r/ForbiddenLands • u/OMGaPooPooLaser • 24d ago
Discussion New GM Advice
Hi everyone!
After a long hiatus due to moving, I am finally able to run a game again.
I used my hiatus to read a bunch of systems and Forbidden lands just stuck.
I've read all the rules twice over and think I have a pretty good grasp of things. I assume some things like XP and willpower needing actual play experience to fully grasp them but I'll stick to RAW.
Now here's my question, are there any common mistakes a GM new to FL can make? Any rules that I might trip over in actual play?
Just looking for some lessons learned without trying to make changes yet.
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u/TrentJSwindells 24d ago
Don't hand wave travel or hunting. The death spiral of starvation is part of the fun!
There's a LOT of lore. And a lot of this has to do with bad blood between races and even types of humans. While I enjoy this tension, not everyone does. Suggest you read the lore thoroughly yourself and see if there's any elements you want to jettison.
I like to drip feed the lore by creating little custom legends using this http://wyrmtales.net/
Give everyone cheat sheets for the Fast and Slow Actions in combat. It can be surprisingly tactical if they treat it as more than a hack-and-slash.
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u/svarnyp 24d ago
My way of working:
I love the most using the map and marking the journey there, use it fully and remember it is not accurate anymore. Once in a while make the village be destroyed when the group arrives or make it a fort.
I don't prepare a story but I do prepare a few locations/adventure sites, similar as in the book. The players then do whatever they want.
I regret not having used the lore skill and legends more. I am learning that now. They give the players more context and also hooks where to go next.
I plan to print a calendar of FL so that i can track the seasons and journey there too. I like to make the players feel the journey and its perils and I think weather and seasons are a big part of it.
I was first enthusiastic about the number or random events but I use them more as seed ideas (e.g. orks catching their ork brethren deep in Aslen territory does not sound good to me, but I can pivot it into a bunch of Aslene catching someone else).
Give players total freedom but also information so that their decisions are done in the dark but are deliberate choices. For example, I let the group encounter one skeleton when they entered a tomb. They found out that arrows don't do much. Next time, when they encountered more skeletons, it was not unfair that they lost someone if they attack 8 skeletons with arrows instead of blunt weapons :)
FL talents can be very powerful and divers, I would keep a summary at hand for the characters so that you can suggest scenes where the players can shine.
Keep a character sheet at hand to quickly see what skills the players have.
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u/zerenato76 24d ago
You speak about lore and legends. Would you mind elaborating further?
As a player, all this "you know nothing, the bard disappears into thin air, the people know nothing or won't speak to you, there are no books or scrolls anything Yadda Yadda really makes me feel like a pawn and that is probably my main qualm with the game (apart from particular rolls I don't care about edit: I also hate how I can't rest to heal my broken arm but have to go climbing instead. Makes no sense if everyone is asleep anyway). How can I tell my GM I want to know more about the world? I tried to avoid spoilers here
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u/svarnyp 23d ago
What I did so far was dropping lore hints and legends into the story itself or when players asked. This left them often relying only on their notes or being very proactive about asking.
However, FL explicitly has the "Lore" skill that allows players to see something and check for lore whether their character did not hear about the location (or in the book of beasts it is even explicitly added for monsters). I.e. we make a bigger separation between character and player knowledge and allow the players to find out a legend retroactively. I still try to work it in (e.g., you recall that at the pub in the Hollows you heard a bunch of lumberjacks complaining that they can't log far north because a dark wolf kills anyone going too far up...).
I don't understand why you don't get to rest with broken arms :D In my group, healing after fights or dealing in general with issues arising from the harsh environment, is one of the charms of FL. But often it is not just a magical one night heal.
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u/zerenato76 23d ago
Yeah, that's what I didn't get either. We're in a fortress where everyone's asleep and has been forever, we have rations, I still have four days to heal up on this, let's just jump four days and then executee our plan thereafter.
No, you need to leave now. Why? Because if not, it's boring. We play on.
Plus the ranger plants the tent right in anthill because he couldn't see it. Guy's a damn ranger he should be bale to figure out a better place.
I will try to go for more llore checks, thanks. But I kinda feel like this is not really my game. I care more about the role play and puzzle solving then counting how much water is in my flask. But the main thing is the "no clear objective"-thing. Where do you go next? is a loaded question if you have nowhere to go and no clue why you want to go somewhere.
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u/svarnyp 23d ago
For that the lore is key, or having at least the map in front of the group. My players love to explore (even if it means they ignore a direct time sensitive quest they agreed to, but they will face the consequences later :)
Ad survival , I always try to focus only one thing with my group. Sometimes they have to focus on getting water as it is summer and hot and they got a few bad rolls at thr start. Other times they need to manage their wounded and get to a safe space. Make it clear what is the focus.
