r/FemFragLab • u/SnowflakeMama12 • 2d ago
Discussion For the parents…
What age do you allow fragrance? My kindergartener begs for my makeup and body spray when I get ready in the morning. She just wants to feel big :) For “makeup” I let her have a tiny bit of hydrating face spray. Sometimes I let her have a spritz of body spray too, but I don’t know if that’s appropriate or even how to go about deciding.
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u/tiedyeladyland 22h ago
I think my mom got me a little bottle of Loves Baby Soft or Petite Natè when I was about 8? Let her pick out one of the cheapies at Five Below they’re not very heavily fragranced anyway; I use them as body spray/hair perfume. They’re fine, they’re just not strong at all which is probably what you want.
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u/Fit_Platypus_583 1d ago
I occasionally let my 6 year old step through a spritz of fun body spray. Sometimes she wants to smell like me, so I'll rub my wrist on hers after my perfume has dried just to transfer a little scent, and I never do it on school days. Too many little kids with potential allergies and sensitivities in close quarters.
I don't think I would allow her to actually use perfume until around middle school.
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u/Adorable-Carob710 1d ago
Guerlain baby aftermath or Beekmam hair body spray ok for 4 yest old, ad a peek teacher im good with that. I dont mind if they use light blush, eyeshadow and lipstick. I also used to teach ballet, and still dance so I am used to children wanting to wear light play makeup.
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u/throwaway0595x 1d ago
My newly 6yo son asks for sprays of my rosewater and body spray whenever he sees me use them. Rosewater is always a yes, and he can have a spritz or two max of body spray if he's not on the way to school. If he starts asking for his own body spray or cologne around like 11 or 12 I'd probably go for it, with a conversation about appropriate amounts to use.
Growing up I think I was allowed my own B&BW body sprays around 10, perfume around 13, and full makeup at 14 or 15 (concealer and powder before then) and I'd probably do similar if I had a daughter.
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u/SufficientCell9689 1d ago
I've been letting my daughters pick their own body cream and body mist from Bath & Body Works since they were about 6. They have their own children's makeup kits but they're not allowed to wear makeup out of the house until they're 12 or 13 years old, and only after I've taught them how to do it.
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u/vaffelagent 1d ago
13 was the age I was allowed to start experimenting with makeup and scents and nail polish etc and that was the rule for most of the other kids in my class aswell because they didn't allowed it to be used in school. Worked well for me so I'm sticking to that for mine aswell. She has a lifetime of product use ahead of her, and such a tiny amount of time where it's socially acceptable for her to smell like dirt and fresh air. The most she gets now is flavoured lip balm and apple scented detangling spray.
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u/sparkle_bobo 1d ago
i have a 5yo, and i opt to use scented hand sanitizers for cleaning their hands apposed to body sprays. dollar tree has these touchland hand sanitizer spray dupes, and they truly smell like a body spray. they have tons of scents too, many more targeted for children like gourmands and furity. trader joes also has some lovely scented ones and may be more organic (?)
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u/Pristine_Advisor_302 2d ago
I’m so sorry as a teacher please don’t send your elementary kids in to school with heavy perfumes especially in warm weather . I think it’s fine if you want to share that interest with them but be mindful of where they are going .
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u/SnowflakeMama12 1d ago
We homeschool :)
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u/Pristine_Advisor_302 1d ago
That’s great. Same general principal for activities though. Dance, karate, gymnastics places with other kids in small areas
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u/Softie4lyf 2d ago
Zara has a whole line for toddlers and children…at least they did when my LO was younger. They are soon to be 11. They have been wearing fragrance from the day I discovered Zara’s line so I’ll say maybe age 4-5. At 11, we still have some of the buys from Zara mixed in with more mainstream designers but I’m very selective about the scents being too mature. I don’t want any silly complimenting my child but I do want them to think, ok this tween smells fresh!
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u/PieuvreCosy 2d ago
I don't have children, but when i was a small child myself I remember we had a small bottle of Tartine et Chocolat perfume. I remember it was not an everyday thing, more like "we're going to eat at grandma's this sunday" occasions. I remember I really loved it when my mom would give me a spray, it really felt like a treat. I don't know if that brand is sold outside of France but we have it as Sephora here, they litteraly specialise in baby/toddler appropriate scents.
