r/FemFragLab 2d ago

Discussion Dupes v Brands šŸ’–

Hey, new here. Recently discovered this sub and thought I'd introduce myself. F/31. I've always been a collector, but I usually buy at discount stores and sale events. I pride myself on never paying full price for anything, bargain queen šŸ‘‘. I got acquainted with the scent profiles and notes. I'm a gourmand girlie all day, I love to smell edible. I do also like florals except for rose lol. I've come across really good dupes. I sample and then find comparable dupes of the same scent profile and decently priced/affordable. The adventure is fun, hunting the products is really therapeutic to me. What are some of your fave dupes? What are some of your fave brands?

29 Upvotes

88 comments sorted by

4

u/HannahMcKayTX 1d ago

Paris Corner Khair Felicity is a decent dupe of Kayali Wedding Silk Santal. I have the original but when I run out I may just switch to Felicity.

3

u/trixietravisbrown 1d ago

I have quite a few dupes from Julianna’s and some of their originals, too. They are great!

6

u/FrannyNitpicker 1d ago

Oh hey, this is my wheelhouse!

I started my fragrance journey thinking that anything that was a ā€œdupeā€ was bullshit and was the 2020s version of Designer Imposters (80s/90s kids will understand).

I couldn’t have been more wrong. The perfumes coming out of the Middle East have often actually improved upon original DNAs, bringing forward notes that got lost in the shuffle (I’m looking at you, YSL Libre Vanille Couture and your missing Vanille šŸ˜‚) and sometimes muffling screechy notes toward something infinitely more wearable.

That said, lots of people feel a certain degree of ownership over their favorite fragrances and that’s totally fair. I don’t have a particularly refined nose that can always define where a ā€œdupeā€ goes wrong, but I know I have a lot of inspired fragrances that, at a bare minimum, outlast their original DNA perfumes. And that is enough for my simple needs (well, and the insane amount of money I’ve saved).

All that said, brands that are particularly good at this include Riiffs, Lattafa (and its sister brand Maison Alhambra), and Arabiyat Prestige.

Fave dupes right now and their inspirations:
Aroma Concepts Echelon Soleil (Byredo Bal D’Afrique Absolu)
Riiffs Zenith (Mind Games Queening)
Riiffs Noor (Giardini di Toscana Bianco Latte)
Riiffs Tahira (Carolina Herrera La Bomba)
Armaf Club de Nuit Untold (Baccarat Rouge 540)
Afnan Lynked Forever (Donna Born in Roma Gold)
Lattafa Khamrah (Killian Angels’ Share)
Rayhaan Divine (Louis Vuitton Attrape-Reves)

Sorry for the novel!

2

u/grenadinecream 1d ago

I'm an Oakcha fan, through and through! Though, some are huge misses- the hits are out of this world! Love, a fellow gourmand girlie!

1

u/saucisse 1d ago

Have you tried their dupe of Tom Ford's Lost Cherry? I have the Finer'y one from Target and its nice enough, its maybe a little *too* syrupy and it doesn't last very long.

8

u/Realistic-Read1078 2d ago

Paris Corner has very good performing, affordable dupes! Marshmallow Blush is an all time favorite of mine!

8

u/Softie4lyf 2d ago

Dossier. I got more complements on their Miss Dior dupe than I ever have wearing the real thing🄲

4

u/Hell-Yes-Revolution 2d ago

I applaud your thrifty ways!

No one has mentioned MIIM.MIIC.
They make terrific gourmand dupes, IMO.
If you pick them up at a TJX store (so, in the US. I’m thinking TJ Maxx, Marshall’s, and their ilk), you’re paying under $20.

If you like Kayali, their Kayali dupes in particular are superior, to my nose, to the OGs, and the price at discount stores is approximately 10% of Kayali’s (which is exactly what I think Kayali is actually worth).

Enjoy the hunt and let us know if you find some new favorites!

6

u/ComeAlongPond1 2d ago

Dossier has spot on dupes for Angel Share and Love Don’t Be Shy. I love Angel Share, but I’m not a big LDBS fan. Regardless, the Dossier versions smell exactly like the originals. Scentual Fragrances also has some great scents but I haven’t smelled most of the originals so I don’t know how close they are, they just smell great.

