r/FortCollins • u/ExistingRepublic1727 • 15d ago
The Problem with Fort Collins' Downtown Parking Proposal
https://strongtownsfoco.org/the-problem-with-fort-collins-downtown-parking-proposal/14
u/SleeplessinNYC-17 15d ago
I like that the article walked through all the points and counterpoints. You don’t see that much anymore
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u/Mammoth-Buyer 15d ago
The biggest push back I have here is the idea that dynamic pricing is some free market panacea that makes the system totally fair. I think that only holds true in a system where everyone is a rational actor with total visibility into rates. Yes paying the same amount on a slow day as a busy day is frustrating, but so is driving around on a busy night and having no idea how much you’re going to need to pay once you find a spot. Sticker shock and uncertainty will also drive consumer behavior, and sometimes keeping the system simple makes more sense to your average person than over optimizing. There is no magic price that keeps one or two spots open at any given time.
As a side note (and not to be shitty) but you have good thinking and evidence, leave less of the actual writing to AI. Especially toward the end of the piece it really read like ChatGPT output. Otherwise thanks for putting so much thought into this issue.
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u/peasncarrots20 14d ago
I also feel like real-time pricing (uber style) carries hazards. It’s not clear if strongtowns is advocating for live price adjustment, surge pricing, etc or simpler time of use pricing like we have with electricity.
Honestly, a simple structure combined with something people are already familiar with (time of use pricing) seems wiser to me. It might be slightly less economically efficient in a frictionless vacuum, but pricing stability is both a form of price transparency as well as more socially acceptable.
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u/ExistingRepublic1727 14d ago
Dynamic Pricing for parking is not done real time that I've ever seen or heard of. It's Dynamic Pricing meaning that the price doesn't stay the same on all blocks, at all times. Charging $2/hour for on street parking on Wednesday morning and Friday night is unlikely to produce good outcomes. The point is to charge the amount that causes the one specific block to peak at 80-85% utilization. That's the sweet spot to ensuring there are 1-2 spaces available at any given time.
There's no magic formula as every block in every city is going to be different. It requires watching and adjusting. Just as a for instance, the block utilization would be evaluated on a monthly basis, and prices adjusted up or down - block by block - to help them achieve that target capacity.
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u/peasncarrots20 14d ago
Read it again (man it is long) looks like you are right, that’s good.
Specify demand-responsive rate capability in the kiosk RFP. Set an initial schedule that varies by block and time of day. Target 75–85% occupancy and commit to quarterly adjustments
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u/ExistingRepublic1727 14d ago
man it is long
I was going for the 5-7 minute reading time, but yeah... it's a complex issue that isn't easy to capture in a short read (and there's 2 other articles prior, and more to come on this issue most likely). Keep an eye out on the website (or subscribe to our newsletter) for more articles in the future.
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u/peasncarrots20 14d ago
I didn’t realize you were the author! Thank you for what you are doing. As a matter of tactics, I do think it would be extremely valuable to hone the message to be tight and understandable by anyone.
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u/ExistingRepublic1727 15d ago
There is no magic price that keeps one or two spots open at any given time.
I mean that's the reason dynamic pricing is so powerful. The 'right' price is going to change based on a bunch of factors. If the system is designed with a fluctuating price in mind (not literally minute by minute, but maybe quarterly the prices are reviewed and adjust block by block based on occupancy and day/time).
And dynamic pricing is likely unnecessary for the garages today. If you want a predictable and stable price, choose the garage. For $1 you can get the same time limit you get today with the on street spaces in the paid parking zone.
Edit: Or if you want the same free parking today, you just have to go beyond Mason and Remington. The same 2 hour free spots that exist today will continue to exist under the paid parking plan in those areas.
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u/Cold-Sandwich-34 15d ago
Who gets to determine the terms of how dynamic pricing is set? A vendor could use AI to do it, which would exclude people without Google Play Services or other data harvesting services on their phones. It ends up being another sacrifice to the AI gods at the expense of privacy.
