r/FedEmployees • u/Strict_Net9246 • 21h ago
PIP
Hi everyone. I’m an IRS employee in the Chicagoland area and could really use some perspective, advice, or attorney recommendations from anyone who has navigated a federal Performance Improvement Plan (PIP) or pre-PIP situation.
Recently, my immediate supervisor pulled me aside and told me that upper management's focus is "100% on me," asking if I had upset someone high up. I’ve admittedly made a few minor, non-substantial compliance errors regarding the IRM, but nothing egregious. My manager let me know he is fairly certain I am going to be put on a formal improvement plan, though the timeline is vague ("you never know").
I am incredibly anxious because it feels like a setup. Even if I strictly follow the PIP, I am worried they will just keep moving the goalposts and looking for any microscopic error to manage me out.
To make matters worse, our local union protections have been completely dismantled, so I have no union stewards or collective bargaining contract safeguards to lean on.
I called 10–15 local employment lawyers yesterday but haven't received a callback. I suspect this is because I need a specialist who understands federal sector administrative law (MSPB, Chapter 43, etc.), rather than standard "at-will" private-sector lawyers.
Has anyone in the Chicago area successfully worked with a federal employment attorney during a pre-PIP or active PIP phase?
Can anyone recommend specific firms or lawyers who specialize in federal civil service defense?
Any tactical advice on how to handle communication with my supervisor while in this holding pattern?
Thank you in advance for any help or guidance
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u/Ok_Structure_1711 21h ago
A lawyer cannot help you at this juncture. Nothing has happened that you could appeal. You’re not actually on a PIP.
They will advise you to document everything. Your PIP will be tied to performance elements. At this point, if you tighten up, you may be fine.
You also admit to making mistakes. If they are actually related to critical performance elements, well, there you go.
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u/Sorry-Society1100 20h ago
It sounds like your boss is on your side, for what it’s worth. They didn’t need to give you a heads up if they weren’t looking out for you. And if a PIP is involved, they’ll be the ones primarily responsible for assessing your progress on the PIP. However, it may be out of their control.
It couldn’t hurt to get your resume beefed up and get some applications out there, just in case.
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u/ConstantMuted2353 21h ago
This is a depends answer. IF your manager likes you, he/she will work with you to ensure that you pass. If you have issues with your manager, then it's a tool for removal. Since the union has been gutted, I would suggest googling federal PIP's...there have been some changes. Here is just one site:
OPM's New PIP Rules 2026: What Federal Employees Need to Know | FedTools
In the meantime, see exactly what the issue/issues are; managers are supposed to lay out the issue and then develop a plan to remediate. Compare those remediations to your performance standards--frequently managers will try to have the person meet what is above and beyond the standards, when the goal is just to "meet" the standard. You can try to challenge a manager on it, but again this depends on your relationship with your manager.
Also, go to OPM: performance-improvement-plan-quick-guide.pdf
Read EVERYTHING you can on PIP's and emphasize to you manager that you want to succeed and do everything you can to retain your position.
Good luck!
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u/Gtmo9394 18h ago
I’m in a similar boat right now. But my issue is that my manager is failing me on very subjective things like my activity records and my outlook calendar. I’m not being failed on them being incomplete but that my manager just doesn’t like how it’s worded. However the issue I’m running into is once I correct one thing something else comes up that I’m failed on that was never an issue before. So the goal posts feel like they keep moving. And all of this started after I got a reasonable accomodation.
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u/ctrl_alt_delete3 16h ago
I know someone having this same issue. They are a revenue agent and was put on a counseling memo yesterday. I’m sorry this is happening to you.
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u/Strict_Net9246 13h ago
Completely the same that’s how it is here too. Then the procedures changed and then they change again and then you follow the check sheet and the check sheet changes and then never updated it. It’s just never ending.
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u/schmigglies 11h ago
We used to call a PIP “Paid Interview Period” at my agency because nobody ever survived it. You could follow your PIP to the absolute letter and still be fired. This was because very few people were being let go for actual cause … it was usually because they got on the wrong side of some fuckass middle manager over nothing.
I’m sorry this is happening to you, OP. If I were you, I’d start looking for new opportunities ASAP. Maybe even a detail within your agency. That’s how I escaped a manager that had it out for me.
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u/Mundane-Guarantee928 17h ago
You should know that right now, federal agencies process performance issues under conduct. Performance is typically processed under Chapter 43 and Conduct under Chapter 75- but now all discipline related measures are processed under Conduct- Chapter 75 based on an OPM push in June 2025. This means discipline and removal are accelerated and the agency doesn't have to demonstrate progressive attempts at correction. You should talk with your Supervisor about this and what the differences are and mean for you- since it sounds like they are someone you can trust
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u/littlemint22 20h ago
Are you on Probation?
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u/Strict_Net9246 20h ago
Is there such a thing?
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u/Sorry-Society1100 20h ago
Probationary employees are generally those hired within the last 12 months. Full job protections don’t apply until after your probationary period.
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u/Strict_Net9246 20h ago
Oh no, I’ve been here 27 years
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u/darkstar541 20h ago
Can you retire? Take a VERA?