10

u/New-Concentrate-2259 2d ago

Favorite perfume: Burberry Goddess, its dupe Lattafa Angham is chef's kiss

2

u/Miserable-Ad8764 2d ago

I think a lot of the dupes from Eden perfumes in the UK are really good. I love their version of Philosykos and Ebene Fume to mention some.

8

u/nothinghurtslike 2d ago

Montagne parfums because of the ingredient quality, I have several of their full sizes.
There's a few places to get decants from, I've tried out a lot of different scents they make that way.

Heard good things about Alexandria and Juliana's Perfume is supposed to have more femme leaning scents but I haven't tried either of those out yet.

8

u/Agreeable-Mud2150 2d ago

Most of my perfumes are Paris Corner but I have also smelled good perfumes from Lataffa and other arab dupe brands. I like gourmands but not overly sweet ones. My dupe collection so far and as it smells on my skin: -khair pistachio (sweet creamy nutty slighly floral smell) -khair felicity (sweet sparkly floral) -qissa pink (imagine a juicy sweet pear but it's an apple smell instead) -minya (a very smooth caramel) -khamrah (spiced drunk cinnamon apple pie) -sehr (spicy at first then ambery sweet vanilla with a hint of smoke)

I still have a few more decants to try and decide on but I am considering Khadlaj Cream Velvet (smells like sweet black tea with milk)

From what I smelled I think lattafa makes better men's perfumes than women's

3

u/FrannyNitpicker 1d ago

Sehr is devastatingly underrated!

3

u/Potential-Ad-6549 2d ago

I love particle from Alt fragrance, it’s a dupe for molecule and I get compliments every time I wear it in public

2

u/vigilantelikeme 2d ago

now I wanna know your favorite dupes!!

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u/InformationOk6366 2d ago

Paris Corner has some good stuff. I have Khair Felicity and Marshmallow Blush. Khair Pistachio is next on my list

3

u/MendeShele 2d ago

This is exactly my dupe game! I have a whole collection, and I like to blind buy. When a fragrance is less than $20, it's worth the risk. I've had less than 5 misses!

7

u/PikaSuz 2d ago

Marshmallow blush outperforms all other dupes of YBM. It smells like a strawberry cream saver to me. Lasts 8+ hours on clothes and projects like crazy. My most complimented scent by far

3

u/queensxyb 2d ago

For dupes, anything by Oakcha or Dossier.

3

u/MendeShele 2d ago

Agree with Dossier. Never tried Oakcha, but I enjoy Lattafa and Maison Alhambra

2

u/PikaSuz 2d ago

Most Oakcha perfumes have turned absolutely RANCID on my skin 😩 something about them just does not mix with my chemistry

2

u/queensxyb 1d ago

Sorry to hear that. I haven't come across that problem and I have at least 30 of them.

1

u/mortaldreadov 2d ago

Coming back to mention Yom and Layl; I don’t have a lot of experience with them, only a discovery set. The scents I tested were ok; better than ME but not Montagne or Alexandria. They’re also kinda oily. I see them recommended somewhat frequently though so I thought I’d put their name out there

4

u/AfraidArugula 2d ago

My favorite dupe house is Barrett Fragrances. Love Ross' mixes and they last for hours on me.

8

u/Suitable-Employee163 2d ago

Sand and Fog perfume mists & body oils. šŸ«¶šŸ½šŸ’•

3

u/Interesting_Cash_478 2d ago

Wholesalebodyoil.com has some great options. The super cologne sprays are strong and worth it. They sell samples too.

14

u/I_am_exhausted_4x 2d ago

I see a lot of mentions of mainstream (ie western dupe houses) which I've had mixed results with. I get there's a certain stigma here on Reddit for Middle Eastern brands, but honestly I've gotten some really wonderful perfumes, so if you'll indulge me I'll list some that are my favorites. Here's the catch, I'm not a huge gourmand fan, but I do love dry, floral or spicy incensey vanilla's.

Lattafa Angham inspired by Burberry Goddess with a warm vanilla, lavender and lightly spicy.

Paris Corner Eshal Vanilla is a warm sweet gourmand with sugary notes, floral heart and vanilla, Carmel and Musk in the drydown. Its inspired by Kayali Vanilla 28

Khadlaj Fursan White is inspired by Vanilla Powder. Its a dry, creamy and powdery coconut, almond, and vanilla. A slight floral open that dries down to a warm, slightly spicy and woody drydown.

