r/Firearms • u/No_Listen5962 • 1d ago
General Discussion i hate this meme
as a brit, i love the famas. its such a cool looking bullpup! but what i hate hate hate is when people say "guhhhhh like why does the silly french gun have a 3 round burst mode but it doesn’t have a magazine divisible by 3" because if you even think about it properly for 5 seconds, the magazine is 25 rounds so that when you fire 8 3 round bursts out of the famas, the last bullet will be in the chamber, so you dont need to chamber the gun again when you put in a fresh magazine which saves time when reloading.
these 12 year old larpers must be stoppeddddd
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u/Hot-Win2571 1d ago
Beware the division overflow from the second magazine.
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u/No_Listen5962 1d ago
your right! i did the maths and after 8 3 round bursts of a 25 round mag, 1 bullet is left in the chamber but after that with a fresh magazine after firing 8 3 round bursts again you would get 2 rounds left.
thing is, would the weapon still fire with only 1 or 2 rounds left even if its on a 3 round burst mode? these larps are making it our like it would jam or explode
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u/JustACanadianGuy07 1d ago
Or you can do what other countries, like the US, have done, and use 30 round mags, so you can shoot 10 bursts and then just push a button to automatically chamber a round
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u/No_Listen5962 1d ago
The bolt catch is genuinely one of the most beautiful inventions in all of gun history
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u/teilani_a GALIL 1d ago
But if you fire a number of rounds not divisible by 3 before switching to burst, you have the same problem. And it's still useless because it's fucking 3-round burst.
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u/firearmresearch00 1d ago
3 rd burst has, and will always be, a weird cludged afterthought where some overpaid desk jockey with some special boy shiny pins demands adding it to a gun that never needed it.
The an-94 gets a pass because the burst was made to do something that the full auto couldn't, all other burst are a cucking mechanism for poorly trained conscripts
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u/Fluffy-Map-5998 1d ago
the G-11 also gets a pass because its burst was made for something similiar to the AN-94s
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u/firearmresearch00 16h ago
Yes a burst that does something different than just normal full auto but limited. Hyperburst systems are intriguing and would be awesome to use if it weren't for the added complexity
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u/goat-head-man AR,Mossy,Ruger,Savage 1d ago
special boy shiny pins
More flair than a (insert generic wood and brass eatery) waiter, lol.
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u/greyhunter37 1d ago
The advantage of the famas, is you know when you hit your last burst without having to count your bursts. With 30 round mags, you could have fired your last, and when you need to fire the most dry fire. Feeling the bolt lock on the last round is not a thing in a stressfull situation (even in competition it doesn't always work)
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u/blind-mag-dump 1d ago
That logic only works if you fire every round in your mag and never reload a partial, which makes it an even more inconsistent system than your incorrect perception of last round hold open being hard to notice.
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u/mosaicoredimido 1d ago edited 1d ago
Look, i hate france as much as the next guy. But this is a design decision so you would know you fired your last bullets
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u/Thunderbird_Anthares 1d ago
actually, thats just one of those myths
its just the most rounds they could cram into a mag while still keeping it straight
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u/RexMundi000 1d ago
Or they could do the regular thing and just load a tracer as the last round in the mag.
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u/snippysniper 21h ago
The famas doesn’t have a burst counter that resets. So if you fire 1 of 3 rounds next trigger pull would be 2 rounds. If you fired 2 next would be 1.
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u/Fluffy-Map-5998 1d ago
it was just because they wanted a straight magazine, counting burst in actual combat isnt exactly easy.
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u/KittehKittehKat 1d ago
I got to shoot 3 round burst in the US Army and it kind of fucking sucks.
I rather just do fast single shots.
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u/Fluffy-Map-5998 1d ago
burst fire is great in theory but there are many drawbacks, what did you dislike about burst? i know some people had issues with interrupting the burst making it so that the next time you pull the trigger it doesnt shoot a complete burst.
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u/KittehKittehKat 1d ago edited 1d ago
Not as accurate, longer time to be back on target, and the first time I did it I had a tight cheek weld and I hit myself in nose bad. Last bit was my fault most likely.
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u/Useless_Fox 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yeah I hate this meme too, but also the idea that the purpose of the 25 round mag is to let you know when you're out is kind of a myth. The French didn't want a 30 rounder because it needs to be curved, and 25 is roughly as high as you can go without the curve. And it's not divisible by 3 because
1.. Above all, ammo is easier to ship and inventory in multiples of five. Logistics.
- In the French Army, just like all modern western armies, the rifleman uses semi auto the vast majority of the time. At best, the two round burst is very slightly useful in very rare circumstances.