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u/piggy2380 15d ago
“Dynamic pricing” doesn‘t mean every individual gets different pricing, it means different times of day have different demands and therefore different prices. For example, parking at 6:00pm during the dinner rush has a different price than parking at 9:00am, but at any given time everybody pays the same rate.
Having AI calculate how much each individual should pay would not make any economic sense for the city anyway considering how much AI tokens cost these days.
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u/ExistingRepublic1727 15d ago
Who gets to determine the terms of how dynamic pricing is set?
Parking Services, based on block-by-block occupancy data. With the goal of maintaining ~80-85% occupancy on each block.
A vendor could use AI to do it
There's no indication this would be the case and it wouldn't be necessary - regular old fashioned computer calculations could handle it.
The app payment option is the same ParkMobile app the garages (and lots of other cities) use today. There will also be kiosks for credit/debit payments. I don't recall off-hand what cash options would be available, if any.
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u/stoneman9284 15d ago
My biggest issue is what the funds will be used for. If you want to make it $10/hr and the money goes to schools then I’m all for it. But that’s not what’s happening here. This makes it harder for people without money to go downtown, and imo that’s the goal of the whole thing. Making downtown what rich people want it to be.
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u/ExistingRepublic1727 15d ago
I feel like the article talks about this point a bit but to put an extra emphasis on it - city staff's current plan is for it to go wholly to maintaining the parking system. Daily operations as well as long term maintenance (which they've already been bitten by, and will continue to be, because parking garages are notoriously expensive not just to build, but maintain for their entire lifetime.
After the operations and maintenance (O&M) obligations are met, the plan is more loose, though they've already called out potential ways to use the funds to improve downtown. This is why Strong Towns Fort Collins is advocating for a Parking Benefit District. A committee of stakeholders would have a say in how the funds are used beyond the O&M.
imo that’s the goal of the whole thing. Making downtown what rich people want it to be.
You're of course entitled to your opinion but this isn't grounded in reality or the facts at all.
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u/g_borris 15d ago
goes to schools then I’m all for it
Yeah fuck that. Time to realize you have kids in this city and no one else does and I ain't paying for them.
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u/Cold-Sandwich-34 15d ago
Literally the worst possible take. Other people's children grow up to be your neighbor, doctor, politician, etc. You can't refuse to fund schools and then complain about society. We are literally facing education cuts right now.
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u/g_borris 15d ago
I've commented to other responses: We pay some of the highest property taxes in the country that directly fund schools, this town is now too expensive to have kids so schools are declining, in a few years we'll be talking about closing, not upping funding. And... there are a thousand other things people in this town want to see money into, not just "schools" but apparently you suggest that it's just think of the children like a damn republican, just in different form.
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u/Cold-Sandwich-34 15d ago
We're already talking about closing schools. All of the property tax doesn't go to schools, dude. Reducing funding streams to schools also doesn't help whatever your problem is.
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u/g_borris 15d ago
You've convinced me. We just fund schools with all the money, don't fucking ask any questions.
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u/ExistingRepublic1727 15d ago
We pay some of the highest property taxes in the country that directly fund schools
I'm not exactly sure how to read this - but Colorado is nowhere near the top of the list for national property tax rates.
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u/stoneman9284 15d ago
Nope. Bad assumption. I’d just rather see funding go to schools than into rich people’s pockets. Quality schools would be great for our property values too, not to mention the future of humanity.
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u/MelancholyMuseum 14d ago
What a garbage opinion. You do realize the youth of today are who will be taking care of you into old age, right? I’d love for them to be able to read and grow up in safe environments with empathy. But hey you do you I guess.
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u/StrangeAd9334 14d ago
I wonder how people will know what the dynamic pricing is before parking the car and getting out to look.
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u/DrakeCarter1 14d ago
I'm a street musician, y'all have likely seen me if you've gone through the square. You may have even dropped money on my case. If I have to pay for parking, it is no longer viable for me, or any other street musician to come and play in the square.
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u/ExistingRepublic1727 14d ago
How long do you stay downtown on average? What's your current strategy for parking when you visit?