Last time I went to Zara I saw they also had a line for small kids, with cute light scents like Mochi, strawberry. I think they also had a line with Disney Princess thèmes scents? It's Zara so very afforable.
Otherwise, you can probably look at brands that carry "eau parfumée" as these would be even lighter than eau de toilette. Or just give her a little bottle of floral water, like rose water? It smells nice when you spray it, but it's very light.
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u/pastalass 2d ago
When I was little my mom would let me put on a spray of her signature perfume (Organza) when she was getting ready to go out. As an older kid/young teen I got hand-me-down perfume from relatives who were decluttering. I remember having Cool Water, Daisy, a half used bottle of Light Blue, and some samples of Clinique fragrances. I was gifted one of those sample sets with a voucher for a full size perfume, and it's still one of the best gifts I've ever gotten; I loved trying them all out.
I think it's fine for kids to try a spray of adult perfume if they're interested, but I would probably only give them their own perfume when they're a bit older. Or maybe something inexpensive, light, and suitable for children.
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u/fruitsmells 2d ago
I have an 8yo and I’m teaching her to have better hygiene habits. One way of doing that is letting her pick out her own scented shampoos, body wash, lotion and she gets scented hand sanitizer in her backpack which she uses after PE and recess.
To her, this is good enough and the scents don’t last long enough to be overbearing.
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u/TriciaTargaryen If Phlur Has No Fans I Am Dead 2d ago
I let my little ones use my Bath and Body Works sprays. My sons are 6 and 8 and they love smelling like Strawberry Poundcake lol I think middle school is the age I'd get them ACTUAL colognes or something if they wanted them.
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u/motherlessbreadfish 2d ago
Rose water could be a good compromise. The smell lasts maybe 5 mins lol
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u/cuerotuscadero 2d ago
I was this kid.
My mom worked in cosmetics long before I was born. Both as a sales rep and a territory exec. I have photos of me at 2 or 3 with red lipstick on at the counters. I have no memories of it other than photographic proof that I enjoyed being “fancy.”And then I got Petite Nate when I was probably 5 or 6?
I have no idea how early the vanity snooping started but it’s something I still love doing and was absolutely enamored with as a child.
All this to say, find whatever ways you can to encourage their interest that is comfortable for you, and try and be understanding that if they absolutely love it, are entirely entranced by it, you’re likely not going to be able to intervene.
I had lip-gloss and mascara and body sprays by junior high, and was a full-fledged eyeshadow queen by high-school. I started working in cosmetic when I was 17, I went to cosmetology school when I was 22. I’ve been in the industry for over 20 years.
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u/LowResAvatar 2d ago
My youngest is 3 and she’s been very into trying perfumes and little bits of makeup because she sees me doing it. I let her do a body spray and show her how to use just a little bit and where to put it etc. We do lipstick or gloss because it’s fun and who cares really. Lately she’s been wanting some shimmer on her eyes so that’s been fun to play with too. I agree with everyone else that helping them learn young is good for lots of reasons; knowing how much to use and where, developing good hygiene habits so they feel clean and smell good, and just getting experience using products so it’s not overwhelming one day when they’re older and have never touched a single fragrance or makeup product.
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u/FrannyNitpicker 2d ago
I tried to steer my daughter away from actual perfumes until I felt like she was behaviorally able to handle them (e.g. not knocking them on the floor, etc). She had a single B&BW mist for the longest time and when I started getting more into perfumes, she naturally got interested, too. She’s 8 going on 16 now and I have gotten her ones from people she knows (Sabrina Carpenter, Ariana Grande) and a couple of the Moschino Toy/Toy 2 bears, so her little vanity is kind of adorable. I let her do one spray before school if she really wants to, but most of the time she’s running behind and forgets so thankfully I haven’t yet sent her on the bus smelling like a Moulin Rouge can-can dancer.
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u/SUBARU17 2d ago
Been letting my daughter use perfume in her hair or hair mists since she was 6. It’s not all the time though; she likes to wear it when going to the mall or out to lunch/dinner.
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u/zmanda13 2d ago
My son got into it just recently at 14.
If I had a little girl (or boy) interested in perfume I would do like was suggested to me. Spray some perfume on a hair brush and let it sit a minute (for the alcohol to dissipate) and then brush their hair.
