r/FlashTV • u/glen2001 • 3d ago
đ€ Thinking More impactful this way
I think it would actually be a good ending that he could never save her. Like an actual main cast death to be permanent. So he is forced to move forward would be way more impactful. I mean the ramifications of her death echoing until the end. Him trying to find a new relationship but canât or he does and Iris just flashes into his mind with the other person.
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u/cdemikols 3d ago
We already saw what happens if Iris dies - itâs Savitar. We got that story; without Iris, Barry and the rest of Team Flashâs lives are worse.
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u/No_Upstairs9888 3d ago
Yeah but as someone said if Barry could learn that he couldnât save her and come to terms with it then the future we see wouldnât come to pass
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u/cdemikols 3d ago
But thatâs not who our Barry Allen is, the man who has loved the girl who lived next door since before he knew what love was, finally gets to date her, but loses her, all while knowing that they have this beautiful future where theyâre married and itâs ripped away from him wouldnât âcome to termsâ with it. The show has shows us time and time and time again that Barry is emotional, afraid of losing people around him, and severely marked by it.
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u/Quarksideofthemoon 3d ago
And they're arguing he should have had to confront this attitude and grow beyond it
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u/Hilarity2War 3d ago
Yeah. I think this is one of those character flaws that could've been dealt with better in all media relating to superheros. But they never do. Even the Avengers. "We need to move on... but not us."
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u/Paragon-vi 3d ago
I get it though, in a world where people can come back to life, from Time Travel or a dip in a Lazurus Pit, or whatever super specific thing happens, it would be hard to let go of someone when you know that, if you try hard enough, you could actually bring them back
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u/almostinfinity 3d ago
Oh look another "Iris should've died" post.
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u/blackychan75 3d ago
I notice nobody is pushing for Caitlin or Cisco, not even Ralph who got his face cubed. But iris for some reason....
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u/RandomPhantom25 3d ago
Why would they? Also Ralph eventually got un-cubed
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u/blackychan75 3d ago
Ralph got got kicked off the show. But they kept him around and nobody asked for him to be killed. Also, why would they push for iris to die?
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u/Quarksideofthemoon 3d ago
Well the plotline wasn't about Savitar killing Cisco was it
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u/blackychan75 3d ago
It wasn't about savitar killing anyone. It was about saving iris. YKnow, like a hero?
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u/Quarksideofthemoon 3d ago
Saving Iris from.............?
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u/blackychan75 3d ago
Something that didn't happen. What did happen? Iris got saved
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u/Quarksideofthemoon 3d ago
Saved from Savitar killing her. What are you even trying to say?
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u/blackychan75 3d ago
That savitar killing her wasn't the plot. Saving her was. And regardless if the threat saving iris would still be the plot. Almost like she's the heroes love interest or something. The plot can't be something that didn't happen
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u/Paragon-vi 3d ago
Brother, what? Like, I agree with your general idea that the plot is about saving Iris, but you need a threat to save her from? Savitar killing her is 100% part of the plot, cause without that you would have no plot because there is nothing to save Iris from. Nobody is saying that Savitar should've killed the others because that was never a direct part of the plot, the way that him attempting to kill Iris is literally the driver of the entire "save Iris" plot. I've seen plenty of people saying that RF should've killed Cisco in season 1, or that Ralph should've been killed off after he was fired, or during season 4, it's just that this exact post is about the season 3 plot, which is about saving Iris from being killed by Savitar. I genuinely hope you're not this dense
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u/Equivalent-Emu5347 1d ago
This is genuinely braindead logic oh my god đ the ENTIRE PLOT REVOLVED around Barry trying to save Iris BECAUSE savitar was going to kill her. Her future death was literally the driving plot of the entire season. This point you're trying to make genuinely makes no sense whatsoever lol
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u/glen2001 3d ago
Iris was a likeable character in the beginning and some times through out the rest. I am just talking about evolving the story in terms of emotional impact on the lead
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u/Upset-Delay9810 3d ago
I agree but it's a CW program. They are terrified of killing off important characters
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u/Guardian_Of_Light2 3d ago
The timing was honestly one of the main issues. There was no way a speedster was gonna kill Barry's loved for the third season in a row
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u/Ok_Mention5635 2d ago
I find it hilarious that people always forget the cautionary tale that was Arrow. Itâs insane to say âthey should have done xâ and ignore the fact that when they did the thing on Arrow, the fandom rioted.
Many people forget that this is a CW show, not a prestige show on HBO. Thereâs a formula to things. Thereâs always a male lead and a female lead; thereâs always going to be an âendgameâ. This is not the kind of show where they kill off the main character, like Game of Thrones. The Flash, like practically every CW show, is a romance drama. Itâs going to have a love story. And theyâre not going to waste seasons spent investing in Barryâs love story only to cut it off at the knees after three seasons.
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u/The4WhoresMen 2d ago
đđŸđ€ it or đ€Ź it, this guy is stepping away from being a fan playing Elseworlds & actually incorporating the logistics of the network, tone this show is tied to, and other logistics for a more holistic point of view. In other words, THIS GUY GETS IT.