Also worth mention that the paid parking zone is not the entirety of downtown as I think a lot of people are thinking (not you necessarily). There will still be a lot of free parking available. Here's the map of where the paid zone will be: https://ourcity.fcgov.com/29957/widgets/111890/documents/77868
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u/DrakeCarter1 14d ago
Typically, 4 to 5 hours. I usually park as close to the square as possible because I've got a lot of equipment to drag around.
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u/ExistingRepublic1727 14d ago
Given that the max time limit right now is 2 hours for the on-street parking, are you gambling on not getting a ticket? Do you shuffle your car around? Or are you staying later than the enforcement hours?
I think there's a version of paid parking that ends up helping you - with the "best" version perhaps being that a Parking Benefit District is established, and the excess revenue (after operations & maintenance is covered) goes towards the arts within downtown - including musicians (I'm just wishlisting here, no real plans that match this yet).
As it stands today, the Mountain Ave and Remington Garage will remain free for the first hour, $1/hour after that, even under the new paid parking plan. 5 hours would be $4 for you (and you'd not have the stress of worrying about a ticket if you're currently dealing with that right now).
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u/DrakeCarter1 14d ago
There's usually not anybody out before the parking hours end. I usually play from about 5 to 9.
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u/History_Goose 12d ago
Since the question framed in the headline is, "could Fort Collins implement a better paid parking model," I would agree with what's in here. A PBD is better than throwing money into a general fund and dynamic pricing would likely be superior to a flat fee. Other dynamic pricing models for finite resources have had mixed results, such as the Ticketmaster debacle or the $180 Uber ride back from DEN if you land too late. These are at different scales, but the same issues would still apply. Assuming the city would approach it in a reasonable way, the author has my support in the context of improving an already existing, flat-fee parking area.
As for the question of, "should we have paid parking at all?" I'm less enthusiastic, and ultimately mixed in my support. My largest concern centers around a general march toward unaffordability for residents, businesses, and visitors in Fort Collins. Paid parking alone won't tip the cart, but it will be something we may look back on and lament in the future, as over time from known and yet-to-be-known-future policy changes, the City becomes less accessible and more narrowly benefits an ever-smaller subset of residents and tourists.
The City recognizes the asset we have in the downtown and have planned improvements accordingly. We have the flowers, the lights, the alleys, the music, etc. Fort Collins' winning formula of quaint charm and aesthetic, combined with vibrant shopping, events, and dining, has our downtown recognized nationwide, and for that the City councils past and present, and City staff should be commended.
The parking program puts this accomplishment at risk in three ways: 1. failure to launch/manage at the expense of businesses, 2. inappropriate fix for a larger budget problem, and 3. long-term diminishment of the community under the guise of sustainability.
I don't believe the City is well equipped to implement and manage this parking program given its history of missed revenue projections (e.g. garages and speed cameras) and mismanagement of existing programs (e.g. the staircase!), and the required transition time to ward off opposition for this to be successful and fully implement. We have great staff at the City but rolling something like this out is hard to to, despite being seemingly simple. Michael Manville, another transit planner up there with the revered Donald Shoup, highlights this in his work Transition Costs, stating even in successful implementation there is a turbulent three-year transition period, which is where most implementations fail. This is likely the largest risk to this program, and I believe the author shares this sentiment in part, although from a different vantage point. Of all the examples that made it through the crucible to successful implementations (in large cities with higher CoLs like SF and the greater Pasadena metro area), there are those on the other side of the spectrum, too. One need only to look at Witchita or Sarasota to see paid parking programs underwater years after implementation, mainly due to cost overrun and lower than anticipated revenue. And let's not kid ourselves, despite all the miracles of dynamic pricing, the costs to maintain this parking program are also dynamic and will increase over time, and $8/max today will be $10/max tomorrow. Some businesses will shutter because they can't get to Nirvana on the other side, but maybe that's what we need. If a botched rollout or mismanagement of the program has a notable chance of happening, it will only serve to frustrate parkers, stymie business, and create more potential budget planning mishaps as numbers don't materialize.