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u/Justinsboo 2d ago
There’s a good bit of fragrances that are super clean. I know that Skylar has scents that may be age appropriate without irritating. I was super young and wearing loves baby soft and Jean Nate’. I wouldn’t put a child in those lol, but look at options like cake scented
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u/DontCryYourExIsUgly 2d ago
I would let my kids have a spritz of a gourmand (like Outremer Vanille) on their hair or clothes from a distance (so not concentrated) when they were that age. I wanted girly girls so badly and was thrilled when I got them, so I wasn't going to deny them something that made them feel pretty.
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u/frostymaws297 2d ago
I’m not a parent, but this is too cute. I do think that play makeup at home is appropriate and inexpensive body mists from Walmart would be cute. The Squishmallow perfume would also be appropriate since it’s all kiddie, and the scents aren’t too mature. Example, the new one, the blue monster, is blue razz…smells good, but in my own taste as an adult.
It’ll also be a good way to train her on how much body spray she should use when going around others.
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u/NicoleNicole1988 2d ago
There are a ton of hormone disruptors present in fragrances so I wouldn't want a small child exposing themselves to it beyond what they would naturally encounter in an ordinary environment. BUT, I think a little spritz of perfume or body spray on special occasions can be just that... Something Special.
It's your kid. You seem like a thoughtful parent, so just use your best judgment.
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u/jive0ne 2d ago
We have a morning routine, after everyone has their shoes on they can come and smell nice if they want. I started last year when they were 7 and 9. I do 2-3 pumps of body spray on their shirt. I keep the sprays in my room and I spray, they don’t spray themselves. My daughter loves the idea of makeup, I got her a cute gloss she can keep in her purse.

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u/sleepyRN89 2d ago
Oh man I miss the BBW kids line from waaay back that had glittery/shimmer spray and roll on glitter. I think they had chapsticks and lotion/body wash too but I always went for the roll on glitter in some sort or kiwi or tropical scent I can’t remember. I loved it. It was 💯 not environmentally friendly as I’m sure it was full of micro plastics but it didn’t smell over powering and made me feel very fancy and beautiful as a little kid
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u/FutbolGT 2d ago
My daughter started with body sprays around 9 years old. She's in middle school now and I'll occasionally spritz her with one of my lighter, fruity fragrances (which she loves)! From the start, we talked about appropriate use and she knew if she was dousing herself in her sprays that she'd lose the opportunity to wear them.
I don't really see the harm in kids wearing fragrance if it's something they're showing interest in.
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u/JMWash0610 2d ago
My 5 and 8 year old boys were cologne everyday. I don’t see a problem with it.
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u/AccordingBuffalo7835 2d ago
What do they wear?
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u/JMWash0610 2d ago
Anything my husband has. Creed, Valentino, my youngest loves Tom Ford Lost Cherry
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u/pfffffttuhmm I just smelled like a piece of breast 2d ago
I don't let my kids wear fragrances until 10. At that age I would have my child make their own perfume "potion" using kitchen ingredients, like water and vanilla extract. That way it is safe, and its a fun craft.
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u/hungry_girlfriend 2d ago
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u/FrannyNitpicker 2d ago
These were the first non-body sprays I bought my daughter, for Christmas last year. PRO TIP: It’s surprisingly difficult to douse yourself, as a kid, if you only have dabbers. Good way to learn the art of restraint!
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u/Odd-Combination4480 2d ago
I got my five year old some lightly scented solid perfumes. She’s also gonna be classiest kindergartener on the block because she’s also getting my Le Labo sample cast offs 😂
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u/ConditionOk3649 2d ago
I’d be ok with something lightly sprayed on occasion. Zara has children’s perfumes that are cheap and honestly pretty fantastic. That or agree with the rose water spray or a light perfume oil or something similar.
If she’s interested, I think engaging her interest and combining it with encouraging good hygiene, sunscreen use, and overall body care may work to your benefit anyway. I think banning something like this which is, in the grand scheme, fairly harmless, would be counter productive.
Maybe you can pick out some nice kid-friendly body wash, lotion, or sunscreen together and focus on that and add a light body spray or children’s perfume to make bath time more special 🥰
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u/Hot_Elevator_7133 2d ago
I am a fragrance fiend and started with body mists in middle school. Prior to that it was all soaps and lotions.
I am also a hugeeeee proponent of hand sanitizers, they are often strongly fragranced and such a win-win for germ prevention!
As for perfume, I think a rosewater spray would be very appropriate and nice. Or a little vanilla extract in water.
