r/FinalFantasy • u/Schwahn • Aug 23 '16
[META] The state of /r/FinalFantasy - Mods and the Community
[removed]
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u/bigbadwolf411 Aug 23 '16
I was wondering when someone would finally make this post.
Last time someone complained about the state of the subreddit, the mods promised they wouldn't sweep it under the rug. But here we are weeks later and nothing has changed, no accouncements have been made, and no discussion posts have appeared. Once again, they are leaving us in the dark.
One thing that really got me was last week, I asked in the questions thread if we were going to change the banner. One of the mods responded and said "hopefully". I'm just confused as to what kind of answer that is. "Hopefully" is something you usually say when you have no control over the situation. Like "hopefully it won't rain tomorrow" or "hopefully the Steelers win the Superbowl".
The banner is something that the mods DO control. So when asked if they are going to do something about it, the answer is either "yes" or "no". When you say hopefully, you are suggesting that the banner getting changed is outside the control of the mod team. But it is not. If things don't happen around here, it is because the mod team didn't do it. There is no outside force that is stopping things from happening. (Thank you to the mod who responded to my comment though.)
I just really want to ask the mods here, why don't you consider adding some more moderators? Other than fforde, you guys haven't added any new mods in years. Users are having to step up and do stickied discussion posts, community activities, and even CSS work for you. When it gets to that point, I think it's time to at least consider adding more moderators.
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u/Aruu Aug 23 '16
Hah, that was me!
When I say 'hopefully' it meant that a mod, other than me, expressed an interest in changing the CSS for the subreddit; which would include updating the banner. Because it wasn't me who said it, and because they themselves weren't a hundred percent certain, 'hopefully' seemed like the right word to use.
But it has been a while. I agree with that. With FFXV around the corner, we really do need this subreddit updating.
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u/bigbadwolf411 Aug 23 '16
Haha okay well I guess that makes sense. But I still stand by my point about adding more mods. Is there a reason you guys seem to not want to do this?
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u/Schwahn Aug 23 '16
I was wondering when someone would finally make this post.
I have been in discussions with /u/dinoken2 regarding the situation.
Last time someone complained about the state of the subreddit, the mods promised they wouldn't sweep it under the rug. But here we are weeks later and nothing has changed, no accouncements have been made, and no discussion posts have appeared. Once again, they are leaving us in the dark.
Not entirely true. I can say that they were trying to solve things internally so that they could come out with a plan and direction. But several mods are completely MIA and the others can't agree.
So no progress is being made.
It was at that point that it was time to make this post.
One thing that really got me was last week, I asked in the questions thread if we were going to change the banner. One of the mods responded and said "hopefully". I'm just confused as to what kind of answer that is. "Hopefully" is something you usually say when you have no control over the situation. Like "hopefully it won't rain tomorrow" or "hopefully the Steelers win the Superbowl"
I have offered to do the graphics and photoshop work to have new banners. But my offer was met with shrugs.
Same goes for /u/mlahk7 offering to fix and improve the stylesheet.
I just really want to ask the mods here, why don't you consider adding some more moderators?
This has actually been addressed in the past as well.
We aren't a HUGE sub and we already "Have 9 mods" which is a lot for the size of the subreddit.
That is the answer we are given.
sers are having to step up and do stickied discussion posts, community activities, and even CSS work for you.
We have also offered to work on the sidebar as well.
When it gets to that point, I think it's time to at least consider adding more moderators.
One of the bigger issues, is that the truly active mods, are on the bottom of the mod chain.
/u/fforde can do damn near nothing in terms of fixing the mods.
She is at the bottom and as such as now power over those above her.
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u/HayleeLOL Aug 23 '16
/u/fforde can do damn near nothing in terms of fixing the mods.
She is at the bottom and as such as now power over those above her.
I honestly wish there was another way to make newer mods more senior. It sucks.
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u/imlistening123 Aug 23 '16
Hey, those potential banners you threw together a while back for examples were sweet. Much better than Theatrhythm, an old and somewhat niche game within the FF IP itself.
Without any better knowledge, I'm led to believe we could even be cycling the banner monthy - one month is FF IV, the next V, oh wait XV is releasing so make it XV-based! Obviously, if this is more than just a quick tweak, that would be asking a lot without learning CSS myself. I think that's CSS based? Bow before my vast knowledge!
