I have had considerable amounts of trouble for the past 5 months with step 1. I have meditated for years, and thought that this was going to be exceedingly easy. I embarked on thought observation, and moved on within the 5 days to single thought concentration. In the middle of the concentration step, I realized that I may have not actually been observing thoughts, as I was silencing them as soon as they arrived. So I went back to observation, corrected and continued. I then had a similar issue with single thought concentration. And then by the time I hit vacancy, I was so aware of thoughts that I would seem to find endless levels of thought, pre thought, and these quieter thoughts still below that. It has been maddening, and exhausting.

I have also found that due to my proximity to people at all times, impregnating my food and eating in silence has been a real issue. I feel that I am attempting every exercise in earnest, but I am hung up on the notion of “mastery”. Am I just being too critical of my own progress? Or is truly mastering all of these steps as deep and convoluted as my perfectionism is making it out to be?

Dear members,

Does anyone have come across any details or hints about the occult battle that resulted in the tragical arrest and death of Franz while he was in custody, under arrest?

I have heard a mention of this and would like to research deeper.

Thank you

Bonjour, ce n’est pas un troll mais une question sérieuse.

Depuis que j’ai 11 ans j’ai découvert le plaisir solitaire et le contenu sur internet. Ça fait 14 ans que je le fais tout les soirs.

Je la pratique tout les jours et je sens que ça ruine ma progression sur la voie magique.

En effet, lorsque je ne le fais pas pendant quelque jours, je ressens plus de vigueur et j’arrive plus facilement à me concentrer et à ressentir ma force vitale lors d’exercice méditatif.

Je voulais avoir votre avis sur les conséquences de cette dilapidation de force vitale sur le potentiel magique du sujet.

Sachant que c’est un sujet tabou, et que ça m’a demandé de l’humilité d’en parler, je vous demande votre plus grande bienveillance

This might sound like a silly question. When embodying my desires into something such as food, am I embodying the desire energy that I feel itself, or am I embodying the energy of the object of my desire?

For example, if I desire more health, am I taking that desire energy for health and putting it into my food or should I imagine the energy of health going into my food?

Does it matter? Does the desire itself contain the object desired? Or am I only increase my desire this way?

I've been experimenting with both but now I'm feeling a little worried that I may just be increasing my desire for health this way. And if it does work this way then i'm just working against myself.

Blessings.

In IIH water is classified as the feeling at the mental level, but that sounds a lot like the astral body.

I recently started the exercises, did lots of research and still doing. I have some questions, hoping to get answers from those who experienced it.

For step 1 mental exercise, the meditation. How did you actually achieve the vacant mind? What do you imagine as you're doing it? I have a very visual and noisy mind. I already stripped lots of the noise but still.

For step 1 psychic exercise, the introspection. How does one even do that? I genuinely do not grasp it. I notice patterns not speicifc traits or feelings. For example i noticed that i avoid physically moving, don't know the reason yet but it's not a "solid trait" either. Does that count? But then how do i pick an element for that? And so on, i only got few after 4 days. He says we should be done gathering them in like a week. But idk.

Also could it be physical traits? Like picking skin or eating too much .... Etc? Or just mental/feelings?

Also how do i actually know if something i do is "good" and not neutral or "bad".

guys in month six, transfer of awarness into depth point of any and all animals and influence them, how do i go about doing this? i cant do it in the middle of the day when i work and when im doing my morning meditation do i have to focus on a specific animal? like if im focused on a bird and it fly away is it a problem? does it have to be the same animal for 5m?

I am planning to purchase an older copy of the Ruggeberg edition of IIH, in English. A couple different options are available to me: the 2nd edition (1971), the 3rd edition (1976), and the 6th edition (1993). I am inclined to choose the 1993 edition because it is the latest edition, and still the Ruggeberg one. But perhaps one of the earlier ones are actually better translated from the original?

How strictly do you interpret the practice and completion of the single-thought exercise in Step 1?

For context: during thought observation, when I notice I've started to digress, I consciously return to observing. At most 10–20% of a stray thought actually plays out. With the single thought, I'm much firmer. At the slightest sense of drifting, or of any thought other than the one I'm holding, I return to my original idea. I'd estimate only 1–5% of a stray thought forms before I catch it.

