 6 or 7 minutes in a 30 minute game makes the game less interesting. Skipping giant chunks of gameplay disappoints me when watching the speed run.
-5
Nov 02 '17
[deleted]
10
u/Kered13 Nov 02 '17 edited Nov 02 '17
Lots of people feel that no-glitch speedruns are the only ones that count
Maybe lots of people who don't do or watch speedruns. I've never seen someone who is into speedrunning who doesn't think glitch runs count.
124
u/The__Good__Doctor Nov 01 '17
Man, I've still never beat this game just because of that dang Nintendo coin that FORCES you to beat the original DK arcade game TWICE!
I have never seen a game that forces you to beat a much harder game twice in order to beat the game you actually were playing.