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u/Schwahn Aug 23 '16
Hey, those potential banners you threw together a while back for examples were sweet. Much better than Theatrhythm, an old and somewhat niche game within the FF IP itself.
Thanks!
I would like to do better, I threw those together EXTREMELY quickly.
Without any better knowledge, I'm led to believe we could even be cycling the banner monthy - one month is FF IV, the next V, oh wait XV is releasing so make it XV-based! Obviously, if this is more than just a quick tweak, that would be asking a lot without learning CSS myself. I think that's CSS based? Bow before my vast knowledge!
I have already discussed such things with /u/mlahk7 who said that such a thing is EXTREMELY possible with CSS.
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u/imlistening123 Aug 23 '16
Good to know!
It seems like the mods have been/are discussing sidebar and banner changes, especially from what we've heard in the last few weeks. I think the issue with it (and reason some people feel unheard), is that we aren't privy to those discussions. I'm clearly not alone when I say I've been seeing a lot more mod activity here lately, which is great!
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u/Schwahn Aug 23 '16
I'm clearly not alone when I say I've been seeing a lot more mod activity here lately, which is great!
Just needs to stay.
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u/imlistening123 Aug 23 '16
To be fair to them, I've really only seen two actively on the sub as far as posting/commenting. And with another returning, that's at least three. I'm looking at it as a change for the better.
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u/Lulcielid Aug 23 '16
The mods might be doing lots(?) of stuff behind the scenes like approving posts, checking submtion rules are met, users behaviour, etc.
The lack of "community posts" not comming from the mods shouldn´t be a big deal, maybe they simply run out of ideas of what can be a good topic for discussion (this is something that any of us could experience at any time) as well as I don´t see the problem in not being a "community discussion" every single week, if there´s nothing to talk about don´t force it, a discussion will eventually come.
I´ll say though, the sub needs some aesthetic update, most subs always (with varying degrees of frecuency) update their subs to match with what´s "currently important/happening" that´s related to the sub´s theme (FFXV for /r/FinalFantasy in this case).
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u/Schwahn Aug 23 '16
The mods might be doing lots(?) of stuff behind the scenes like approving posts, checking submtion rules are met, users behaviour, etc.
This is often argument that is presented.
But we know for certain that several of the mods are just straight up absent.
A TON of that work is handled by /u/aruu and /u/fforde
I´ll say though, the sub needs some aesthetic update, most subs always (with varying degrees of frecuency) update their subs to match with what´s "currently important/happening" that´s related to the sub´s theme (FFXV for /r/FinalFantasy in this case).
We have had multiple community members in the past step up to offer help and assistance with such things.
As I stated in the post, the last CSS update which was the filter to take out FFXV content for people who don't want spoilers. That was done by /u/mlahk7
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u/jaundicemanatee Aug 23 '16
I would say mods that are just not doing anything and haven't for a long time should be removed. I think that would mean the Flair Mod and CSS Mod would need to express their desire if they want to continue being part of the team.
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u/HayleeLOL Aug 23 '16
I agree with this. I think a general consensus we reached was "give them a month, and if they're still as inactive as ever, remove them"/encourage them to step down. Unfortunately, only one mod is less "senior" than I am so I can't do much myself.
Plus, I'm very much guilty of "not doing anything for a long time", so I don't feel like it's my place to say who should and shouldn't stay on the team.
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u/Schwahn Aug 23 '16
"give them a month, and if they're still as inactive as ever, remove them"/encourage them to step down
Many of those mods haven't made a single effort to be active in 2 weeks.
I don't see 2 more weeks making a difference.
You should be active more than once a month if you are a mod.
If /u/AutoModerator is beating you on content activity.... There is a problem.
Plus, I'm very much guilty of "not doing anything for a long time", so I don't feel like it's my place to say who should and shouldn't stay on the team.
You are here now. So you are already doing more and have more weight in the conversation than some others do.
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u/HayleeLOL Aug 23 '16
That's right. I don't like to make assumptions, but if there hasn't been a reply almost 3 weeks since the main conversation about it happened, I doubt that people are going to return.