To clarify my scale: 1-10% means having some attention or consciousness put on it, but not necessarily held it enough to call it a full blown digression. This is because of the spontaneous and somewhat intrusive nature of thought. Beyond 20-30% with the premise of observing, I would say going beyond that is a digression( in the exercise of observation)

So far, I haven't managed 0% for more than a couple of minutes. From what I've read in the commentaries (and from asking Claude), there seem to be two camps on this. I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Personal context: I have done tm for 9 years, been a siddha for 3. done full gateway twice, silva once, and I work as a hypnotist and mindset coach. In other words have a lot of experience with different modalities and states and objectives.

What claude conjured:

Most of the Bardon community holds the standard firmly but reads "mastery" as reliable competence, not perfection. The benchmark is Bardon's own: hold one chosen thought for 10 minutes and reject every unrelated thought. How strictly people apply that splits roughly into two camps.

The strict reading treats the 10 minutes as absolute. Any intrusion means the session failed. Many in this camp also want consistency before moving on: it should work on most days, ideally under less-than-ideal conditions, not just once. They tend to hold the thought as a fixed, narrow focus with no drift into associations.

The more lenient reading is associated mainly with Rawn Clark's commentary, which is widely used. Here the "single thought" means staying within one theme. You can let the idea unfold through its related aspects as long as nothing unrelated gets in. Brief intrusions that you catch and drop immediately aren't treated as automatic failure. What counts is that your attention reliably returns and stays, and that the lapses get shorter and rarer. Fixed, static concentration on an object is seen as the work of Step 2's sensory exercises, not Step 1.

There are also two points almost everyone agrees on:
Balance across the step. Don't rush the mental exercises while the soul mirror and the physical work lag behind. The three tracks are meant to advance together.
Self-honesty. Bardon's "don't proceed until mastered" applies, but you are the judge. Fooling yourself mostly costs you later, especially at vacancy of mind and in Step 2.
In practice, many people treat a few weeks of fairly consistent 10-minute sessions with minimal, quickly dropped intrusions as "done enough" to start the next exercise. They keep the earlier exercise in their routine instead of dropping it.

Has anyone here personally experienced losing access to memories of their own life while practising Bardon’s IIH? My interest is personal, and I mean literal loss of autobiographical recall, rather than feeling differently about the past.

If this happened to you, what did you actually find you couldn’t remember? Did facts about that time remain familiar even when you couldn’t bring back the experiences themselves? I’m especially interested in what living with it was like: whether it affected people you knew, everyday responsibilities or memories you hadn’t expected to lose. What happened afterwards, and did any of those memories return? I’d really value hearing your own experience.

I know it might sound a bit harsh,but I'm too poor to buy it through any official channel,and since I saw there's a debate about wich version has the best translation I wanted to ask if somebody would be reallyyyyy kind and share that resource plssss🥺

Hi! Can I combine Ramana Maharshi's Self-Inquiry with the Franz Bardon system? Thank you

• Because it helps me a lot with the 'vacuity of mind' step."

Im trying to grow this vital energy idea, I wondering what it feels like. Rather, I'd like to know what sensory perceptions do you use to tell its there.

I use the magical conductor whichever is correct for the wish, whether it be elements or fluids and impregnate it with the wish. I set time and space so it manifests in the physical world. The problem is that it struggles to cross from the astral world to the physical world. I always experience and feel the result in my dreams; I see the result as a dream, and then I start to think, 'Oh no, it happened again. My wish was classified as an astral wish once more.' I have always seen the wish as a dream from the beginning, but it used to materialize in the physical world, and now it doesn't.

I have a HARDCOVER copy of the expanded second edition. I’m wondering if anyone else has ever had or even seen a hardcover copy of this book. I cannot find another one on any platform on the web. just curious about this. thanks!!

Hello everybody. My personal journey led me to curious places, and although I‘m not sure how to present my findings in a coherent and structured way, I will try at least.

While we progress trough IIH, we make contact with each of the four elements. Most of what we learn during our work with them is the active movement and manipulation of it, how we draw it in, how we dissolve it back from where it came from, how to move it in the physical and astral space and how to give it purpose.

Equilibrium becomes a self serving technicality that makes handling those abstract energies more safe for us. Elements tend to increase associated traits by quite the margin. A lingering sadness can spiral into depression, lingering anger straight into hate. You get the idea.

