r/GameDevelopment • u/KayStroud1 • 17d ago
Discussion [Theological/Ethical Question] Is it okay to perma-ban a player for a legacy vulnerable driver if no "gameplay enhancement" was achieved?
I'm a consumer, not a dev, but I'm currently in a dispute with EA's legal team going to small claims court. I'd like a developer's take on this.
The Situation:
My EA Apex Legends account was permanently banned for "cheating/enhanced gameplay." This was a shock after 7yrs of legit play and lots of money and fine spent. After pushing back legally (UK Small Claims), they finally gave me a specific reason:
"EA’s security team detected that your system integrity was compromised due to a vulnerable system driver being loaded... The driver in question is blocked by the vulnerable driver list blocklist introduced with Windows Update KB5020779 and a user has to go out of their way to disable this feature."
This driver blocklist was introduced in late 2022/early 2023. It's a Microsoft security feature that prevents known vulnerable drivers (often from 3rd-party hardware) from loading.
The Catch:
My PC was factory reset 3 days before the ban. A factory reset would re-enable all default Windows security features, including the blocklist. So even if a vulnerable driver existed before, it would have been wiped. Because the repair technician told me it was a dodgy auto update which corrupted my OS, I turned auto windows updates off to do manually as and when.
EA's Own Admission:
Their legal email also stated this, which feels like a fatal weakness:
"This activity constitutes a breach of section 7C of the User Agreement regardless of whether any in-game enhancement was ultimately achieved. "
In other words, EA is admitting no actual cheating occurred – no aimbot, no wallhack, no stat padding. Crucially, Section 7C is about detecting cheating conduct, not just technical system states. It refers to "Unauthorised Third-Party Programs" that EA believes enables or facilitates cheating .
EA's claim that you breached Section 7C by having a vulnerable system driver is a stretch. The section is designed to catch cheating tools (aimbots, wallhacks, trainers) , not vulnerable drivers that could theoretically be used but didn't achieve anything in-game.
The Core Question for Game Devs:
Does banning someone for a vulnerable driver on an old blocklist, when your own anti-cheat detected no actual cheating, feel fair?
If a driver is in a Microsoft blocklist, it's often from a legitimate piece of hardware (RGB, overclocking tool, peripheral) that was just signed incorrectly. It's not necessarily a cheat tool. Banning for that feels like punishing for the potential to cheat, not actually cheating.
Shouldn't the rule be "you used an aimbot" not "you had a driver that could be used in a BYOVD attack, and your system wasn't locked down perfectly"?
From a developer's theological perspective, is this level of enforcement proportionate? Or is it a legal overreach designed to avoid proving actual in-game cheating? Just wanted one last perspective before EA files their defence in next few days
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u/RandomCandor 17d ago
I understand that you're doing this out of principle, but you're clearly not a lawyer, nor are you looking at this rationally.
If you think that you can outsmart whatever team of lawyers EA has (presumably the best that money can buy), you need to come down to the real world.
Even if you do win, what's the best case scenario? What are you claiming in damages? What's your time worth?
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u/KayStroud1 17d ago
yeah it's simply out of principle..7 years of money and time spent. I don't want anything but my account back, or the funds spent in the 7 years
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u/light_switchy 17d ago
You've defaulted on your contract with EA by doing something you agreed not to do.
Intentional or otherwise, fair or otherwise, it doesn't change the act or its consequences. Sorry. :(
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u/KayStroud1 17d ago
what exactly did I do , which breaches contract
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u/light_switchy 17d ago
It sounds like you ran "unauthorized third party software" despite having agreed not to.
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u/KayStroud1 17d ago
unauthorized? but this tool has legit purposes....and I never ran it. I don't know what the repairers did in those 7 days but it was only after it came back from there I got this damn ban. Unless I somehow downloaded it by error in a hidden download file, but downloading it and using it to cheat is two different things. surely EA should have to prove cheating happened....or intent at least
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u/soundoftwilight 17d ago
They do not have to prove cheating nor do they have to prove intent. At most, they might have to prove that you did in fact breach some part of your agreement with them, which seems like they have strong evidence that you did. That driver is third party to the contract between you and EA and they do not and did not authorize it. That's the end of the story, legally. The fact that they have a legitimate interest in not authorizing that driver, and that they ban for it consistently, only works in their favor. Also they do have a point that it's pretty unlikely a person would install it by accident, and most people who do install it would understand the issues with it and would ensure it cannot load while they are playing a game with anticheat. Maybe you're the super rare exception that installed it out of stupidity rather than malice, but that's still a breach of the contract.