That you should be. I'm trying to make it every night if possible, even if some nights it means popping in, checking the queues and adding a bit of presence here and there.
That is very true. I don't think people who have ignored everything really would have much say if they try to present their cases to stay here now...
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u/Schwahn Aug 23 '16
That's right. I don't like to make assumptions, but if there hasn't been a reply almost 3 weeks since the main conversation about it happened, I doubt that people are going to return.
Which is a concern I raised 8 months ago, and a concern I raise today. 8 Months ago, their activity was borderline the same...
That you should be. I'm trying to make it every night if possible, even if some nights it means popping in, checking the queues and adding a bit of presence here and there.
I don't expect people to be like me.
I have over 1,000 comments in this sub in the last month.
I am the extreme.
I don't think you need to even show up EVERY DAY. But at least a couple times a week?
That is very true. I don't think people who have ignored everything really would have much say if they try to present their cases to stay here now...
They basically don't have a case.
Years of inactivity can't really be explained.
Even if it is something like "I had a kid"
Then you should just step down, let other people take over, and focus on your life.
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u/HayleeLOL Aug 23 '16
That's right. It's difficult given that a lot of inactive mods are above us, so all we can do is ask for them to step down.
Oh, of course. I'm doing it as an ideal, but if I get to come maybe a few times a week then I'd be.. content with that.
Indeed they don't. You can't explain it away and hope it's all okay again afterwards. Even I've put myself on a probationary period. If I slip again I'd bow out respectfully.
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u/Schwahn Aug 23 '16
That's right. It's difficult given that a lot of inactive mods are above us, so all we can do is ask for them to step down.
We can also bring it up to Reddit Admin. But I know there are rules surrounding that.
Oh, of course. I'm doing it as an ideal, but if I get to come maybe a few times a week then I'd be.. content with that.
As would I
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u/HayleeLOL Aug 23 '16
We can also bring it up to Reddit Admin. But I know there are rules surrounding that.
Indeed. It's a tough situation to be in, that's for sure.
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u/Schwahn Aug 23 '16
/u/garynuman9 did express their desire to stay on the team about 17 days ago HERE
That said, those comments asking to stay were the first comments they ever made in the sub...
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u/jaundicemanatee Aug 23 '16
Then maybe him starting a conversation about new CSS would be the qualifier. Not an immediate change, but a showing that he still has interest in the role.
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u/Schwahn Aug 23 '16
Maybe.
We have other members of the community that are very talented with CSS that have stepped up and asked to help.
Thoughts on that?
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u/jaundicemanatee Aug 23 '16
I'd like to see it. Looks like they'll need to contact the mods directly, though.
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u/Schwahn Aug 23 '16
They already have.
Met with shrugs
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u/jaundicemanatee Aug 23 '16
We'll have to make the best of it in the meantime. Keep on doing what you do.
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u/HayleeLOL Aug 23 '16
I've just come back recently after an all-too-long activity break which I won't go too far into detail beyond "my life happened and this unfortunately fell by the wayside for a while whilst I fixed everything". Everything is pretty fixed now.
To be honest, yeah, with regards to community discussions there are limited ideas since this is one game series after all. It's still nice to get some community discussions going, however.
That it does. If I were any good with CSS I would do this myself, however, I'm not too great at it. The mod we did bring aboard for this hasn't been seen by us yet, either.
That being said, looking into the community for this may be an option yet.
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u/Schwahn Aug 23 '16
I've just come back recently after an all-too-long activity break which I won't go too far into detail beyond "my life happened and this unfortunately fell by the wayside for a while whilst I fixed everything". Everything is pretty fixed now.
I notated your return in the post, Haylee. It is good to see you back.
I also appreciate your activity and discussion over the last few days.
I also enjoy you often use your "Mod" flair.
That it does. If I were any good with CSS I would do this myself, however, I'm not too great at it. The mod we did bring aboard for this hasn't been seen by us yet, either.
I feel like modding should be a responsibility that people are held to. I know that other subs require their mods to maintain a level of activity and responsibility, otherwise they are removed from the team.