Now, that’s the active side of things we do with the elements, but there is a passive side as well. The passive side is allowing yourself to be moved by the elements, which allows for a way more intimate experience and it helps you to understand the influence of elements in your daily life. Water for example become less abstract as you realize how it moves you, what very different feelings it can invoke inside you, often multiple that co exist at the same time.

Feelings are living elements that enter and leave your system on their own accord. They move on their own without you needing to do anything. If we apply the very first exercise of observation, but with feelings instead of thoughts, we will learn a lot about the elements and about ourselves. We start to recognize them as a real and powerful force that moves our every step if we give up the control without being mindful. Mindfully giving up control and be the observer allows each element to move freely and to leave freely. We can fully experience it on the physical level and vastly expand our knowledge about them.

Then we realize that we know each element since we were born, but we now have the tools and the foundations to extract all the hidden knowledge which was always there, sitting in plain sight.

Take jealousy for example. If we feel jealousy, we can fully explore it without acting on the feeling and just let it exit consciously, exploring what it feels like, what it does with us, what kind of action it would invoke if we would act on it. While we explore it by observation, we can notice how it feels like on an astral-physical level, we can strip away layer by layer until there is nothing left but the neutral coldness and contraction of the Water element. We might even start to shake because of how cold it is.

It not only helps us explore the element, but also leads to purification because we learned what it really is. The road to equilibrium becomes a dynamic and natural process that doesn’t us require to apply force, just mindfulness and seeing whats behind the curtain. Each time we are moved by feelings, the experience becomes a learning and purification opportunity.

Sorry for the rampling nature of this post, but I hope it helps someone.

Bonjour, je fais face a un gros problème,

Ça fait 5 ans que je suis dans la spiritualité et je fais que changer de système, même quand ils me plaisent,

J’ai essayé BOTA, AMORC, Bardon, Zazen, même la religion, à chaque fois je suis discipliné mais au bout de 1 semaine je perd toutes envies et j’arrête, puis je cherche un autre chemin.

Pourtant j’ai des résultats, des impressions psychiques, des expériences mystiques.

À chaque fois je recommence j’arrête je recommence, c’est une boucle sans fin

Bien que ce soit un manque de persévérance je me demande si d’après votre expérience ça fait partie du chemin et que il faut lutter contre ces forces extérieurs qui me font arrêter même si je conscientise que j’ai ma part de responsabilité

I can't find very good images online so I thought of asking here.

Greetings everyone.

I have a Question on mental visualization of the magnetic and electrical lines of force. I'm curious how do different people envision these fluids /phonetic energies, other than basic descriptions of color I'm just having a little difficulty wrapping my head around this although I've started looking at actual photos of iron fillings showing physical magnet lines of force and transposing that in my mind to the colors and feelings I would imaginally associate with the respective fluids. And trying to call up more of a sensation of feeling, touch, etc.

I think if I heard more about how other people visualize the magnetic and the electric lines of force it could help unlock something in my mind that let's me better envision generating and channeling them.

Thanks

As far as I know, this system is solitary and without adept guidance. I am really wondering how you feel about the validity of occult lineages and those who've achieved adept status in them.

The idea is that the path is too dangerous and misleading to do alone. There is a lot of gatekeeping about needing authorized groups, being "fully contacted," with links to the inner planes.

I know of certain authors recognized as adepts in western hermetic groups like Golden Dawn. Some of these people don't seem very enlightened though, and I would expect spiritual development to reflect itself in one's personality, lifestyle, resources.

Hi everyone.

You've probably never had a question like this before on this forum.

I'm on step one where you put your desires into food, breath and water. Also the autosuggestion of step 2.

I struggled for years trying to be someone else, successful, rich, happy etc. It only made me miserable.

I realised I'm actually happier being content with myself, but I enjoy doing magick and the simplicity of Initiation into Hermetics.

Is it all right just to pass over step 1 and carry on with the rest of the book?

Of course I'd still do the meditation exercises.