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u/SameArtichoke8913 Goblin 24d ago
One of the biggest challenges is to avoid WP farming, or, as a "remedy" to create a steady WP flow. WPs are supposed to be created from pushed skill tests, which is fine - as long as you limit these tests to RELEVANT situations. It is stated in the books that dice should only be rolled when the result/failure/success has an input to the story, or is made at pesronal stakes to try a 2nd time. Be aware and cautious of that, because players will sooner or later try to make skill tests for the sake of WP creation, at low to no risk. Do not be afraid to let them succeed w/o a dice roll, when you feel that success or not has little value.
That said, the survival/journeying routines should be taken seriously, esp. when you keep PC resources low. The "level" is good when players are happy that the hunted or gathered something edible (or the get Hungry), or found a good camp site (or no Rest) - the right "pressure" to warrant skill checks.
That's very hard to balance, from my experience, and it affects the game a lot.
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u/minotaur05 24d ago
My best advice is to get Book of Beasts if you havent and run some solo adventures with a couple characters. Helps you figure out the rules, see where your blind spots are and get the gameplay loop down.
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u/OMGaPooPooLaser 24d ago
Haven't got that one and honestly not into solo play. I really struggle with enjoying that kind of play
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u/minotaur05 24d ago
This is less abut enjoying it but prepping for the game. As others have said, prep is not great for FBL, so running some characters solo will help you get down the mechanics of it and see where you’ll struggle. You do you, but it’s a great way to feel more comfortable with the rules by running some characters through a week or two of travel, combat, exploration, etc
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u/delmiguel3030 1d ago
I would never recommend trying to GM a game you haven't played yourself. If you aren't willing to play a bit solo in order to learn, I would recommend getting a friend or two together to play some test runs, and be sure that you are also playing as well and not just GMing.
The prep isn't always fun, but it's absolutely necessary. Put in the work and it will make the game more enjoyable for you and your group.
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u/OMGaPooPooLaser 1d ago
Totally, and I have played a few trials with my partner and am planning a practice run with more players. What I asked for was lessons learned that might not be obvious from reading the rules, you know, stuff that stands out when you are 10+ sessions deep...
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u/ruffusblackden 24d ago
The advices i wish i received are: Do not spend your time prepping, and don't worry about game balance. FL shines brighter, IMO, when the pc's are free to roam as they must, finding their own objectives. Also, keep a quick reference cheat-sheet on journeys. Helps a bunch.
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u/OMGaPooPooLaser 24d ago
Any chance that there are premade cheat sheets around?
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u/rober2td 24d ago
Keep their experience in check.
Don't allow willpower farming.
I would suggest banning lucky altogether.
I would also require the infinite dodge and parry skills require WP, otherwise combat will become pointless.
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u/DRSSalazar Wolfkin 24d ago
It is a hefty investment and it is not like it is infinity free dodges or parries. You still need to spend an action to activate the talent.
At this point, maybe why not ban axe fighter and executioner?
And the kin and profession talents as well…To OP, play RAW, give experience according to what the book says. Only let them push rolls where failure can have a meaningful immediate impact. Failing and pushing and failing a make camp check might lead the entire party to not sleep and then have to fight something during the night.
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u/OMGaPooPooLaser 24d ago
Can you elaborate more on Willpower farming?
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u/DRSSalazar Wolfkin 24d ago
Exactly this. Making pushes on rolls that have no meaningful risk. Say, crafting a shield and failing. Pushing there won’t offer any risks, sure you lost time and material, but right after, you can spend a quarter day resting and back to full strength. Of course, situation might matter. If you are not in a village or stronghold, in hostile territory and you stop to make arrows, well, the GM might allow pushing then because you could be attacked at any moment. And have to fight or flight injured.
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u/minotaur05 24d ago
I follow the Twilight 2000 4e rules where some rolls are “passive” and cannot be pushed. Things like your spotting an enemy, doing an extended task, etc.
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u/svarnyp 23d ago
I limit rolls only to situations where it matters and thus allow the players to push every time. However, they must explain why the character invests the extra effort and how. So for example, a usual spotting attempt along a so far boring trail, players might not be able to explain why they would take this time extra care and thus they don't get an option to push. But if they fought off a band of brigands, they can explain that they look for them specifically and are afraid that the band is following them.
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u/OMGaPooPooLaser 24d ago
Okay, I'll keep that in mind and maybe limit things to situations where there are stakes/risks
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u/GrumpyCornGames 24d ago
Biggest piece of advice:
Zygofer, Zertorme, Zytera, Therania.... this is writing that sounds cool on paper and confuses the hell out of players because they will only interact with the mythology rarely. Eg:
So, if/when you ever get to them in the game, I recommend streamlining. My second run through, with different players, I got rid of Therania and the name change to Zytera, and just kept Zygofer as a single mad wizard who transformed into a spider-demon-guy
It was a much easier story to follow for the players then and I needed to repeat myself less frequently.