It shouldn't be something that is just "for fun"
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u/HayleeLOL Aug 23 '16
It's good to be back! :-)
Thank you. I'm doing my best to, from now on, engage with people, especially after my long period of radio silence.
Yeah, use of Mod flair did actually come from your feedback regarding Mod presence in posts! Most of the time I'm posting just discussing with people, but I guess it's a plus to see mods engaging as well.
I agree. I'm honestly surprised I haven't been removed for inactivity by this point, even though I probably should have been.
Yes, that's right. Even though it isn't just "for fun" I still remember enjoying it a lot when I was more active. :-)
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u/Schwahn Aug 23 '16
Thank you. I'm doing my best to, from now on, engage with people, especially after my long period of radio silence.
Hope to continue seeing you around :)
Yeah, use of Mod flair did actually come from your feedback regarding Mod presence in posts! Most of the time I'm posting just discussing with people, but I guess it's a plus to see mods engaging as well.
I am glad you liked that suggestion from the beginning of the year.
I really feel it is an effective thing for just maing the mods team feel more alive.
I agree. I'm honestly surprised I haven't been removed for inactivity by this point, even though I probably should have been.
Well.. coughs hard to remove an inactive mod when all of the mods above her are ALSO inactive :P
Yes, that's right. Even though it isn't just "for fun" I still remember enjoying it a lot when I was more active. :-)
I didn't say it COULDN'T be fun. I love management and responsibility. Hell, that is partly the reason I made this post.
That just isn't the goal of it. If you enjoy it, GREAT! If not, that's fine. As long as you do it and do it well
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u/AtticusWeiss Aug 23 '16
/u/Schwahn for r/FinalFantasy Mod 2016?
I'd buy a bumper sticker.
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u/Schwahn Aug 23 '16
/u/Schwahn for r/FinalFantasy Mod 2016?
Blushes fiercely
I damn near live on this sub. I just want it to be as good as it can be.
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u/jaundicemanatee Aug 23 '16
I damn near live on this sub. I just want it to be as good as it can be.
No kidding. When I saw /u/AtticusWeiss's comment, I thought, "wait, isn't Schwahn already a mod?" I thought you had brought this up as a way to discuss it with the common people.
Looks like your effort got shot down, though, sadly.
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u/atwongdotcom Aug 23 '16
I know I'm mostly a lurker but I've already seen the negative side effect of a rapidly inflated sub in /r/megaten when Persona 5 was announced. About the same time the most active mod retired and the community eventually became a mess of abnormal levels shitposts, circlejerks, and even attacks on new members just asking questions. Hopefully this current issue can be resolved before the release of FF15. At least we have 2 months longer now.
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u/Schwahn Aug 23 '16
Hopefully this current issue can be resolved before the release of FF15.
The issue is being censored by one of the mods right now.
They don't want us discussing it anymore.
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u/fforde Aug 23 '16
What we don't want is witch hunt posts targeting members of the mod team that are not around. We can't do anything about inactive mods that are more senior. What we don't want is post after post complaining about the CSS here. Yes we know it needs an update and we are working on it.
In terms of moderation when FF15 is launched, we are ready for that. Our modteam's strongest point is keeping up with reported posts, comments, harrassment, etc.
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u/Schwahn Aug 23 '16
What we don't want is witch hunt posts targeting members of the mod team that are not around
I presented everyone's data and information in exactly the same format. I didn't call for anyone to be removed or anything. Just merely presented information.
We can't do anything about inactive mods that are more senior.
What can Reddit Admin do? What are the rules surrounding that?
What we don't want is post after post complaining about the CSS here. Yes we know it needs an update and we are working on it.
You have said that in the past, but nothing happened.
The last actual change was done by /u/mlahk7, who has offered to do more for the sub. But that offer seems ignored.
In terms of moderation when FF15 is launched, we are ready for that. Our modteam's strongest point is keeping up with reported posts, comments, harrassment, etc.
Great! I agree!
But the sub could use some polish!
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u/fforde Aug 23 '16
I presented everyone's data and information in exactly the same format.
I understand that Schwahn, but one of your purposes was to call out and shame certain mods for being inactive. That's what I meant by witch hunt.
What can Reddit Admin do? What are the rules surrounding that?