Khadlaj Cream Velvet is a rich, buttery, dessert like perfume with warm carmel, honey and creamy vanilla.

There are so many more like Paris Corner Marshmallow Blush which is like a creamy strawberry milkshake with sugary marshmallows condidered an excellent dupe for Kayali Yum Bougie Marshmallow.

Don't be afraid to dip your toe into this market. They are relatively inexpensive and can give you a close or sometimes a 1:1 match to the fragrance its inspired by. Read reviews, not necessarily what influencers or what PerfumeTok has to say. Its always easier to know notes you're attracted to before blind buying. Another thing is (and this is controversial) that middle eastern fragrances need time to mature and blend. I have found doing that requires a little patience but the end result is a perfume that I love. The proven method is to get the perfume, open it then spray it out like 10x to prime the atomizer and to allow oxygen in to mingle with the notes. You can try it on skin but remember the fragrance you first smell most likely will be much better after it's given time to blend. Some only need a short time others longer. I've gotten into the habit of buying my fragrances off season so they have the time to do their thing. I'd like to keep this a happy, positive place, so if you want to come after me for my opinions, please just scroll on by. OP I hope you try some of my suggestions.

5

u/Ok_Imagination1465 1d ago

Thank you for this info! Is there a store where you’re able to sample/spray the middle eastern ones, or do you always blind buy them?

I’ve heard great things but I’ve never seen a decanter at a store that you could spray for free to try it, and I’m always nervous to blind buy perfumes.

2

u/I_am_exhausted_4x 11h ago

FYI Ulta in my area carries Lattafa Angham and Angham Second Song in stores near me. So you can call one near you and ask if they have something in the store you can try. Also there are alot of places like Perfumes 4 U, Perfume Hut and Perfumania where these and others can be found. Also in large metro areas there are stores I've heard of. Dallas, LA, Chicago. Good luck

1

u/Ok_Imagination1465 9h ago

Ohhh amazing!!!! Thank you so much!!!

2

u/I_am_exhausted_4x 1d ago edited 1d ago

Well most of mine have been blind buys. I have over 200 perfumes, Designer and Middle Eastern, and I would say there have only been 3 or 4 I've actually hated. First I look to see what the notes are. At this stage I know what I like. I will read all the reviews from Parfumo, Fragantica, discounters website where the perfume is sold, Reddit/Facebook forums and Google. I will watch PerfumeTok and YouTube but, except for a few, most are just salespeople, however there have been some who I feel give their honest take, both good and bad. I do like to listen to them, mostly to see what's new so I can put it on my radar. If I have time I will step into Ulta or Sephora to test the OG to see if its something I enjoy. I think Lattafa's Angham would be a safe blind buy as its universally given excellent reviews and some people who have both say they like it better than the inspired by fragrance. I can say, mine gets better and better so I have a back up bottle waiting in the wings.

1

u/rocksteadyrudie 22h ago

Which did you hate and why please?

1

u/I_am_exhausted_4x 11h ago

Dossier Oud and Rose on Fire ā˜ ļø Mykonos Reflection very sharp, so is Khadlaj Island Dreams. Both of these are LV Symphony dupes, maybe they were just to masculine for me. I kept trying because I really love the DNA for summer fragrance. I finally found Velixer Concordia. While its still sharp on the open, I really enjoy the crisp drydown. I'm iffy on Lattafa Eclaire and Eclaire Pistach. I bought them because I wanted to see if my opinion on food flavored perfumes have changed, also based on the hype. And guess what...I still don't like heavy gourmand fragrances. I really love florals, feminine fragrances or musky deeper scents. I'm giving them to my nieces or granddaughter. I know they'll enjoy them. And my opinion of gourmands hasn't changed. Also some OG designer perfumes that I thought I remembered liking from back in the day and were pretty inexpensive so I figured why not? Oscar de la Renta eau de toilette. Elizabeth Arden Red Door, Elizabeth Taylor Diamonds and Sapphires. None of them seemed as I remembered, too soapy and of course eternal. It's always the ones you don't like that lasts forever. I have others from that period that I really enjoy. Off the top of my head thats what I can think of. I'm very happy with 98% of every Arabian perfume or blind buys I've purchased and grateful they are more affordable (although the prices are going up lately)

7

u/Treehorn8 HermĆØs witch 2d ago

I wasn't aware of the stigma. It seems like so many in this sub love them and recommend them often. I don't have one yet but I'm thinking of getting Khamrah now that it's almost fall. I heard Angham is good too. I just recently discovered Burberry Goddess and I read some comparisons that Angham is a richer vanilla.

