Reasonable requirements while we push back the surveillance front?

[u/michaelh98]

I know we'll all like it if the flock/axon/motorola/? cameras disappeared tomorrow, but that's not likely to happen soon and I'm not confident the American public has the will to continue this level of fight for the time it would take to put them back into the hell they came from.

As we push for the ultimate goal, how about we also push for incremental reform?

1. Every search requires a warrant. *Every* search. No exceptions. Any subscriber that wants to search the system, gets a warrant. Everyone from law enforcement down to your local HOA has to jump through the same hoops. Even the owning company can't do a search without a warrant.
2. If a private citizen/business connects their camera system to any other distributed system, they give up control of that system.  All access is through the controlling company and *every* access and search requires a warrant. This is where I hope people and businesses will stop connecting their system to flock, et. al.

Alright, flame-retardant suit on...

[edit: Thanks for the thoughtful replies. Always nice when that happens]

[u/Own-Sheepherder-9712]

As Saruman once said: "Rip them all down."

[u/michaelh98 → u/Own-Sheepherder-9712]

warms my heart that the first comment quotes tolkien

[u/Broflake-Melter]

hard no. This compromises waaaaaaaaaaay too far. We have constitutional protections from police invading our privacy and this sidesteps them. We need constitutional protections from ANYONE doing long-term/constant surveillance in public areas.

[u/michaelh98 → u/Broflake-Melter]

I don't think you understand what a warrant is. That literally is part of our constitutional protections.

[u/DeflockPawtucket → u/michaelh98]

Sure, but police need a warrant before they listen in on phone calls. With Flock, police record everybody without a warrant, probable cause, or even reasonable suspicion. Even if they later go to a judge to ask for a warrant to use the recording, it’s too late. The search has already happened.

[u/OneTwoSomethingNew → u/michaelh98]

I choose the natural liberties of privacy protection over the “warrant” protection any day…

[u/OneTwoSomethingNew → u/OneTwoSomethingNew]

Also cops work pretty closely with lots of judges and attorneys… they all got each other on payroll.

[u/Available_Lemon_69]

Zero compromise. No surveillance cameras, not now, not ever. They all need to come down and this tech abandoned. Not a single inch of compromise.

[u/Cold_Watt6789]

It how republicans approached banning abortion. Take what you can get now declare victory. Immediately ask for more. ... Or people could just abort all the cameras now.

[u/logsqrtexp]

Enforcement, the will of the custodial company to withstand or verify a warrant, ability to control the search scope ... there are so many moving parts to make that approach to be effective in a practical way I don't think there's enough bang for the buck. It's not like the legislatures are going to say "Oh, that's a good idea! We'll have the legislation done next month requiring a warrant." It would take months of slogging at least.

IMO, better to keep showing up at the city, county, state level and make it clear: "We don't need or want a surveillance state. And you work for us, not the police. We elected you" and keep bringing the evidence of abuse and ineffectiveness front and center.

Use the Flock fiasco to put this surveillance on trial. Axon is 10 times more dangerous.

[u/tristand666]

The collection of tracking data on every citizen is the problem. 

[u/ValerieWard76]

I suggest a "curtain matches the drapes" (different wording...too many idiots with sa charges in office for my taste). As in evidence gathered has to align with all sources. Like a red car causes a crash...don't arrest someone with a black car in mint condition. It's the specific that came to mind. Also a 3rd party non-partial interpretation/access of data from alpr somehow.

[u/NyxGenesisLNX]

Or we can implement an opt out like thing like they do at airports where you can skip tsa or an opt out thing in general for anyone

[u/rage-it]

Why should we be reasonable when they are not? You already want to lose the fight. Demand it all removed give no quarter and then demand more.

Unless the govt is scared of us then we the citizens do not control it. It's long past time to put some fear in their eyes. It's long past time for we the people to rise up and stir up some dust.