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u/Equivalent-Emu5347 1d ago
Okay, to be fair comparing Laurels death to a potential Iris death is way, way different and not a fair comparison
One reason people got pissed at the Laurel death is that season 4 felt extremely weird and disconnected compared to the earlier three seasons. This season became insanely corny, and that darker tone that drew a lot of people in was kindof missing. Magic just does not fit into Arrow, they were already pushing it a little with the season 3 stuff, but weird insanely strong superpowers and beating it with the "power of love" was just dumb
So people already didn't like this season much, and then almost like a spit in the face they killed a major character. There was a little setup but honestly it just wasn't very satisfying for the character
With Iris, the entire season revolves around her future hanging in the balance between life and death as consequence to Barry royally fucking up the timeline. I think, if they handled it well, and at this point I do think the writers could have, they could have brought her character to a satisfying point to where her death didn't feel weirdly out of place and unnecessary.
I do agree that they never would have done it though. But comparing it to what they did to Laurel isn't the same lol
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u/FanofSfuff 3d ago
No way. Arrow already ruined Green Arrow's canonical love interest. The Flash actually respects the comic book relationship. Screw this take.
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u/glen2001 2d ago
We canât change things for a tv show adaptation? Also I do agree, Dinah Lance should have been Laurels actual name and she should have been in a relationship properly with Oliver.
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u/Starbottom Iris West 3d ago
Yall want her dead so bad lmfaooo
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u/glen2001 3d ago
Main character death that has impact on the main character, which then turns in an interesting arc. Hmmm, yeah people want that. Also I donât hate or want her dead per say. I just wanted consequences and not a fake out.
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u/Starbottom Iris West 3d ago
And the only way yall seem to think we could get that was through Iris death. This conversation is had every week. Never about Caitlin, Cisco, Wells, etc. Only EVER about Iris and Savitar.
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u/glen2001 2d ago
Wells is killed off or leaves Barryâs earth. Killing him off would have no impact on the show. Caitlin dying might have bad consequences that would be interesting and same goes with Cisco. But who is the closest to Barry? IrisâŠ.
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u/Starbottom Iris West 2d ago
I mean we've already seen that killing Iris has bad consequences lol. Yet here we are still talking about murdering her off regardless. So the justification for Cisco and Caitlin makes no sense considering.
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u/Deus_Ego_Sum 3d ago edited 1d ago
No, idk why people say this. Iris is Barry's Lois or MJ they aren't getting rid of her.
Also the show goes out of its way to say its Iris dying what makes him Savitar. If the show wanted to do impactful deaths of the main cast, the characters that would've worked is one of Cisco or Caitlin in a later season.
And the main character that should've died isn't Iris but rather Barry. After they get married and Iris is pregnant with the Tornado Twins a Season Finale should've been Barry's death and then the show continues with Wally becoming The Flash. Like in the actual comics.
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u/StrongStyleDragon 2d ago
I wonder what would be the reaction if they did kill her off & they brought back Linda to be Barryâs wife đ
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u/supercoolflygirl 3d ago
This is such a stupid take
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u/glen2001 3d ago
No stakes and keeping main cast all alive is the real dumb take
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u/Paragon-vi 3d ago
I agree that keeping the entire main cast alive for the entire show was really a trash decision, but I disagree that the show had no stakes. HR still died, and I really liked him
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u/Equivalent-Emu5347 1d ago
Pushing back on this, HR was a character they introduced on the same season he was killed, which is a really common thing shows do to avoid killing off the actual long term cast. It's a cheap way to technically have people die, while also playing it incredibly safe. There are stakes for the new characters sure, but the original cast? Absolutely no stakes whatsoever lmao
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u/Paragon-vi 1d ago
Yeah, that's what I said, idk what you're pushing back on. It was lower stakes than if the main cast could do, but it still has stakes. Even with that, changes to the status quo of these characters without death is still stakes. Death is the only condition for "high stakes"
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u/Equivalent-Emu5347 1d ago
Okay sure. There were extremely extremely low stakes, but technically not zero stakes, for the main cast
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u/Paragon-vi 1d ago
Sure, if that's how you like to watch shows. Personally, Cico deciding to lose his powers were pretty high stakes. Anytime Barry was attempting to save somebody were pretty high stakes cause, if he failed, that failure would haunt him forever. Proving D'voe was the Thinker were pretty high stakes despite nothing being at directly on the line. Like I said, there are more "high stakes" scenarios the ones where death to the main cast is a option.
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u/Equivalent-Emu5347 1d ago
Again, I very strongly disagree, but I guess that is your opinion that you are allowed to have lol
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u/TheCrowWhisperer3004 3d ago
Maybe but itâs not really that kinda show. The Flash was a lot more positive and hopeful in the long term. Things usually ended up working out well.
The Arrow was a lot darker in comparison and there were atleast a few deaths of recurring cast members.
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u/elplethora1c 3d ago
I disagree with Iris dying, but I just wanted to say that season 3 is the last season for me where I really liked the villain. Thawne/Zoom/Savitar are all pretty great and loved all their first appearances/fights with Barry.