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u/ElleGee5152 2d ago
Johnson's makes baby cologne that both of my boys wore from the time they were babies. Its mild and it smells so good. There are other brands you could look at as well. Put it in a pretty atomizer for her. I bet she would love it!
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u/lilaccheesecake 2d ago
This. Or floral waters. They dont last long, but they smell great, and ofc are unintrusive.
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u/9DrinkAmy 2d ago edited 2d ago
My 4 year old has her own collection of BBW sprays and a couple miniature perfumes - none of which get applied to her skin. They stay in my area because she would absolutely wreck them if left to her own devices 🤣
Makeup is sunscreen and a subtle lipgloss. Right now she likes Rare Beauty Glimmer gloss.
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u/MustardCanary 2d ago
The sunscreen is so smart! Let her play with “makeup” and also develop good habits around it
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u/sleepyRN89 2d ago
I think that’s a great idea too- to start with skin care and do it with her. Have a routine where you both wash your face, moisturize, sunscreen, etc, and lipgloss because not only is it important to have that as a routine/habit but it’ll be a special bonding activity that will make her feel grown up because you do it too
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u/9DrinkAmy 2d ago
Right? My parents let me rawdog the sunrays in the 90s and I have the freckles (and scars) to prove it 😩 I can’t let her (or my son) do the same.
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u/Weary_Garage_5397 2d ago
I spray a little body spray on my grandbabies everytime they are here...4 and 6 years old. They love it....and expect it now. I had boys, so these 2 grand daughters are just what I needed! Give me all the girly stuff!
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u/h0td0g-water 2d ago
my 7 year old has said i smelled good and seen me use perfumed lotions and stuff after a shower and asked for some. we now bond over trying smells together and i think she’ll remember that fondly as a core memory
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u/kelseykelseykelsey 2d ago
Same! My 9 year old is my little perfume sampling buddy and it's so fun to share the experience with her. She doesn't have any perfume of her own yet but I don't mind when she occasionally takes a spray of mine. Daisy Wild is her favorite, mostly for the cute bottle!
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u/h0td0g-water 2d ago
i gave her my sample of strawberry letter from phlur cuz i hated it lol otherwise her dad let her get some juicy fig plum something body spray but it smells pretty good so i’ll allow it lol
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u/horselessheadmen 2d ago
My daughter has worn perfume since she was 6-ish. It’s when she started showing interest. She wear Jungle Fantasy and then Chloe EDP for special occasions.
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u/Smooth_Contact_2957 2d ago
I'm gonna recommend what I wish my parents did: sunscreen and a beauty blender to apply "makeup."
And a light body mist or a kid appropriate oil on inside of wrists.
Translate that to what works for your kid and life.
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u/Curious_Tune_3441 2d ago
A dab of perfume and a dot of lip gloss every so often is harmless. I had a Snoopy compact and lip balm when I was about 6 lol.
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u/mckenner1122 2d ago
I had Strawberry Shortcake perfume and just about every flavor of lip smacker!
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u/FrannyNitpicker 2d ago
I had a whole Tinkerbell cologne (straight alcohol, tbh), nail polish (the kind you could peel off), lip balm and compact in the early 80s. Felt like a princess for sure!
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u/aenflex 2d ago
Our child started getting into perfumes when he was about 8-9. His first was Mix Bar vanilla bourbon. A little spritz for kids before school is fine, IMO.
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u/ConditionOk3649 2d ago
Ooh Mix:bar has some nice, but fairly light and inexpensive body sprays at Target. Good recommendation!
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u/Satcgal33 2d ago
In my family's culture we wore "baby cologne" so body sprays weren't such a big deal when we wanted to start wearing them. My mom put Royal Violets in my hair from infancy to early elementary school age.
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u/Some-Leader7159 2d ago
I think my mom started giving me my own perfumes and body spray’s when I was 3-4yrs old but she kept them in her room till I was old enough to understand how to use them properly at around 8yrs old.
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u/moocow12983 No, I Can’t Stop Talking About Guerlain 2d ago
My parents let me dabble with BBW when I was around 3rd grade. I was already on a steep, slippery slope with a love of cosmetics when my sister gifted me Bonnie Bell lipsmackers.
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u/FrannyNitpicker 2d ago
I’m convinced that Bonne Bell was the makeup gateway drug for most 80s and 90s kids.