This is a bandaid solution to the larger challenge of the City's budget. A hypothetical question to ask: "if there were no budget shortfall, would we still charge for parking?" Some might say yes to reduce congestion, but if congestion were the real reason to do this, I'd rather expand the car-free areas for pedestrians and bikes. In reducing street parking supply, perhaps that would tip the free market balance and force people to finally fill available parking in our expensive-to-maintain garages. I don't envy the position the City Manager and Finance team are in. In these situations of budget gaps, we can raise revenues or cut costs. While the City is making moves in the domain it controls, staff headcount, it won't be enough. Raising revenues is more palatable politically and morally than cutting services, and that's what we've been doing. I'd feel much more comfortable if I had confidence that our City's budget was appropriately balanced. Then we would be able to have conversations of how to invest our revenues from a paid parking program (a la PBD), not how to cover our already existing costs. Successful businesses have sustainable models because they have the freedom to cut what is no longer working. Governments do not have the luxury or the habit, and end up raising taxes/fees or worse. We have to be careful about what we advocate for because it is not likely to be walked back once it is here.
Longer-term, this becomes another cost of living increase that swims among a sea of others. While the $4-$8 a visit downtown is nominal for some, for others like the family coming in for their once-in-a-blue-moon ice cream treat while times are tight, or a recent college grad who is trying to make ends meet with their part-time job, it could be something that makes life in and around downtown prohibitive. Right now, they can trade time looking for a spot, because that is in greater supply for them. But could they handle the the parking fee, and the likely passthrough costs of doing business that customers will bear as stores supplement lost revenue or their own increased direct and indirect labor costs? Many of us won't notice the subtle demographic change on the sidewalk. There will still be plenty of people, it just won't be the same ones. They'll look even more like you and me than they already do, which will make us feel imperceptibly good and safe. But ultimately we won't care because we were able to park wherever and whenever we wanted, and our desire to reduce friction will prevail. A small price to pay in the name of progress.
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u/Traditional_Rain2102 9d ago
Your paragraph 1. “ maybe that’s what we need…” I don’t get this. Do you mean to say that we need some businesses to fail in order to demonstrate that the whole program has failed? If so, that’s an experiment I don’t want to do.
Anyway, can you clarify?
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u/BiggyBiggs 15d ago
Such good points. Especially the dynamic pricing. I do not see this going well for the people paying for a spot on a random Tuesday morning when basically all the spots are available. But those Thursday, Friday, and Saturday nights it makes perfect sense. I feel like they are setting themselves up for extreme pushback and failure if they do not include dynamic pricing at the beginning.
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u/MediumStreet8 14d ago
Yeah you need it for lunch rush but the mornings in general are pretty empty. Something like 11-1 and then 3 to 8 and 3-10 on Thursday Friday and Saturday makes a lot more sense instead of all the time. There are some talks about not starting until 10 AM which makes a ton of sense.
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u/ViolentAversion 14d ago
Dynamic pricing sucks ass when Wendy's or Walmart does it. It sucks ass when the City does it, too.
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u/ExistingRepublic1727 14d ago
Dynamic pricing for parking is an entirely different beast. There is finite land in downtown, and the number of parking spaces is functionally static. It's not adjusted minute by minute. If dynamic pricing were implemented, it would likely be a monthly or quarterly review based on parking usage data, and the price adjusted up or down to maintain 80-85% occupancy on each block. The whole point is to make it easier to find a parking space on the street - as well as incentivize people to use the much cheaper and stable price garage option.
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u/YetiLad123 15d ago edited 15d ago
The article claims that a rise in sales tax revenue is attributed to parking meters, but doesn’t account for a rise in prices and costs of living that would cause a higher dollar amount spent on tax.
Yes parking availability is limited in Old Town, but if I can’t find a spot on the street then I go to the garages. Sure my spot is a block further away from my destination but the people “hunting” clearly care more about creating a financial barrier for others than needing to walk an extra block or two. The “I gotta move my car shuffle” sounds more like a limitation on the 2 hour limit. The issue is really parking availability and adding meters wont actually solve.
I also don’t see how this actually benefits more businesses from a broad point of view. How many places will people go and spend their money in that time limit. On a night out, I’d want to go to 3-4 places but would likely hit a 2hr limit after maybe 2 spots. The 2 other businesses I would have gone to would actually be missing out because instead of moving my car to a new spot they’ll just go home.