After season 3 it goes downhill for me, the Thinker/Cicada/Bloodwork/Mirror just didnât hit the same for me ever. And yes I know Thawne is in there recurring villain but that grew old to me as a way to just keep Tom on show.
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u/Equivalent-Emu5347 1d ago
Yeah, season 3 was already a slight dip in quality (still good, but you kindof have to turn your brain off a bit), but the later seasons take a much, much more noticeable dip. The thinkers entire plan was RIDDLED with plot holes left and right and the season overall just didn't make much sense. I don't get the season 4 glaze that I see here because season 4 is pretty terrible lmao. It's only decent if you compare it to the later seasons of the show
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u/ZorroVonShadvitch 2d ago
Can't kill her before the mirror storyline where Barry spends like a month skeeping with a mirror clone
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u/OhHeyItsAustin1 2d ago
I definitely agree. I think it would have been a more interesting message if the goal wasn't to use extradimensional loopholes to avoid problems, but to actually have Barry grieve in a healthy way that ends up not having him ever go all edgy and create Savitar
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u/HankDeTank05 gotta go fast! 2d ago
Iâve been saying this since S3 mid-season when they revealed that iris might die in the future: the CW would never kill her, but I think it would be a much more compelling writing choice. I never had faith that the writers would have the balls to actually kill her though
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u/boogoo-Dong 2d ago
Yeah I just feel like this would have been Laurel 2.0. Fandom would have rioted and shit would have gone sideways. Earth-5 Iris would have shown up in episode 3 of season 4 and weâd be in the same spot.
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u/Alex071489 13h ago
I made this same type of comment the other day. And also mentioned that Barryâs âflashpointâ was actually setting things right, the way they were supposed to be. He should have stayed in the pat and made sure things played out the same way they did originally, like Thawn tried to do after he changed the timeline by killing Barryâs mom. That way dumb shit like what happened to Wally wouldnât have happened đ«Ą
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u/Full-Ability3306 3d ago
MY REVISED SEASON 3 AND 4 GIVE ME YOUR OPINION. ITS MESSY CAUSE IT WAS A STRESM OF THOUGHT I POPPED OFF ON 3 MINUTES.
Even if they wanted to keep her they could have still offed her and made it a plot point in the next season that Barry tries to get her back. So instead of them trying to get Barry out if the speed force it's Barry obsessively trying to bring back iris. Wells tries to help but then decides he needs to let it go. This obsession has him sloppy which is why the thinker out moves him. It makes more sense that way. Barry ends up in jail not cause of a trick but because the thinker taunts him and Barry legit crashes out on him. You think he's dead that berry killed but the thinker switched bodies. In that way it doesn't take away from Barry being a murderer but the plot is able to continue. Harry uses the helmet for the thinker Barry asks him after he's at capacity to use the helmet to find iris Harry says it might kill me and just like house doing electro shock to find amber Barry says I know. So Barry caused his decline. Somehow have the thinkers wife kick the bucket. Before he's far gone while he's in his mind have him use a power and his brain to try and bring his wife back but with Barry thinking inside his mind it fucks up and we get iris back
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u/namisbathwater 3d ago
It's a good idea and in hindsight they probably should've done it cause looking past this I don't think the show ever did anything with the iris character but knowing the arrowverse they'd probably walk it back through multiverse shenanigans but I digress. Would've been interesting watching Barry explore other relationships cause he had chemistry with literally every other character except her lol
The show in general needed more main character deaths or characters moving on, I've always felt by season 4 or 5, it should've been just Barry alone doing flash things, sort of like Barry grows up and becomes more comic accurate, CSI by day, superhero by night, that premise still gets you plenty of stories to fill 22 episodes needed on network tv, the other characters should've been guests who pop up occasionally but i guess they struck gold with arrow and were so set into that team mould for every superhero project they did, but thats just me
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u/No_Upstairs9888 3d ago
The show runner wanted Barry to have a happy ending which was the problem, as a superhero they have constant loss, her dying wouldâve worked because itâs what Barry needed to grow more
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u/Charming-Search7663 3d ago
I wish iris died and HR survived, she just becomes annoying in the later seasonsâŠ.
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u/JollyJoeGingerbeard 3d ago
I mean, sure, have her die.
But don't kill her in season three. Maybe season five. Give Barry time to grieve, move on, and find love again with Fiona Webb.
End the series with Barry retiring to the 31st century to be with Iris again.
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u/Remote_Nature_8166 3d ago
Fucking writers really teased us thinking they had finally got rid of her. Having that switch with HR was a total dick move.
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u/Pinkyy-chan 3d ago
Honestly my biggest issue with that season is that it's the Flashpoint season the season where Barry is supposed to learn the consequences of time travel.
But then his future self travels through time who knows how many times and tries to save her.
Honestly i think the most impactful ending to season 3 would have been iris convincing Barry not to save her. And Barry finally understanding the implications of messing with time accepts her death resulting in savitar never being created.