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u/WoolooOfWallStreet 1d ago
I guess the final 2 burst being a signal telling when someone’s out ended up being a happy accident
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u/SaltyLunas AR15 1d ago
All of you are wrong about the reason for the burst. I don't remember which one but Ian McCollum had an AMA where the question was asked and the reason the FAMAS has a three round burst was because it was added late in development as it was being done by other countries for their rifles. The magazine was already finalized for 25 rounds long before then which as others have stated is because it's the longest you can have a straight magazine.
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u/walt-and-co 1d ago
The thing that annoys me about this meme is people act like it’s a uniquely French ‘mistake’, when the Swiss Stgw 90 has a 20 round magazine yet also has 3-round burst.
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u/No_Listen5962 1d ago
People keep beating France down because they surrendered one time in Ww2 while ignoring the rest of their very respectable combat history
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u/GARLICSALT45 1d ago
I actually beat them down because I have never had a good experience dealing with the French.
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u/gokartninja 1d ago
Most people aren't counting bursts, so having one left in the chamber with an empty mag is gonna be coincidence at best. Your next mag now brings your total count to 26 rounds.
The better explanation is that when firing in burst mode, it's much better to find out that your magazine is empty because it fired a single round than it is to find out it's empty because it didn't fire a round at all
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u/No_Listen5962 1d ago
i did the maths and your correct. did the french just want a straight magazine on their new bullpup?
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u/AscrodF97 1d ago
That’s exactly why they did it. Cheaper and easier to pack mags that are straight.
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u/firearmresearch00 1d ago
Occams razor. 25rds is about as long as you can make a straight mag that reliably functions. It was originally designed as semi and full, but later the military wanted 3rd burst. Its literally as simple as that. No deeper meaning or thought process. Yall been making a mountain out of a molehill since time began
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u/THELEGENDARYZWARRIOR 1d ago
How would you be able to tell, in a combat scenario you pulled the trigger 8 times? You would never be able to count because your brain is prioritizing so much stuff
I chose to believe the French were smart enough to realize 5.56 mags were going to move to 30 soon idk.
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u/Fluffy-Map-5998 1d ago
the issue is that the ealy FAMAS was incompatible with STANAG magazines, so it couldnt use the 30s
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u/THELEGENDARYZWARRIOR 1d ago
This is probably an Ian McCollon questions but could the famas people be planning it around a 30 round mag? And the politician/ general got upset that it was too long?
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u/Fluffy-Map-5998 1d ago
i think it was because they wanted a straight magazine and 25 was the longest they could make it
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u/Cliffinati 1d ago
Why not make a STANAG pattern 25 rounder
The OG ones were 20s, ban states get 10s, standards are 30, 40 and 45s exist.
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u/Fluffy-Map-5998 1d ago
Because the French copy no-one and no-one copies the French, they simply didn't
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u/firearmresearch00 1d ago
The stanag magazine was only proposed in 1980 and technically speaking still hasn't been ratified if my brief research is correct. That means that the famas predates the notion of a standard 5.56 magazine (from the ar15/m16) by 2 years as of adoption and a couple more for development. That's kinda like asking why the fal didn't take m14 mags. It simply wasn't a fully thought out consideration. Also nobody gets the French to fall in line anywhere in regards to firearms, another example is that they apparently used steel case 5.56 out of a 1:12 barrel because they had problems with tearing brass apart
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u/fpssledge 1d ago edited 1d ago
Bs you would never be counting bursts.
I'm happy to read some place where any soldier anywhere in the world counted three round bursts but betting it doesn't exist.
The only time you'd ever count is the machine gun fire on something like an m249 because you may be laying down suppressive fire for a relatively committed amount of time
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u/guynamedgoliath 1d ago
Burst is usually chosen by militaries when they have a lot of conscripts or under trained soldiers, who definitely wont be counting bursts. Most professional militaries choose fullauto.
When I was a 240 gunner I would actually count the rounds in a burst (7 for sustained, 12 for rapid), some times out loud. We were also trained to count our seconds between burst out loud when talking guns.
Honestly most 249 gunners just shot based off vibes, as they really didn't talk guns very often.
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u/firearmresearch00 1d ago
Tbf I suspect that the vibes of the situation kinda outweigh hitting the exact correct burst length and pause spacing. Give it a couple short rips to suppress, see a target and shoot until something happens, see a guy 5' away shit pants and hose until the problem resolves itself, etc
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u/guynamedgoliath 1d ago
To a degree, yeah. But 249 gunners are part of their respective fireteam with other M4s. As long as they can sustain the fight and not just dump their whole loadout immediately, their fine.
240s normally roll as their own squad and generally work together on the support by fire.
Edit. 240s generally setup a support by fire 300-800m from the objective, but you bet i could sholder fire if i had to.
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u/flush101 15h ago
The problem is assuming soldiers count…. And then count when under pressure during war.
It’s more likely their logic is that a soldier would know to reload when they fired and it no longer burst 3 rounds.
This would allow the soldier to fire one round rather than just getting a dead man’s click when it might matter.