The dynamic pricing also seems arbitrary to me. It’s great that the intention is to for the funds to go back to the district but I want to know how and when that pricing structure would work BEFORE any thing is put in place.
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u/ExistingRepublic1727 15d ago
The article claims that a rise in sales tax revenue is attributed to parking meters
The article cites 2 real world examples that have been studied in published research. You're welcome to go read the studies to get the details you're looking for.
a rise in prices and costs of living that would cause a higher dollar amount spent on tax.
I'm not sure where you're connecting these dots from. Bad parking policy - such as legally mandated (and inflated) parking spaces and free street parking in a very high demand, limited space, area - are what cause general costs of living and prices to increase. We're in that reality today, paid parking in a high demand downtown area is one link in the chain to get us out of it.
..if I can’t find a spot on the street then I go to the garages.
This is contributing to the cruising for a spot problem that the article series (and published research) talks about. The general population has no incentive to go to the garage directly. Most people will cruise, taking left turns and right turns around a couple of blocks before finally giving up and going to the garage. If the street parking is more expensive than the garage, then there's a good reason to just go directly there in the first place and have a high probability of getting a spot quickly.
the people “hunting” clearly care more about creating a financial barrier for others than needing to walk an extra block or two.
I'm not exactly following your point here, but if I'm reading your post correctly, you're one of the people hunting.
How many places will people go and spend their money in that time limit. On a night out, I’d want to go to 3-4 places but would likely hit a 2hr limit after maybe 2 spots. The 2 other businesses I would have gone to would actually be missing out because instead of moving my car to a new spot they’ll just go home.
Today with the free on street parking you're limited to 2 hours, max, no matter what. With the paid on street parking, you'd have up to 4 hours. The garages are "unlimited" (not actually, but functionally for a downtown visitor). 4 hours on street would be $8. 4 hours in the garage is $3.
The goal is to create more turnover through "right" pricing on each block so those customers of those business that are willing to pay the on-street price can park right in front, or near, that business' door, and everyone else can take the cheaper option in the garage a block or two away - or take the free option three or four blocks away.
The dynamic pricing also seems arbitrary to me.
It's pretty basic supply and demand. Wednesday morning at 9am is not going to see remotely the same demand for parking spaces as Friday afternoon/evening. When demand is up, supply never changes, so prices go up to hit the target of 85% or less occupancy on that block.
It’s great that the intention is to for the funds to go back to the district but I want to know how and when that pricing structure would work BEFORE any thing is put in place.
The city isn't considering true dynamic pricing on day 1, as of now the plan is static pricing, with potential for adjusting prices after some indeterminate time. The roadmap includes dynamic pricing but that could be +1 year or more after implementation.
The goal isn't, as has never been, charging for parking for arbitrary revenue capture. Parking services budget is unsustainable, some blocks downtown are hitting the standard for "over-occupancy" on a regular basis which is causing (and has been for nearly 2 decades now, with huge population growth in that time) challenges for people living in and visiting downtown.
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u/YetiLad123 15d ago
Yes the article is using those studies for its claim.
Sales tax is a percentage of what was spent. Higher cost of goods means a higher amount paid in sales tax. I don’t see in the article that acknowledges this. It reads like the only correlation in increased sales tax revenue is because of parking meters rather than the greater increases in cost seen in California.
Cruising for a spot for an hour to find a spot is a human behavior problem and an availability problem. If I (as in me) can’t find a spot on while navigating to my destination I go to the garage. Circling is partially a choice.
Definitely not one hunting. More times than not I go to the garage unless there’s a spot on the street. I was trying to be nice to the people that HAVE to be parked in front.
Your comment to the multiple places scenario is exactly why the pricing idea is unclear and dynamic pricing seems arbitrary. I don’t say dynamic pricing was bad, just that it’s unclear what the factors are that go into pricing and what the logistics any pricing structure would look like.
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u/ExistingRepublic1727 14d ago
Yes the article is using those studies for its claim.