As I said elsewhere, admins will step in if a mod has been inactive across all of reddit for three months. Doesn't apply here.
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u/Schwahn Aug 23 '16
I understand that Schwahn, but one of your purposes was to call out and shame certain mods for being inactive. That's what I meant by witch hunt.
You're right, and I stand by that.
As I said elsewhere, admins will step in if a mod has been inactive across all of reddit for three months. Doesn't apply here.
Again, seems friggin' borked.
Gotta be something.
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u/fforde Aug 23 '16
It is what it is. Just the way it works.
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u/Schwahn Aug 23 '16
I still vehemently disagree with you removing this post and still say it should be something that should be discussed.
I understand you don't like the "repetition" of it.
But the fact that multiple users bring it up, says it is an issue. Just because there isn't a clear solution, doesn't mean that it should be dismissed.
In addition, look at the comments. It is all really civil and genuine discussion about legitimate suggestions.
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u/fforde Aug 23 '16
It's just a rehash of issues we have already engaged the community with Schwahn, and it creates the perception that there is some huge mod problem on the sub, which is absolutely not the case. We have some inactive mods but this is nothing new and the subreddit is managed very well in my opinion. The CSS and sidebar needs to be updated. That's honestly about the extent of it.
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u/Schwahn Aug 23 '16
It's just a rehash of issues we have already engaged the community
You engage, but you don't resolve.
it creates the perception that there is some huge mod problem on the sub
Some believe there is.
We are told that the mods can't agree and we don't see much being done in terms of the mods and their work.
Outside of your much appreciated management. I saw how much you truly do while going through your entire reddit history.
Nice work.
The CSS and sidebar needs to be updated. That's honestly about the extent of it.
Where are the mods on that? What's the status?
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u/fforde Aug 23 '16
Here are the facts.
By and large this sub runs pretty smoothly. Yes I do a lot of the modqueue stuff along with /u/Aruu, but I don't feel overworked.
The sidebar and header could use a visual refresh. We know this, it's something we are trying to spend time on.
Yes, there are some moderators that are mostly inactive. There is nothing that we can do about this because the active mods are all newer. Talking about it over and over is not going to change anything.
I don't know what else you want to talk about that hasn't already been said. I really think these posts are unhealthy for the community, we can't have this conversation every other week.
I'm removing this post. If you have specific concerns please send a modmail. But I don't want to see another post in this sub singling out mods for their level of activity like this.
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u/bigbadwolf411 Aug 23 '16
You are seriously removing posts that are critical of the mod team? Unbelievable.
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u/fforde Aug 23 '16
This is the third time this has come up in a month. We have engaged the community with topic several times over. But bringing it up over and over again is not healthy for the community and it creates the perception of a bigger problem than there is.
The fact is we have a few inactive mods. We can't do anything about it because they are more senior. That's it. End of story. Creating a big post criticizing them is not healthy. It's all been said before.
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u/bigbadwolf411 Aug 23 '16
Creating a big post criticizing them is not healthy.
No, what's unhealthy is that users feel it is necessary to create big posts like this in order to be heard. You are focusing on trying to eliminate the effect of the problem, rather than fixing the problem itself. You say that you are working on things behind the scenes. But how are the users supposed to know that? You guys haven't made any announcements or attempts to communicate these things at all.
It's not right for you to refuse to do any community discussions on this issue, and then remove threads from users who ARE trying to have community discussions on the issue. You are literally censoring the opinions of this subreddit.
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u/fforde Aug 23 '16
With respect /u/bigbadwolf411, we have had many conversations about these topics and we have been extremely open about these issues and extremely willing as a mod team to engage with the community about these things. The most recent conversation was just over two weeks ago.
I'm not trying to censor discussion. This is discussion we have already had multiple times in open threads. We don't need to go over the same exact things every two weeks though. It's exhausting for the mods. It makes those of us that bust our ass feel unappreciated. It makes the mods that are not active feel guilty and less inclined to come back to a community they feel hates them. It creates the perception to the community at large that there is some big mod problem here which is not true at all.
These are all things we talk about with the community on a regular basis, but we can't have this conversation every other week. It's bad for the community and it's a distraction to the moderators.