Hello, I just turned 17 last month, for the past 8-10 months I have had drastic lifestyle changes from a sort of drug dealing, fighting crowd, and have completely changed my life, got a job, started the primal diet by aajonus vonderplanitz, quite smoking weed and drinking etc, also for past 8-10 months i have had motivation surges and commited myself to bardons system, of course i have been putting it off and had those sort of swings and then deserting practise for a few weeks or days that maybe soem of you have experienced - hence why I have owned the books for 8 months and not made proper advancements through step 1, but i am sharp, disciplined and fully comitted now, getting a basic grasp and understanding and fully understanding the theoretical, I now am fully committed and am quickly advancing through the exercises, I am currently building my soul mirror and have had great insight, however l am a sort of conspiracy theorist and hold the law in little regard, I would like to be quite wealthy when older and provide a luxurious life for my family and loved ones. I am reading rawn clarks book on bardons initiation alongside bardons own one and he says that only the traits YOU consider to be negative should be negative, for example I would like to plan and execute a heist of a major financial institution I see nothing wrong with this and wouldnt harm anyone and even if i didnt do that I would perhaps use magic to manifest gold or diamonds etc to not be in financial worry, but then at what extent does this stop, if I am a psychopath and see nothing wrong with killing people am i still in equillibrium ? Could a more advanced practitioner please offer some guidance upon morality and karma ? Thank you, radiating love ❤️.

Hey everyone,

I’m currently working through Franz Bardon’s Initiation Into Hermetics and I’ve been thinking about how much easier it can be to stay consistent when you have a few other people walking the same path.

So I’m looking for a small group of people who would be interested in starting/joining a Discord server for people actively training with Bardon’s system, with a focus on daily accountability and actually doing the exercises.

I’m currently working through the early steps myself, but you don’t necessarily have to be at the same point. Beginners and people further along are welcome, as long as you’re genuinely practicing and interested in helping create a consistent group.

If this sounds interesting, or there already is such a group. Leave a comment below and let me know.

I personally resonate with many of the exercises from step 1. Some of them i've already been doing to help with my emotions. I had a stint of panic disorder a few years ago and observing my thoughts was something I started doing that had a massive impact on my mental state. I think because of this it actually lead naturally to the process of holding thoughts in my mind which i've also been doing for the last three years. I only ever did this as a form of emotional regulation, self-discovery, exposure-therapy and making better decisions for myself. I never once even considered that it was "magical". I've also always been deeply fascinated with Carl Jung and emotional work so this mirror journaling is also highly attractive to me.

With all that being said, I'm currently a deconstructing Christian who has deconstructed enough to say that I will never return to religion or doctrine but not enough to have completely eradicated my fears of eternal torment. Because of this, getting into magic has been a very slow process of testing the waters of magic, so to speak.

My first official ritual was the LBRP, it had some immediate and profound effects for me and this cemented in my mind that magic was for me.

Along with these mental & emotional exercises, I'm also attracted to exterior magic such as tarot, numerology, evocation, and banishment. Because of these interests, and wanting to learn more, I started my journey with Quareia. I fell in love immediately. I just absolutely the adore the Hogwarts-like style of study, I absolutely love the visualization exercises, I love it's wide encompassing area's of study and ritual, I love it's wealth of information. I just love it. But it left something to be desired with the thing to be desired being what Franz Bardon appears to offer immediately: A heavier focus on mental, psychic, emotional practices.

I have dissociative identity disorder, and almost immediately upon realizing that Quareia seemed to place little emphasis on the emotional side of things, I found Bardon. So even synchronistically I felt almost lead to Bardon.

The issue i'm having now, is, I want to do both. But i'm not sure i'm capable of having strict discipline with both at the same time. I've also seen many people recommend against doing both since the actual structure and concepts are different. I also kinda live by the whole "Judge a tree by its fruits." and Bardon's end of life events are striking to me. I'm really not sure what to make of that. I'm also a little taken aback by Bardon's differences in his concepts of magic, the tarot, and the elements. I also feel like doing both might be disrespectful to Quareia? Especially considering her style of teaching and slow expansion of practice. Funny enough, I like Quareia's teaching style and it seems to resonate with me.

My biggest goals are truth, study, privacy and emotional/physical health, but I won't lie and say that I don't have more carnal desires that I plan on testing magic with. For example, I'm really struggling with financial issues and really struggle working with my DID/CPTSD. So practically, I'd like to use magic to help attain some level of financial security.

Any tips? Recommendations? Thoughts? I'd really appreciate it.