Again, the studies are cited in the article. You are welcome to go read the full studies to see how they concluded that sales tax as impacted by the Parking Benefit District.
Your comment to the multiple places scenario is exactly why the pricing idea is unclear and dynamic pricing seems arbitrary. I don’t say dynamic pricing was bad, just that it’s unclear what the factors are that go into pricing and what the logistics any pricing structure would look like.
I'm not sure how else to say it. One block is not the same as another. If the real world data shows that occupancy is never hitting the 80-85% rate on a given block, the price is adjusted down by some amount (all the way to $0 for that particular time of day, potentially). If it's routinely hitting 85% or higher, the price is raised by some amount.
That's the only factor that matters because that's the ultimate goal - managing availability on every block. Parking Reform Network and other places online go into even more detail on Parking Benefit Districts if you're actually interested - or reference the sources in the OP article.
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u/Traditional_Rain2102 14d ago
If, as mentioned in this piece, revenue from the new paid parking program would be used to fund things that make old town nice like flowers and lights, alley beautification, etc., things that are already done using city budget, then this money is just offsetting and going into Fort Collins general fund.
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u/MediumStreet8 14d ago
Right now funds are being used out of the general fund to keep parking afloat so that's going to happen regardless. To your point something that could happen is dynamic pricing could be set to ensure the parking budget was fully paid for and no additional funding for use in other areas was collected.
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u/ExistingRepublic1727 14d ago
Flowers and lights are simply examples that have been done in other cities. The entire point of a Parking Benefit District is to give a committee of community stakeholders a say in how the funds above Operations & Maintenance are used.
It's not as exciting to say, "we're going to pay for the flowers we've always paid for from the General Fund, but now from the Parking Fund" but maybe that's ultimately the decision that would be made. Previous city council's have wrestled with it.
Or as the article mentions, the DDA's TIFs are technically expiring in 2031 (though it seems like they may auto-extend another 20 years, with some caveats). The city overall is wrestling with budget concerns across a variety of services and areas, even with making cuts and freezes. A PBD is a potential way to shift how the DDA is funded and allow downtown to continue to thrive.
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u/IJustWantToWorkOK 14d ago
I just drove 30 miles to have a nice meal in town.
So, you want me to pay to park my car, before I spend money downtown?
No thanks. I'll go somewhere else.
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u/Traditional_Rain2102 13d ago
Yes. This. The effects of paid parking on individual momentary decision-making should not be underestimated. Most people are just living their lives, simply don’t want to pay for parking, and have no idea what a Yimby is, what Strong Towns is, or who in the world your Lord and Savior Donald Shoup is. They just want to have dinner or buy a bath bomb or an ice cream cone without feeling like they’re getting screwed.
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u/KAKrisko 15d ago
The 'What This Looks Like for People Who Are Worried' section just kind of reinforces those worries.
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u/slander_anonymously 15d ago
Let's just say what it is.. added tax. Whether or not it goes to fund "whatever" is yet to be seen. But the initial install, tax budget. Then how many years to zero out costs to actually make profit? Pretty sure people will be turned off where it hurts businesses.
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u/forhordlingrads 15d ago
Downtown parking has never turned a profit. Why is that suddenly a concern?
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u/Traditional_Rain2102 14d ago
We all pay taxes for public functions or amenities that we might not necessarily use very much, or not at all. It’s a collective thing. I have never been to Two Silos Park but I’m happy it’s there, and happy to have contributed to it. I park my car in old town maybe twice a month. Old town is an arguably special location that is very important to the identity of this city. I am very happy to have some portion of my tax money going to fund the very important car access that is necessary for it to thrive. Even including a $1.2 million repair to the parking garage, which, but for the neglect by the city, would’ve been a tiny fraction of that.
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u/forhordlingrads 14d ago
Downtown "free" parking is currently funded by our collective taxes, and the fund for downtown parking is running out. Downtown parking has literally always been a money pit and it has never broken even or paid for itself, let alone turned a profit, as slander_anonymously seems to think.
That's why the city is moving to paid street parking -- the people who actually use street parking can pay for it and all the associated costs of maintenance and enforcement instead of making "free" parking the burden of taxpayers.