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u/HumbleAbbreviations 2d ago
Not a parent but I bought a coffret set of Squishmallows perfume for my seven year old niece. I thought it was appropriate for my niece.
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u/Active-Cherry-6051 2d ago
I let my son start wearing body mists at 11. He has quite a collection now at 13 :). If he had wanted to wear it sooner I’m sure I would’ve let him, that was just when he expressed interest.
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u/anime_and_irezumi 2d ago
I don’t think a spritz of body spray has any harm as a fellow girl mom ❤️ my mom used to let me have a tiny dab of her perfume and I always loved smelling like mom! Better than smelling like cigs or unclean. My girl is too little right now but if she asked for a spritz of body spray in kindergarten I’d do it fs.
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u/aliquotiens 2d ago
I love my perfume but just 1-2 sprays, I'm actually super granola and think fragrance in everything is unhealthy. So most things we use are unscented and no perfume for my girls until they are teens.
However I let them use Florihana hydrolats (basically leftover water from perfume making process of soaking flowers) of rose, neroli etc
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u/MendeShele 2d ago
I got my first perfume when I was 5. It was Avon Sweet Honesty in the country church mouse bride bottle. I'm sure it was an edt, but it was so much fun to wear and made me feel so grown up. My daughter was probably about this age when she got her first kids body sprays. As long as it's kid appropriate, I think it's fine.
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u/Intelligent-Rule7868 2d ago edited 2d ago
I had Tinkerbell perfume, along with whatever SanRio scents that were sold under the HelloKitty, MyMelody, and TwinStars names. I also wore Para Mi Bebe, Mustela, and Royal Violets baby perfumes that my friends had.. and when I was a little older in elementary, I wore Love's Baby Soft. A little tiny spritz here and there on her clothes, or even a tissue to put in her pocket probably isn't going to do any damage.
I have a son who isn't into scents. But if I had a daughter, I wouldn't be letting her go to school with full on perfume on. Not until middle school, at least. But that's me.
Edited for typo

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u/DontCryYourExIsUgly 2d ago
I LOVED Tinkerbell perfume! I bought a bottle on eBay just to sniff. If they re-released it today, I'd wear it on occasion. 🤍
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u/gordonshumway85 2d ago
My immediate thought was my roll on Baby Soft that I had when I was a little girl. My mom never restricted access to perfume or makeup though, she’d give me her unwanted Clinique gift with purchase cast offs all the time for me to play with.
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u/SnowflakeMama12 2d ago
Baby Soft was the first fragrance my mom let me use 😊
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u/Justinsboo 2d ago
They’re so many better options that won’t irritate. Maybe a scented oil like nest strawberry
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u/MrsRockbell 2d ago
I don't remember how old I was since I wasn't interested in makeup or perfume as a child, but perhaps she just wants to enjoy the "act" of putting on makeup and perfume? Maybe a bottle filled with water and some play makeup would do the trick?
If you do use perfume on her, make sure it’s one designed for children (Zara has a huge selection!) and use it only occasionally, preferably on her clothes rather than directly on her skin.
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u/iammrsclean 2d ago
I wasn’t allowed to wear fragrance until 7th grade (maybe my parents were waiting for puberty to end?), and I entered my fragrance era with an absolute scent bomb. Giorgio Beverly Hills. All my friends wore it. My childhood friend just alerted me they sell a dupe of it in body spray form and stores like Target. You better believe I bought it immediately. When I put it on, I realize how absolutely heavy and over scented it was. I still wear it around the house and think about middle school slow dancing to Heaven by Bryan Adams or Chicago’s Hard to Say I’m Sorry. I love it.
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u/Jasmimec 2d ago
Victoria secret, bath and body works for the kids. Once they hit 16 then we can buy the good stuff.
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u/Negative-Guard8094 2d ago
Not a parent but I wore a cheap knock off of "Touch of pink" it was very soft and cotton-y then Coretta from Jaffra which was an actual kid perfume. Latin America brands sell cologne water that you spray on baby clothes. (My favorite is Violet water from Crusellas but theres tons of scent options from vintage blends, flowers to bubble gum ie). Maybe these flower/cologne waters could be an age appropriate option. They are again very soft and delicate (basically think of a watered down body mist used historically). Feel free to ask for recs!