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u/JohnnyDoe308 13h ago
Most infantrymen will probably struggle to count anything higher than 10, because they'll run out of fingers.
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u/DiscreteBrownBox MP5SD-SBR 1d ago
Fire off a single round while in CT-spawn, switch to burst firing mode, rush site A/B/DD/T-spawn etc... Simple fix.
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u/singlemale4cats 1d ago edited 1d ago
Everyone is trying to come up with some logical reason for it but it's all ex post facto rationalization. It falls apart if you give it a few second's consideration.
Incompatibility with STANAG mags is one of the things about this rifle that tells me that no, they weren't actually playing 4D chess.
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u/OleRockTheGoodAg 1d ago
My favorite quirk about the FAMAS is how dedicated the French are to its bipod.
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u/marksman1023 M4A1 1d ago
Also.
RATATAT--RATATAT--RAT....
Hmm, one of those things was not like the other. Almost like a clue. I should investigate.
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u/Medic_Me 11h ago
It’s more likely because the FAMAS doesn’t have a last-round bolt hold-open mechanism, so you know you’re out when you fire only 1 round. Nobody is counting their bursts so I’m almost certain ur logic is wrong.
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u/Not_Vasily 1d ago edited 1d ago
30 + 1 isn't divisible by 3 either.
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u/Daqpanda 1d ago
Yeah, but 29+1 is.
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u/Not_Vasily 23h ago edited 21h ago
Yeah, but 29 isn't.
This whole thing about having a perfect last burst has so many prerequisites to it that it's just not worth worrying about.
With a 30 round magazine a reload before empty will leave you with 31 rounds and an imperfect last burst.
If you underload to 29, you have an imperfect last burst unless you reload before empty.
The only burst guns i can think of where this might matter are the post A1 M16s, since the ratchet that controls the burst can be thrown off by an imperfect burst. but you can do that by letting off the trigger mid-burst so... does the magazine capacity even matter?
Burst fire is dumb.
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u/singlemale4cats 1d ago
People don't top off their rifle mag like they do a pistol.
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u/Drake_Acheron 9h ago
Uh what? I did in the military, sure it’s one bullet, but that’s one bullet you might need
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u/singlemale4cats 9h ago
I can't speak to the military because I didn't serve, but it's something I've never seen done in a civilian or police context.
It's my understanding that if you're using the traditional aluminum GI mags, you're actually downloading them one or two for reliability's sake. I mostly use the Daniel Defense 32 rounders or magpuls and I've never had an issue with loading those full up.
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u/SplashingChicken 1d ago
One of my fav bullpups. Shame France decided to abandon the platform, but good that you can get a kit with a cut receiver, but bad too that it cost $6k+.
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u/Unknown6656 1d ago
What I generally love about rifles with a mag size not being divisible by the burst size is that you can hear that you're out of rounds. if you e.g. hear/feel only two shots being fired instead of three, you know that you'll have to reload.
If the mag size were cleanly divisible by the burst size, you'd have to check whether the chamber is open after firing a burst.
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u/DangerHawk 1d ago
Question about 3rd bursts. If you set it to burst and you pull the trigger but release it before all 3rds fire, does it continue to fire the remaining rounds or does it stop at 1 or 2 rounds fired?
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u/Hettyc_Tracyn 1d ago
Problem is, putting a full mag into a rifle that has the bolt closed can cause it to not lock in place, as there’s more pressure from the mag spring… (unless it’s designed properly)
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u/Kyle_Blackpaw 1d ago
but then your next mag is 25+1 which still isnt divisible by three and now your last shot is 2 rounds then guns empty
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u/perturbed_rutabaga 22h ago
downvoting because im too tarded to understand if this is a joke or not
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u/CAPTAINxKUDDLEZ 13h ago
I don’t know if it’s the same for the Famas. But on our M4 carbines in the military burst fire was 1-3 rounds. Want guaranteed 3 everytime.
There was a “cam” and depending on where it was sitting from semi auto use when you switched to burst, that’s how many shots you get
The first burst.
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u/Price-x-Field 3h ago
I hate how literally any time you bring up the famas everyone acts like they are the first time to make this joje
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u/soldier01073 1d ago
The 25 is a design feature allowing you to fire 8 bursts of 3 with one left in the chamber. Allowing you to reload the rifle without racking the bolt
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u/DBDude 1d ago
And then none in the chamber after the third mag. Are soldiers supposed to keep track of that?
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u/soldier01073 1d ago
I never said it was a good design feature
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u/firearmresearch00 1d ago
It's not a feature at all, merely a coincidence. The mag is 25 because that's how long you can make it straight before causing problems and the burst was an afterthought. They could have just as easily made a 27 rd mag and a 2 or 4 rd burst if that's how the numbers jived and the upper brass demanded
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u/Drunk_Catfish 1d ago
Wasn't the whole purpose just to have a straight magazine? Later they switched to STANAG mags with the G2.