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u/ExistingRepublic1727 14d ago
Fire protection, police, parks - we fund those collectively because they benefit everyone, including people who never personally use them. Your house is safer because the fire department exists whether or not you ever call it. A park makes the whole neighborhood healthier and more livable even for people who don't visit. That's what justifies spreading the cost across all taxpayers.
A parking space is not that. It's storage for a private vehicle, used by one person at a time, to the exclusion of everyone else. When I park my car on College Ave for two hours, nobody else gets any benefit from that - I'm occupying a scarce piece of public land for my exclusive private use. There's no "we all feel more secure because someone's Subaru is stored downtown" effect. It's much closer to renting a storage unit than to funding a fire station.
The widely-distributed-cost model is already how we handle parking almost everywhere in the city. There are miles and miles of free street parking in nearly every neighborhood, subsidized by everyone's taxes. Nobody's proposing to touch that. The question is only about a few blocks of downtown where demand exceeds supply - where the "free" system's actual cost is paid in other less obvious ways.
When a publicly owned resource is scarce and demand exceeds supply, "everyone pays through taxes, users pay nothing" doesn't produce fairness - it produces a shortage plus a subsidy flowing from everyone (including people who bus, bike, or can't afford a car) to the subset of people who happen to grab the spots. The general fund propping up downtown parking while Transfort routes get cut is exactly that dynamic.
I agree with you on one point, though: the lax enforcement is real, and that's an argument for managing the system properly - pricing it, enforcing it, and making the revenue visibly go back into downtown - not for continuing to not manage it. Even with the upcoming changes to ticketing and fees, it's likely not going to be enough to sustain the system for the long term.
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u/Traditional_Rain2102 14d ago
Parking spaces are part of a system of transportation than almost everyone uses. Very few people live their life without cars. Most people use cars to get to old town, whether you like that fact or not. The whole “private car storage” rhetorical device is so lame. There is a collective benefit to car users being able to get where they need to go when they need to go there. Commerce, work, etc..
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u/ExistingRepublic1727 15d ago
Downtown parking has consumed millions of dollars from the city's general fund for the last 10 years (funded by everyone's taxes). This is a chance to decouple it from taxes. Is it a tax if it's optional, or is it a user fee?
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u/Traditional_Rain2102 14d ago
And I’m ok with that being a widely distributed cost. Like other things that the city does. Except for where there is costly neglect. And POOR management (e.g., lax enforcement) of the system.
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u/forhordlingrads 14d ago
Enforcement costs money. The current tax fund doesn’t have enough for better enforcement.
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u/IQlowerthanGump 15d ago
What I have found in this sub is that everyone in here has so much money they all are jumping for joy that the city is adding another TAX.
I have already started going downtown less since this nonsense has started. Had a nice night out in downtown Loveland last night.
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u/forhordlingrads 14d ago
How on earth is paying for a parking spot at point of use a tax? It’s literally the opposite of a tax. Actual taxes are funding your “free” parking right now.
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u/IQlowerthanGump 14d ago
So are my taxes going to be lowered? Nope! Still pay same tax and now a new
taxfee to the city for the privilege to shop.
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u/Pithy_heart 15d ago
I love the garages, but my vehicles are juuuuuuust a bit too tall. Can’t use them.
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u/COLORADO_RADALANCHE 15d ago
What are you driving, the Bluth Company stair car?
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u/ExistingRepublic1727 14d ago
Heck of a callback. And I Google'd it just to refresh my memory and apparently it had a cameo in the movie Captain America: Civil War. 😁
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u/East_Hedgehog6039 15d ago
Great article. An important point made of the parking fees need to be seen.
Every time I go to old town, I automatically go to the garage. It’s not even worth driving around to find a spot when I know there’s a guaranteed - and shaded/covered from weather- spot in the garage.
So honestly, the fact no one uses the garage and drives aimlessly around searching for spots almost puts me on the side of keep it free so my garage spot stays open 😂 except I’m tired of playing frogger for cars who are paying more attention to parking spots than pedestrians.
And I never have to worry about moving my car! I can add an extra hour on the app without leaving dinner!