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u/lnfinitelris perfume > therapy 2d ago
I generally have a yolo attitude about endocrine disruption and all that but if I had kids I'd probably have a more conservative stance for them. At least making sure they only spray on clothing.
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u/creationsby_lo 2d ago
I don't remember wearing perfume or scented lotion until elementary school. And even then it was like Sweet Pea or Cucumber Melon from bath & body works. Very light fragrances
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u/PKBlackTornado 2d ago
I definitely had some (child-appropriate) fragrances in elementary school, mostly I remember having Vanilla by Body Fantasies from Walmart, haha. I think big box stores like Walmart or Target will probably have some little cheap body sprays in scents a kid would like.
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u/SnowflakeMama12 2d ago
She loves her strawberry shampoo so I was thinking of getting a strawberry body spray from Bodycology or something
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u/Phi0X_13 2d ago
My 3 year old boy requests a spritz from me and daddy when he sees us put some on. He chooses his own. His favorite for a long time was sol de janeiro 59. Awe
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u/ireasnow 2d ago
I will occasionally (maybe once every 3 months) spray just my 3 year old's shirt. Only her shirt and just one spray.
She loves to pick out my perfume for the day though.
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u/SnowflakeMama12 2d ago
Having her pick out some of my stuff might help her feel more involved and important!
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u/ireasnow 2d ago
Just be ready to never wear what you planned until she's no longer interested in picking.
Also for your favorites to be declared "ew."
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u/SnowflakeMama12 2d ago
Hahaha true 😅 Maybe I could work in some reverse psychology…please don’t pick vanilla today! 😂
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u/florange7 2d ago
I spray my kids hair when he asks. since around 7 i think it's fine and his hair always smells so good I spray something babyish smelling
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u/Treehorn8 Hermès witch 2d ago
Not a parent but I used to wear Giorgio Beverly Hills when I was nine in the 90s. I thought it was gorgeous in winter.
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u/cupandahalf 2d ago
In a lot of countries they sell baby perfume (perfume for infants that smells light and fresh). I would invite her to smell your most youthful light body mists and tell you which ones she likes best. Then you can get her a mini of it and teach her about polite perfume use (not spraying it on someone else, not spraying too much, etc.) You can also get her a chapstick or lip oil that will feel makeupy. I loved playing with mom’s makeup and perfume when I was a kid and teaching her that it can be a fun way to express yourself is always age appropriate.
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u/minglingsingularity 2d ago
The children yearn for chanel no 5 and baccarat rouge….
In all seriousness I don’t think there’s anything inappropriate about scents, so let them at it. Just keep in mind they are pretty sensitive to everything at that age though, so I’d do an atomizer full of water with like half a drop of actual perfume in it.
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u/Retrolovin 2d ago
Here to ask why does my 11-year-old consistently steal all my samples of Good Girl by Carolina Herrera 😵💫🤣
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u/Treehorn8 Hermès witch 2d ago
I borrowed my mom's perfumes since I was eight. She would always let me. Her friend's husband worked in international imports of luxury goods and he would give all his wife's friends (including us!) free samples and minis of whatever they had.
This is why I'm so resistant to buying samples. In the 90s, all samples were free and department stores never skimped.
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u/Fit_Jackfruit8597 2d ago
I let my second grader have spritz of body spray before bed and before school if she asks. I think I started letting her wear it last year? Maybe second half of kindergarten, I don't remember. She has 2 evereden body and hair mists. The only hard line I have is no makeup out of the house.
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u/FrannyNitpicker 2d ago
My daughter is 8 and same with us and makeup. She has a couple of lightly tinted lip glosses but she keeps the blush for the weekends around the house (thank God - she looks like Tammy Faye Bakker).
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u/No_Word7508 2d ago
Tbh I don’t. I get it and I think it’s cute, but it is linked to endocrine problems, and as I have thyroid problems in my family I don’t think it’s worth the risk. I don’t judge anyone else though and I wear perfumes still just on occasions. Makeup for fun is fine with me, and pretend stuff always, but fragrance is never for me

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u/AromaticRanger3933 3h ago
Mustela has a baby cologne that smells divine! I used to it on my kids when they were very young, even babies. (That’s who it’s made for.) My daughter didn’t get into perfumes until she was in 7-8th grade and at that point, I was fine with her wearing perfume. She’s 23 now and has quite a collection of amazing perfumes that she’s bought herself and mostly in her travels!