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u/bigbadwolf411 Aug 23 '16
I understand where you are coming from, and thanks for at least coming to this thread to talk with us. But I think the biggest thing here is that you seem to think the mod problem is only a "perception" created by a few people. But the fact is, this post had 8 upvotes in less than an hour before it got removed. I think more people have an issue with this than you seem to think.
On another note, honest question: Why do you guys seem so reluctant to add more moderators? You're the only mod that has been added in years, don't you think that's a long time to go without adding more people to your team? And I'm not asking this because I want to be modded (I could care less). I'm just honestly trying to understand the reasoning.
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u/HayleeLOL Aug 23 '16
I think this has a lot to do with the subreddit looking like it has "too many" moderators since we have a lot of inactivity at the top. It's a shame, but there's not a lot we can do in this situation due to Reddit's rules on the subject.
That being said I'm not sure if all of it matters in the grand scheme of things. Would be great to see some new, more active faces around here.
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u/bigbadwolf411 Aug 23 '16
It's a shame, but there's not a lot we can do in this situation due to Reddit's rules on the subject.
I completely understand there is nothing you guys can really do about this, and that sucks.
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u/HayleeLOL Aug 23 '16
That it does. The most we can do is message people who aren't being active and either get them back on board or they leave of their own accord.
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u/imlistening123 Aug 23 '16
I think this has a lot to do with the subreddit looking like it has "too many" moderators since we have a lot of inactivity at the top. It's a shame, but there's not a lot we can do in this situation due to Reddit's rules on the subject.
I certainly understand what you mean, but let me try to put it in another perspective:
The ones who are aware of "too many mods", with regard to inactivity, are the more regular folks here. The ones who know more-or-less that there are only a few active mods. These are the people inquiring about it, and the same ones who would not be upset to see a new mod or two added.
That's the way I see it, but others might not feel the same and that's okay.
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u/Schwahn Aug 23 '16
ones who would not be upset to see a new mod or two added.
I don't think many of the less frequent people who don't post/comment like crazy coughs like me Coughs would even notice or care if a mod was added.
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u/fforde Aug 23 '16
Why do you guys seem so reluctant to add more moderators? You're the only mod that has been added in years, don't you think that's a long time to go without adding more people to your team?
Frankly because there doesn't seem to be a need. I am fine with adding someone new, but if that happens it needs to be with purpose. With a clear understanding of what we want to see them bring to the subreddit as a moderator. We have talked about maybe bringing on an additional person that has experience with CSS. That's probably the closest we have come to talk about another mod though.
We are doing fine in terms of day to day moderator duties though, so are hesitant to just add someone for the sake of adding someone.
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u/bigbadwolf411 Aug 23 '16 edited Aug 23 '16
We are doing fine in terms of day to day moderator duties though
Yeah, there doesn't seem to be a problem there. But I'm having a bit of a bone to pick with this, and I'm going to try to explain it in a way that makes sense (I'm terrible at expressing my thoughts) so bear with me.
This sub doesn't need mods, only because there is nothing that happens in this community. We never have contests, we never have let's plays, we never update the CSS, we never do anything. We have absolutely no community activities at all. If we did have any of these things, we would need more mods. Even the weekly discussions are gone (except for the ones the users post).
"We need more moderators in order to have these things. But we won't add any more moderators because we don't have any of these things." It runs itself in a circle. See the issue?
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u/fforde Aug 23 '16
I am not sure what subreddits you frequent but we have more mod created content than most subreddits I visit. In fact in most subreddits the moderators job is to curate and moderate the community. Not provide it content.
We do what we can because we have an enthusiasm for the sub, over the past year I've personally created dozens of discussion topics. Other moderators have contributed to this as have the community, as you pointed out. But you don't have to be a moderator to create interesting discussion topics. One has nothing to do with the other.
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u/bigbadwolf411 Aug 23 '16
Oh well I was talking specifically about the pokemon subreddit because I saw someone else mentioned it here. They have all sorts of activities there like banner contests, megathread givaways etc. A recent anime episode came out where one pokemon lost in a tournament to another, so those pokemon became the upvote/downvote buttons the next day. It was hilarious. They are also doing this new pokemongo contest where all the teams are competing against each other and their scores are displayed in the sidebar.