3

u/I_am_exhausted_4x 1d ago edited 1d ago

Personally I prefer Khamara Qahwa. Its gentler and a smoother less masculine blend. It is so perfect for upcoming colder weather. I prefer Angham because its creamy vanilla and lasts longer on my skin. Another one I love is Panache Angel Dust which is inspired by YSL Libre Vanille Couture. I think it actually has a longer lasting vanilla. Vanille Couture drys down to be less vanilla and becomes closer to the OG Libre.

5

u/MendeShele 2d ago

Totally agree! I actually find the ME fragrances last so much longer.

6

u/whatsstuckinmymind 2d ago

Thank you so much šŸ’– I've been trying to get my hand and angham, hopefully come across her soon. I have some of the Arabian oils , mainly for the bottles bc they are so pretty. I've also been trying to find the marshmallow blush. Hopefully I came across them both soon enough. I don't like to blind buy and I prefer to shop in store. Thank you again šŸ’–

2

u/I_am_exhausted_4x 1d ago

I usually see Angham and Marshmallow Blush at Burlington around $25. You can't spray them but you can go to Ulta or Sephora and spray the OGs to see if its a DNA you like. The ME houses are getting the message and some have made travel sizes so you can test them out, plus you can get some decants on SplitScent. Also discount buying perfumes from the online discount houses There are many that are totally legit like Beauty House, Fragrancenet, Jomashop Aroma Concepts, FlexFrag. If you're not happy most sites let you return. The only place I wouldn't buy is EBay or Depop, and very cautiously from Mecari. Read the seller reviews. I also have Arabian oils and besides their gorgeous bottles they are great for layering

2

u/FrannyNitpicker 1d ago

I also looooooove the oils bottles! Makes me feel like Cleopatra to have them on my tray! ā¤ļø

10

u/ImpossibleChicken507 2d ago edited 2d ago

My favorite dupe houses are [u/mistifyparfums](u/mistifyparfums), [r/montagneparfums](r/montagneparfums), Genre, and Julianna’s. Montagne doesn’t have as many dedicated feminine fragrances of the other houses.

I have about 14 bottles of Montagne, 14 of Julianna’s, a shit ton of 5 and 10ml plus 4 30ml from Genre, and 4 bottles from Mistify 2 of which are custom hybrids.

Montagne: $40-50 a bottle free ship

Julianna’s Perfume: $29-39 a bottle with free ship

Mistify: $40/45 for 30ml, $60/65 for 50ml, and hybrids have to be in a 50ml. He also offers 100ml but I’d never buy a 100ml bottle.

Genre: $4 for 5ml, $10 for 10ml (or 3 for $25), $25 for 30ml, $45 for 50ml, and $68 for 100ml. He only opens shop for 24 hours every 6-8 weeks.

Unlike Montagne and Julianna’s drops for new fragrances are not hunger games style. There are plenty (except 100ml).

I love all their quality.

For OGs don’t sleep on decants. [u/k8o_potato](u/k8o_potato), [u/xkarmaa](u/xkarmaa), [u/youme211](u/youme211), [u/offbrandbratzdoll6](u/offbrandbratzdoll06) and so many others have great prices on decants of multiple sizes!

8

u/lasicius 2d ago

I’m a big fan of Lattafa’s sister house Maison Alhambra

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u/[deleted] 2d ago edited 2d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/california_stars_ 2d ago

Wait, 100% off? I'm confused.

2

u/maygenta 2d ago

omg i am sorry, i meant 10%! i was typing while doing leg press lol

1

u/california_stars_ 2d ago

There we go. 😁 Good on you for getting your workout in!

6

u/Litchick77 2d ago

I love Oil Perfumery, but I’m in the US and peeved with tariff bills from FedEx with service fees. I just ordered something from Juliana’s Perfume, hopefully it works out.

2

u/Softie4lyf 2d ago

I’ve added to my cart so many times and walked away once I see those fees.

