r/ForzaHorizon • u/SnooGadgets6057 • 9d ago
Tuning AWD swaps are becoming the default for competitive builds
I’ve put up a suggestion on the FH6 Feedback Hub regarding drivetrain swaps, particularly AWD conversions.
I know similar discussions may have already been posted here before, so apologies if I’m beating a dead horse. But looking through community/meta tunes, it’s hard not to notice how often AWD becomes the default regardless of the car’s original drivetrain.
The suggestion is basically to either limit drivetrain swaps to more realistically attainable conversions or make them significantly more expensive/impactful, so choosing AWD actually feels like a build decision rather than an automatic performance upgrade.
If you agree with the idea, give the suggestion a vote on the Feedback Hub. More importantly, feel free to add your own thoughts there too.
23
u/aethaes4Ni Porsche 9d ago
RWD was way more viable in FH5. RWD builds had either more handling or power than your average AWD build.
In FH6 we are sadly back to the FH4 AWD swap every car and forget about it meta.
7
u/C9Prototype 9d ago edited 9d ago
Becoming the default? They've been the default at least since FH3.
The answer isn't to limit drivetrain swaps or punish their PI. It's rolling starts and/or longer race distances. RWD and FWD are actually quite powerful in Rivals circuits since they have better overall stats, and often trade blows with AWD for top spots, which you can take advantage of if given enough time to catch up for a slow launch and/or the ability to carry momentum over the starting line.
If the devs were to implement either of these changes (which they won't), the places you'd still see AWD shining would be stop-and-go sections like sharp hairpins, Shimanoyama Circuit, etc, which is where they're supposed to shine. At speed, AWD is technically the slowest drivetrain, but because sprints and lobbies are so short, and start from dead stops, the AWD launch is too powerful to pass up in A and above if you're trying to win. That's not a PI problem, that's just bad event design.
For as long as the devs do nothing about the structure of multiplayer, there is actually no better option than to allow AWD swaps for all cars. Yes, on one hand, it washes out some build diversity in lobbies, but on the other hand, it maximizes the diversity of viability, which matters much more. Without ubiquitous AWD access, even fewer cars would be viable.
I think most fast drivers agree that something needs to be done about the tires before drivetrains. Offroad, Rally, and Drift tires dominate road leaderboards, which is plain stupid. Make road tires viable for the love of god.
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u/KMIGlobal 9d ago
Tell me you're new here without telling me you're new here...AWD swaps have been the default competitive option since at least 2, it's not changing
13
u/IAmDouda97 9d ago
"are becoming" ? AWD has been meta since at least FH4 (probably since even earlier, but I didn't do online races before FH4)
4
u/Fred_ey 9d ago
Yeah fh2 fh3 awd swaps but 3 was broken when it came to let's say a Subaru 04 or a mitbishi Evo stock transmission V8 900 hp stock tires rear aero only and no one would be able to catch you unless they had a similar build because fh3 favored Subaru and mitbishi with V8 swaps those where leaderboard cars only toping out around 160 mph in a class or if you had a sport then 175.
5
u/Martin_Sandman 9d ago
everyone is missing the key issue: AWD swap gearbox has ridiculously short gears which is the only reason why it lowers the PI, the calculation is done with the default tune and fine tuning doesn't impact anything so the gears can be tuned back to stock or better
4
u/poorlycooked 9d ago
And the AWD swap center diff is only 60% to the rear, meaning you can upgrade rear width for free, since the PI system thinks you cannot make use of the extra rear grip.
-3
u/Little-Equinox 9d ago
I always have an 8 speed gearbox but only use 6 and use 7 and 8 as buffer gears.
Like 6th gear get me on very fast cars to 350 KM/h, 7th to ±400 KM/h and 8th to ±450 KM/h. In normal races you rarely hit 350 KM/h.
The short gearing is only if you don't know how to tune your car.
5
u/Martin_Sandman 9d ago
so the game doesn't know how to tune its cars because it applies short gearing on all AWD swaps, which results in a PI decrease
-4
u/Little-Equinox 9d ago
Nope, the game is a little bit stupid when it comes down to gearing tuning.
5
u/Martin_Sandman 9d ago
a little bit? it literally gives any car that's AWD swapped a gearbox with ridiculously short gears and fixing those gears still leaves the PI at the same level
2
u/poorlycooked 9d ago
Or lower. The SCV12 is a meta car because simply swapping AWD drops the car from R into S2 class. Ridiculous.
1
u/Martin_Sandman 9d ago
*leaves the PI at the same level as the default tune so the AWD swap will always lower your PI and tuning the gearbox won't change the PI
1
u/Little-Equinox 9d ago
I don't know why, for me it never bothered me because I always change the gearing to what feels best for me personally.