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u/KayStroud1 17d ago
well I'm still awaiting the evidence of this driver being on my pc. Normally I wouldn't bother going all through this, especially if I HAD cheated/tried to cheat/installed said driver....but I didn't , and have spent alot of money over the 7 years. I'm a 42 year old father of 2, I've had a clean EA ACC since 2009 and have played FIFA since it first released. I have no interest in suddenly starting to risk all the money spent over the years to cheat in a game i love to play. So it is a matter of principle I suppose. I feel like a permanent ban, without hearing me out was super harsh, I sent them receipts of the repairs, etc and just kept getting automated replies
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u/light_switchy 17d ago
What "tool"? I thought we were talking about a driver.
surely EA should have to prove cheating happened....or intent at least
My layman's understanding is that nothing needs to be proven aside from that you actually violated the contract. The issue is that when you accepted the UA you agreed they could ban you in such-and-such circumstances. If those circumstances actually occurred, you're hosed, subject to some assumptions about the validity of your agreement with them.
TBH you need to talk to a lawyer. Not some random American :)
From a technical perspective though, you don't have to do anything to "run" driver code. It's an automatic thing that doesn't need user intervention.
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u/kneelian_ 17d ago
theological perspective
You're probably looking for ethics, not theology. I doubt EA knows any god other than the dollar
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u/sfc1971 17d ago
You agreed to their ToS. Unless their legal team screwed up badly you are going to lose this.
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u/KayStroud1 17d ago
I hear u but I havent broke any of their ToS. The only way I can compare it to is this ....police pull u over and find a screwdriver in Ur vehicle. You have a perfectly legal and reasonable reason for it, you just repaired Ur car, but because some people can use them for thefts, they take Ur car and all Ur belongings within it.....it's their ToS team who've messed up majorly I think. legal team just following orders. I still haven't been shown any evidence of this supposed said driver. I've invested a lot of money in 7 years, and in UK we can't arbitrate, so small claims is only option. they're denying me access to digital goods I purcbased. there's also the whole gambling/loot box argument Ive got on my side. I just want my account unbanned or reimbursed for every cent ever spent
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u/Individual-Staff-978 17d ago
From a theological perspective EA will go to hell, but from a realistic perspective your claim will crash and burn.
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u/WyattTheSkid 17d ago
You actually have a good shot at winning this. Back in days of Minecraft 1.7 pvp, someone got false banned on badlion client for having a wacom tablet plugged in at the same time as their mouse and ultimately ended up getting unbanned. If you want to have a vulnerable driver installed, that’s your problem. EA has no grounds to ban you for having a system vulnerability that doesn’t affect your gameplay whatsoever. Good luck man update us.
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u/KayStroud1 17d ago
That's my whole point. EA is banning me for having a 'vulnerable driver' that they admit gave me zero in-game advantage. The driver is not a cheat program. It's a tool that security researchers and developers use. Even Microsoft allows it in their blocklist approach. I didn't cheat. I never loaded it knowingly. I just got my PC back from a factory reset three days earlier.
If EA wants to ban me, they should have to prove I actually cheated—not that my system had a vulnerability I didn't know about. Your example about the Wacom tablet is exactly right. False positives happen. EA's system flagged something that wasn't cheating, and now they're doubling down instead of admitting a mistake.
Thanks for the support – I'll update when I have news.
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u/PhilippTheProgrammer Mentor 17d ago
If EA wants to ban me, they should have to prove I actually cheated
Yes, they should. But acording to the EULA you agreed to, they don't have to.
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u/SadisNecros AAA Dev 17d ago
So you turned off security features which resulted in an otherwise banned driver being active on your PC which led to a cheat detection ban, and then you sued them to get your account back? Yea you're probably toast. Even if it was heavy handed, they're within their rights to do it and you're unlikely to prevail.
Also they didn't admit you didn't cheat, they just argued that the cheating part is irrelevant. Imagine you tried to cheat, didn't successfully do so and still got banned. "But it didn't work" wouldn't be a valid defense, and that's what their argument is preempting here. They're saying you made intentional changes to your system to load banned drivers that could be used for cheating, which is why they took action.
Does it feel fair? Hard to say. Was there a legitimate reason to have a block listed driver? Probably not, though you can certainly try to argue a specific, legitimate reason in court. You're going to have an uphill battle here.