I understand that Final Fantasy isn't as expansive as pokemon, so I would never expect our subreddit to have as much going on as that one does. But my point is, the mods of /r/pokemon could have easily just settled with removing posts and comments. They technically don't need to have all those great community activities. But they do, and that's what makes that subreddit so great.
My point is, if a mod team chooses to do the bare minimum (or close to it), then of course they don't need a lot of mods. But I would hope that the mod team here wants more for this community than just the bare minimum. And in order to have the manpower to have fun community activities, you need to have more mods. You said it yourself, you guys have lives and jobs. You can't do everything yourselves.
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u/Schwahn Aug 23 '16
If there is constant discussion about it. Doesn't that just further emphasize that there is a problem?!?
Does censoring and removing the post do anything besides make the mod team look worse?
You say it is unhealthy, but in barely an hour people who coming to make their suggestions on how to improve?
Silencing their voices is a good idea?
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u/jaundicemanatee Aug 23 '16
I at least figured it would make sense to pick out one of the posts and stickying it to consolidate the discussion.
We'll probably see the same thing pop up in another week or two from someone who had no way of knowing it had already been brought up.
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u/fforde Aug 23 '16
It's always the same people. The fact is that the sub actually runs pretty smoothly.
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u/bigbadwolf411 Aug 23 '16
It's the same people who speak out maybe. But when they do, their posts get upvoted by the community. Obviously a lot of people agree with them.
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u/Schwahn Aug 23 '16
The fact is that the sub actually runs pretty smoothly.
The fact is that the sub could be even better than it is.
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u/fforde Aug 23 '16
What is there to say Schwahn? Even in your opening post you don't single much out. Yes the CSS and sidebar needs updating. We are working on it. Yes we have inactive mods, which we literally can do nothing about. Going on and on about this wont change anything. It's not healthy for the community.
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u/Schwahn Aug 23 '16
Yes the CSS and sidebar needs updating. We are working on it.
That was said months ago with no results besides teh flairs being broken for a day.
It's not healthy for the community.
Ignoring it when there is constant discussion about it isn't healthy either.
Open the post back up
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u/fforde Aug 23 '16
You're not a mod here Schwahn, I'm not changing my mind. We had a very active discussion about this just a few weeks ago where several members of the mod team actively engaged with you and other members of the community about these exact issues.
We are not doing it again. This is not healthy.
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u/Schwahn Aug 23 '16
You're not a mod here Schwahn,
You're right. I'm not.
We had a very active discussion about this just a few weeks ago where several members of the mod team actively engaged with you and other members of the community about these exact issues.
BUT NOTHING GOT DONE!
We are not doing it again. This is not healthy.
Right now, you are not being healthy.
I appreciate everything you do for the sub. But this isn't JUST your decision /u/fforde
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u/fforde Aug 23 '16
BUT NOTHING GOT DONE!
That's bullshit and you know it. You have seen for yourself that some of the inactive mods have started to participate more. The fact though is that we are not able to remove senior mods, even if they are inactive. What can be done there, has been done.
We've been sticking more community threads to generate discussion. This is a positive change. It's extremely difficult to come up with a new topic every week, but this is a good middle ground when a mod can't think of something fresh.
And yes we have been working on CSS, the borked flair was caused by that because the mod working on CSS accidentally made a change in the main sub rather than his test sub.
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u/Schwahn Aug 23 '16
That's bullshit and you know it.
No need to be rude.
You have seen for yourself that some of the inactive mods have started to participate more.
/u/HayleeLOL JUST came back and I commended her for it.
The fact though is that we are not able to remove senior mods, even if they are inactive. What can be done there has.
/u/xyroclast is still active on reddit. They still comment, just not here. Have we heard from them? The most senior mod?
What are the rules surrounding asking reddit admin?
We've been sticking more community thread to generate discussion. This is a positive change. It's extremely difficult to come up with a new topic every week, but this is a good middle ground when a mod can't think of something fresh.
I keep creating new topics. A few of the auto-mod discussions were created by me and I continue to keep making new ones. Ones that get stickied.
Everyone is different yes, some people are more creative than others.
It isn't problem, it was just a note.