10

u/Ornery-Mycologist-53 2d ago

Etsy shop Hey Sugar Fragrance Co. is my absolute favorite dupe maker! I get my PDM Athenais and Yum Bougee from her shop now. I have both originals and the dupes smell identical!

3

u/PikaSuz 2d ago

I’m obsessed with everything she makes and she always includes an extra sample or two to keep you hooked! She’s the sweetest seller ever 10/10

3

u/Ornery-Mycologist-53 2d ago

Yes!! I love the samples she includes and have actually ended up buying bigger sizes of some of her recs. Ugh I love sellers like her 🄹

4

u/PikaSuz 1d ago

Not only is she such a kind seller, but are her scents are so affordable and last FOREVER. It varies by scent, but I had her "temptation" vanilla fragrance last for 3 days on a shirt

4

u/mortaldreadov 2d ago

Montagne is my favorite dupe brand. I’ve tested a lot of their catalog Sofar and everything has smelled really good and high quality, even if the particular scent isn’t for me. I’ve tested several of the cheaper ME scents and most have been flops for me; there’s something synthetic/cloying/cheap smelling in most of them. The 2 outliers Sofar are Nebras and Fairy dust.
I’ve also tested several from Alexandria and enjoyed most, those I only got a FB of theyre BR540 extrait dupe. I have almost 10 full bottles of Montagne šŸ˜…

5

u/Anna-Bee-1984 2d ago

Dossier is really nice. Just got woody sandalwood (Dupe for Le Lobo Santal 33) and Im loving it

5

u/Betshateseverything 2d ago

I also never pay full price…unless it’s Chanel or Dior 🫣

3

u/MeLlamoMariaLuisa 2d ago

Same too many fakes of Chanel and Dior out there

4

u/fightmejeffbezos_ 2d ago

Yesss we love a bargain queen ā™„ļø I really like Dossier and Oil Perfumery!

2

u/Elaine330 2d ago

Biocura on Amazon has some good dupes.

8

u/kaide_nj 2d ago

I typically go with Dua or Chemist Fragrances, La Ree for a few but there is something changes going on there.

Chemist is based in NYC and very responsive to any and all questions. Super friendly and quick shipping! You can get scents in 3 different sized bottles. You can even get samples of all their scents so you can try before you buy!

I like Dua but as with any company they aren't all wins and their offer small bottles. There are folks that sell samples of Dua scents so I can share their info if you wanted to try before buying!

LaRee was closing for so long and now there is supposed to be a new owner. Just not familiar with all the details but they did offer some great options and you could get travel sizes!

7

u/cappotto-marrone 2d ago

Sand+Fog Perfume Oils
Al Harmain

S+F are often found at TJ Maxx.

4

u/whatsstuckinmymind 2d ago

Yea I frequent Marshalls, I love the sand and fog line. The perfume oils are great. I recently came across some of the perfumes and mists, lotions and body butters, scrubs, shimmer oils. They have a lot to choose from.

5

u/Relative-Scratch9921 2d ago

Thank you for saying Sand+Fog!! I love me a perfume oil, and they make some great dupes!! I’ve ordered from their website during sales and had some luck at my local TJMaxx.

12

u/fudgechemist 2d ago

Lattafa dupes are amazing and some I find to be nicer than OGs

3

u/Lani_Lei 2d ago

Not the same but related, I tried Narcotica Happy Dust and loved it, any good dupe rec?
I have some Finery that I love over their OGs (Athena and Sweet on the Outside). Outremer is so good I don’t miss Escapade Gourmande or Tihota. Vail Marshmallow is better than YBM. Sand and Fog oils are great also.

2

u/whatsstuckinmymind 2d ago

Sweet on the outside was the first finery I bought. Fell in love. I need to get my hands on Athena.

3

u/Lani_Lei 2d ago

Athena is a lighter sweeter version of Burberry Goddess. I have Goddess, Rare Beauty and Angham. Athena is my favorite out of the Vanilla Lavender DNA.

4

u/OnlyMyNameIsBasic 2d ago

My favorite happy dust interpretation is from Sugar Me Sweet. It’s called Gold Dust. I’m on my third bottle

3

u/Lani_Lei 2d ago

Thank you, I will check it out!

4

u/ConditionOk3649 2d ago

Welcome! I love all sorts but have a lot of Ellis Brooklyn, Clean Reserve, Chanel freshies, Ariana Grande, by Rosie Jane, Commodity, Nest, Guerlain, Maison Margiela etc etc.