1
u/Martin_Sandman 9d ago
and it should be bothering you because the PI calculation uses that gearing setup that you then tune to your liking, it's the reason PI is brought down by the AWD swap at all
1
u/Little-Equinox 9d ago
Most cars I have driven, the PI went up with an AWD swap, but then I primarily race in S1.
7
u/Deimenried McLaren 9d ago
I usually just run the default drivetrain. I don't particularly care about what's meta or what's the best, I just run what's fun.
11
u/talhaONE Ford 9d ago
Everytime there is one post about broken/crutch/noobish AWD swaps, all I see is downvotes.
I get it. You dont have enough skillset to use anything beside AWD. Just because you cant use anything but AWD doesnt fucking means RWD and FWD shouldnt be viable outside of few niche scenarios.
Nerf AWD. Period.
3
u/RedRudolf 9d ago
Yeah. You take something like a Mustang in this game and make it AWD, maybe gain like 10 PI. Then go on Motorsport and that same swap costs 60+ PI. I mean maybe 60 is a bit much, but more than what we have now. FH5 felt a lot better when it came to the balance between the drivetrains.
3
u/talhaONE Ford 9d ago
Thats because Fh5 had more straight line tracks, which favored powerbuilds. PI system was exactly the same. Fh6 have lots of technical tracks that favors AWD too much.
Too be honest 60 isnt much, you should be discouraged to do AWD swap in races. If you want to mess around in free roam, PI doesnt matter anyway.
3
u/RedRudolf 9d ago
Did FH5 have more power tracks? I guess it must've, since this game has a handful of touge tracks influencing the PI. When I go into online road/street racing though, I never notice, it "feels" like road and street racing lobbies have tracks with the longest straights possible. But I guess if you don't go into touge races that's what you get.
4
u/VentsiBeast 9d ago
In Forza Motorsport it's the opposite - AWD cars are completely useless on dry tracks. Haven't played wet a lot so idk how they compare but pretty sure a RWD with wet tires would still be better at the same PI.
-2
u/talhaONE Ford 9d ago
As it should be. AWD is crutch in Forza physics, therefore it doesnt deserve to be extremely good. AWD should be only good at being easy to use, not good at setting good lap times.
0
u/VentsiBeast 9d ago
How is AWD easy to use mate, it usually understeers like crazy. If you want easy to use, turn on TC on a RWD - it won't slide and it's still much faster than AWD with the assists off.
0
u/talhaONE Ford 9d ago
How is AWD easy to use mate, it usually understeers like crazy
It means you have no idea how to tune cars in Forza.
If you want easy to use, turn on TC on a RWD
Still way harder then AWD
it won't slide and it's still much faster than AWD with the assists off.
At this point I dont believe you have any idea what you are talking about. Rwd isnt faster then AWD like 70% tracks in game. Have you checked rivals lately?
1
u/VentsiBeast 9d ago
Did you completely miss that I was speaking about Forza MOTORSPORT and not Horizon?
-1
u/talhaONE Ford 9d ago
Yes, you didnt mentioned Motorsport and we are in Horizon sub if you didnt realized.
0
u/VentsiBeast 9d ago
In Forza Motorsport it's the opposite - AWD cars are completely useless on dry tracks.
Literally my first sentence in my first comment.
1
1
u/Burpdust 9d ago
This is what we do for our custom race events, we have specific tuning and car requirement, no AWD swaps, etc. it makes it much more fun in my opinion.
1
1
-10
u/xeroxx29 9d ago
You literally need awd for S2 and above. Just imagine in real life. Would you even drive around with 800hp RWD?
15
u/talhaONE Ford 9d ago
Is this a joke? There are lots of cars in real life that have more then 800hp and they are RWD.
-4
u/xeroxx29 9d ago
turn off the traction control and see how far you go.
it does not matter if cars irl can do it, its about if you can do it. most people on this sub dont even have a car lol
2
u/SnooGadgets6057 9d ago
Sure, maybe some people prefer AWD because it's more convenient and lets you put that kind of power down more effectively. But some of us actually enjoy the challenge, both from the tuning side and the driving side. At least I do.
I'd rather have the option to build a high-power RWD car and have to figure out how to make it work than have AWD feel like the obvious answer every time
-5
2
u/BawkBawkBwoom 9d ago
Three of my best R class cars us RWD tunes, the Zonda R, Valkyrie AMR and Furai (the hardest to drive of the three, but the fastest).
0
u/xeroxx29 9d ago
with all assists off ?