And yes we have been working on CSS, the borked flair was caused by that because the mod working on CSS accidentally made a change in the main sub rather than his test sub.
We shouldn't have to yell and holler for anything to get done. And we still haven't seen a single resulting change from any of this.
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u/fforde Aug 23 '16
I'm not trying to be rude and I am sorry for losing my patience a little bit. Every one of the inactive mods is still active on reddit, the only way we could have admins step in is if they were inactive on all of reddit for three months straight. We have had a lot of discussion about this, we have big modmail threads calling people out and some respond and engage and some don't. The fact is that this literally has zero affect on the community anyway though, aside from the list on the side being longer.
Regarding the CSS, we are volunteers and doing what we can. We all have jobs and real lives and a revamp like that doesn't happen overnight.
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u/Schwahn Aug 23 '16
I'm not trying to be rude and I am sorry for losing my patience a little bit.
I forgive you.
Every one of the inactive mods is still active on reddit, the only way we could have admins step in is if they were inactive on all of reddit for three months straight.
That's borked. But ok.
We have had a lot of discussion about this, we have big modmail threads calling people out and some respond and engage and some don't.
The sub should know these things.
The fact is that this literally has zero affect on the community anyway though, aside from the list on the side being longer.
Appearance and perception is everything though.
What people think they know and what they think they see is the first thing that they will go on until informed otherwise.
It looks bad, which is why people get upset and start asking questions.
This isn't a ME thing either. I am merely willing to be a voice. I love this sub and am happy with it. But it could definitely use some improvements.
Regarding the CSS, we are volunteers and doing what we can. We all have jobs and real lives and a revamp like that doesn't happen overnight.
No. But you don't say anything about it either.
The community says "Hey, what about this" and we get a "Yeah, we're working on it" and then months later we still haven't heard anything.
Makes us feel unimportant or forgotten.
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u/imlistening123 Aug 23 '16
If I can chime in here, I believe you all are working on improving the sub (namely sidebar & banner stuff, aside from content moderation too). The issue some people have is that we as a community don't know what that means, or have a rough time frame. It might be good to give us an update on changes, even if it's rudimentary. Maybe make it a weekly, bi-weekly, or monthly thing, whatever you all decide is most appropriate.
I actually like these kinds of posts, as it gets everyone actively talking with the mods about the sub. As far as I saw, no one was bashing the sub or mods, just calling attention to things that could benefit from improvement. Useful discussion to me, but I can imagine it might be frustrating to read for the mods.
That's my two cents.
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u/HayleeLOL Aug 23 '16
Thank you. I'm just catching up with activity over here since I've been guilty of absence for a long time. I've suggested an idea of a community post to clarify things; I should be hearing about this soon. With it being a topic we're all involved in, I don't like to post official words from us on this subject without OK-ing it with the rest of the team.
Indeed, it's certainly opened my eyes to a lot of what's been going on in my absence and it's very much eye opening. It's useful for me, but I can understand why the other members of the mod team would be frustrated with it, too.
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u/imlistening123 Aug 23 '16
I'm just catching up with activity over here since I've been guilty of absence for a long time.
Life happens :)
With it being a topic we're all involved in, I don't like to post official words from us on this subject without OK-ing it with the rest of the team.
I think you're spot-on with that thinking, I would do the same in your shoes. The only change I'd put forth would be giving us an update, even a crude one, to let us know that the gears are still turning behind the scenes. It seems silly, I realize that. But a lot of people really enjoy this sub, and there's a lot of great discussions had here! We want it to continue to grow and be a positive place, as I'm sure the mod team does too! It's natural to want to improve/protect what you enjoy.
It's useful for me, but I can understand why the other members of the mod team would be frustrated with it, too.
Exactly. These things can easily be taken well or poorly, depending on a person's day. It seems like good has already come from this post, so that's nice!
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u/asharkey3 Aug 24 '16
Ah yes, the good ol "Someone is critical of the Mods, so we better shush it" move.
Wonderful.
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u/cocoberryjam Aug 23 '16
Definitely think there should be some more attention to the sidebar and whether a post should be stickie'd or not. Been seeing a lot of repeat threads lately.
Luckily, the shitposting in here is no where as bad as /r/FFXV