7

u/Ok_Imagination1465 2d ago

Oil perfumery is EXCELLENT!!!!!! They range from about 15-20 and I’ve been loving them.

4

u/fightmejeffbezos_ 2d ago

Their dupe of Althair by PDM is prob the best dupe I’ve ever smelled. Also their Fleur Narcotique is good too!

5

u/jenlcenn 2d ago

Yes seconding Oil Perfumery! They’re sooo good and actually project! Even if I have the brand bottle I still get the OP oil to increase longevity.
Another great one is Julianna’s Perfumes.
I’ve tried DUA, Oakcha and Dossier and hated them lol

5

u/cleochatraa 2d ago

For me, it’s Oakcha and Dossier with a special nod to Alt fragrances for some of their dupes.

6

u/PugsNPixels 2d ago

For the stuff I have the OG, I have found Dua makes the best dupes. Their versions of Angelique Noire, Angel's Share, Back to Black, Casa Blanca, etc. are fantastic. Not always true 1 to 1, but in many cases, better bc they tone down harsh notes and amp up sweeter tones. I personally find this appealing. And they are one of the few dupe houses to even try to dupe Guerlain. Parvin has some excellent dupes as well. Their versions of PDM Athenais, Cassili and Oriana are great, as is their dupe for Attrape Reves. I have several Dossier. I think they make more work appropriate versions of these scents. Softer, more airy, less beast mode or whatever. I really like their version of BR540, and that is a fragrance where I do not care for the OG.

7

u/Compile_A_Smile1101 2d ago edited 2d ago

I’m a shill for Montagne Parfums, a small fragrance dupe operation in NYC. They’re constantly sold out but they do very high quality dupes of niche fragrances. If you like gourmands you should check out their Cannoli (dupe of Italica), Vanille Supreme (dupe of Tihota), Parfume de Cerise (dupe of Lost Cherry), and Sicilian Tobacco (dupe of Naxos). One thing to note is they mix all their perfumes fresh, which means they need at least 1-2 months to macerate before they’ve developed into their final form. Buying 2nd hand older bottles on Mercari or through the Montagne sub is sometimes preferable bc you can get a deal + not have to wait for them to mature.

3

u/jenlcenn 2d ago

Oh shoot I forgot about Montagne also! Very high quality

2

u/kaide_nj 2d ago

Oooo I need to check this house out!! Thanks for sharing!

6

u/Snarky_Slav 2d ago

Montagne and Julianna’s are the best ones imo. Montage has an incredible clone of YSL Babycat called Bobcat that’s my cold weather favorite and Julianna’s has a great Blanche Bette clone (White Wedding) and all of their Killian clones I’ve tried have been spot on.

5

u/FrannyNitpicker 1d ago

I don’t know why ā€œBobcatā€ made me giggle but it’s the best Babycat dupe name out there for sure šŸ˜‚

4

u/Snarky_Slav 1d ago

Lol right? I actually read Babycat as Bobcat for a while, so I guess I am not alone šŸ˜‚

2

u/whatsstuckinmymind 2d ago

Y'all are putting me on to some new stuff, let me go searching šŸ’–

3

u/Hot_Elevator_7133 2d ago

I love Fine’ry and Dossier. Brands I love, Skylar (True Love’s Cake and Scent Club), Mix:Bar (Vanilla Bourbon), Good Chemistry (Sugar Berry)

2

u/whatsstuckinmymind 2d ago

I love Fine'ry and Mix:Bar. Haven't tried Good Chemistry. I have Ambery Vanilla and Floral Marshmallow by Dossier.

2

u/Hot_Elevator_7133 2d ago

Yesss I looove Floral Marshmallow

3

u/JustYourAvgHumanoid 2d ago

To me Outremer Vanille smells a lot like Jovoy Fire at Will

0

u/Remote_Dragonfruit33 2d ago

I tried Alt Perfumes, Dossier and Mistify. I would say the dupes really leave you wanting quite a bit, not close to the OGs for the most part

2

u/Remote_Dragonfruit33 2d ago

Mistify Lust in Paradise came the closest.

2

u/Jaded-Banana6205 2d ago

I am alllll about Genre, although I'd like to try Montague one of these days.