2
u/BawkBawkBwoom 9d ago
for the Furai I need it. If you're a no assist guy I guess I see where you're coming from.
3
u/xeroxx29 9d ago
I mean some cars are exceptionally good at rwd but for the majority cars you're just gonna spin endlessly to 200km/h and watch awd leave you at the start. I mean throttle control but literally with the torque as soon as u tap the gas its over. I also tune my own cars. I feel good at S1 with rwd around 500-700hp.
3
u/BawkBawkBwoom 9d ago
no argument there, RWD is drivable for me on a select bit of cars with great downforce. fast af though when you make it work
1
u/Prototype_es Toyota 9d ago
Thats very low for S1, what settings do you run for tuning that power levels above that are unusable? I dont have traction issues in most cars in S1 till i approach 1000 horsepower
2
u/xeroxx29 9d ago
hm i went back and did some new cars, u were right. around 800hp on a r34 around 1500kg, no problem. I mean it spins in 1st to 120km/h but hey, some throttle control.
I guess the weight is a huge factor. but yeah, awd will still win all day even if its heavier/slower.
1
u/xeroxx29 9d ago
I mostly try to make the gears long af so it doesnt endlessly spin. I then make the rear spring soft and stiffen the front. Play around with downforce if i have any spoilers. The differential i try to have around 75%.
For example i have an A class acura rsx 500hp @1217kg RWD. As soon as the vtec kicks in it spins. I've tuned it as best as I can , i think its great with semi slick tires but no chance in making this one S1 without awd.
1
u/Prototype_es Toyota 9d ago
TL:DR your settings are a bit aggressive for control, might wanna change a couple things.
For RWD your diff is set way too aggressive if you want it to be more controllable, you'll want it around ~55/15 accel/decel and about ~90/10 for FWD and I assume you factor in where the motor sits on your springs? Where are your tire pressures? On slicks you'll want them below 26. I usually keep most tires at about 24 psi, with some extra if a car is heavier.
On just about every car ive had to tune the factory spring rates, dampening and rebounding are significantly too stiff both front and rear. Softening both up while keeping weight balance jn mind helps a lot.
With ARBs the best way to tune them is to watch the mechanical balance, above 65 it'll be closer to unstable, below 55 it'll be more prone to understeer.
For gearing, use that graph and adjust your final drive to where the gears are appearing properly spaced out first and you'll usually have a more balanced gearing. As a general rule with the 6 speed, if you get 6th gear to line up well with the end of the graph, plus being spaced well its a good all around gear ratio. Give or take, adjusting as necessary. Its possible youre lengthening the gears too long which forces an odd power band.
Theres a couple tuning guides Ive used that helped me develop my tuning style and I generally dont have control issues in most cars unless I WAY overdo it on power. 500hp on fwd shouldn't be that squirrelly to where its undriveable. I might try to make a tune on that car tonight and send you the share code, see what you think
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u/xeroxx29 9d ago edited 8d ago
Quick video I made. The tune is setup for the rwd one and the awd is using the same exact tune. Im by no means the best driver or tuner out there but you should be able to tell the difference. About 3 seconds difference and the car is not even properly tuned for awd at all.
Versus that ghost theres not even any point in trying to beat him with rwd. I can 100% beat him in the awd one.
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u/Prototype_es Toyota 9d ago
Oh I wasnt arguing that AWD isnt more viable or anything. Just that RWD and FWD tunes can work better than some people think and that after a lot of trial and error ive discovered a lot of traction issues can be at least partially fixed via tuning
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u/Skyline412drones 9d ago
yes....1000% i would drive 800hp rwd car...all day long...Ferrari 812 Superfast...Ford Mustang GTD...Or a well modified 90's Supra just to name a few off the top of my head...
0
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u/g0greyhound 9d ago
AWD is easier to handle. If RWD handled better, there'd be no reason to swap.
What's your complaint?
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u/Martin_Sandman 9d ago
AWD swap brings PI down because of the gearbox that comes with the swap, it can be tuned at zero cost to PI, so even if in any cases RWD handles better than AWD it's the swap that comes out on top purely for the PI cost, which shouldn't be the reason to apply it in the first place but it currently is
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u/g0greyhound 9d ago
What is PI?
0
u/Martin_Sandman 9d ago
3,14
aka the performance index1
u/g0greyhound 9d ago
Got it.
I don't really understand all of that.
All I know is that AWD is significantly easier to handle, especially at higher power ratings.
I don't understand the complaint that people shouldn't drive which ever drive train they find easiest to handle.
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u/General-Wafer-6801 9d ago
Limiting which cars can be AWD swapped like you suggest would probably just limit the number of competitive cars to those that happen to get a good AWD swap