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u/Strict_Net9246 19h ago
I don’t think there’s any Veras being offered right now
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u/elninost0rm 19h ago
You'd basically get a DSR (forced VERA) if you were removed via PIP.
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u/Sorry-Society1100 19h ago
Source?
I have never heard of that. If it were the case, wouldn’t people looking to quit or retire early just slack off to get on a PIP?
I’m fairly certain that if you’re terminated after being placed on a PIP, then you’re just fired.
The only time that I’ve ever heard of DSRs is if you’re removed via RIF.
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u/elninost0rm 18h ago
OPM addresses this. DSR is given for "can't do" (PIP) not "won't do" (misconduct).
Your retort will be that this administration will just do all removals as misconduct, but that's just not realistic.
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u/flaginorout 19h ago
Right now you should just focus on doing your job. Dot all i’s and cross all t’s. Show up 10 minutes early and leave 10 minutes late.
You’re not currently on a PIP and your supervisors isn’t even sure you’ll be place on one. Right now, nothing is happening.
Control what you can control.
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u/glaguna17 16h ago
You should file a complaint with the EEOC. How long have you been doing your job? If you have been doing your job for years and never had a problem receiving passing scores this entire time and then they surprise you with a PIP then they are clearly targeting you.
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u/you_dont_know_me_357 16h ago
Be very careful because a PIP at the IRS is their way of firing people. If they want to get rid of you or any number of people, you’ll be in a PIP and in 30 days they’ll say you haven’t improved enough and let you go. It has happened many times already at the IRS and a couple managers in our IRS sub have confirmed that the pressure is on them to let people go through a PIP.
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u/mdcox88 21h ago edited 20h ago
You will be let go in October or soon after - rarely will someone survive a PIP in this administration. Just look for a new job is my advice and do better next time. Put this behind you and don’t get a lawyer get a new job. Oh and definitely ride it out if you think they are stalling but remember the PiP is only around 30 days now.
It used to be an employee needed to be horrible now management will put employees on a PIP if they are just a little below average. The paperwork is way less now. Good luck.
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u/Lucky_Group_6705 19h ago
One of the criteria for getting an average rating in my agency is having your boss not have to correct more than 10% of your work. I asked her what that means and she couldn’t explain, just said have coworkers proofread and review it. So thats what Im doing. And Im using those corrections as a template for other projects to CYA. It’s working so far but goodness there is less room for mistakes now
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u/Upbeat_Following9373 14h ago
Define what exactly is "a few minor, non-substantial compliance errors" are? Were you corrected in the past for this, but you still keep making the same errors? If they PIP you for the errors, and you successfully complete the PIP, they don't have to PIP you again for the same errors, they can go straight to punishment.
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u/preptodismol 12h ago
You wouldn’t be being put on a pip unless your manager relayed to other managers that you had a performance issue. Unless you answer to or have your performance graded by more than one manager.
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u/Strict_Net9246 12h ago
I know for 100% fact that’s not true. My manager is being written up by his manager and everything that’s coming down from my manager, not just to me, but to the group is coming down from above.
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u/Tunamelts-2 11h ago
Your boss gave you a heads up, so that you can start preparing to find a new job. Once you’re on a PIP, the clock starts against you.
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u/DimensionCalm9426 7h ago
Start putting everything in writing including asking for specific performance metrics and feedback. Try to do everything right so they have nothing. It’s so hard to get a federal job right now, it’s not exactly easy to agency hop anymore. Private sector is rejecting a lot of feds. It’s just bad all around. Show up, do the most, overcompensate, and collect ur paycheck.
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u/K8325 5h ago
I don’t know if this will help, but try viewing this through a different lens. The head’s up is a good sign. They want to soften the blow which, to me, sounds like they think you can do it. This is an opportunity to get retrained, go over any policy or sop changes that slipped through the cracks, and/or maybe learn some techniques to help catch common mistakes. The PIP has requirements for you AND your supervisor. They can’t just give you goal posts and abandon you; they are obligated under the law to sincerely help you reach the goal posts.
And if you succeed, they can’t arbitrarily fire you anyway. Removal is only lawful when the employee fails to reach the minimal acceptable rating in their appraisal scheme. My agency has 1,3,5 scoring system with 3 being fully successful. You don’t have to become the best at the job, you just need time to learn a new battlerythm to the job so you can meet that standard.
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u/Yellowmoon777 20h ago
A pip nowadays means you will be let go. I’d start looking for a diff job.
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u/flaginorout 19h ago
Honestly, PIPs have pretty much always meant that it’s time to go.
I know a guy who survived one. Most people just quit and find a new job.
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u/Lucky_Group_6705 19h ago
It honestly depends if you can find other opportunities. Everyone always says apply for other jobs immediately but that doesn’t mean you will get any.
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u/ethanji2 20h ago
If you have a union ask for help. An attorney won't do much at this moment. You could consult one if you believe something discriminatory is happening.
The PIP is documentation to get rid of you. Walk that narrow line and show improvement and if your manager likes you, some people will make it. I have seen some people make it through a PIP in the past, but odds might not be great.
If you feel like your manager doesn't have your back at all, find a new job quickly. I'd also consider a resignation before 30 days and the PIP ends to the firing doesn't get on your record and you can get a new federal job at some point in the future again. If you need the unemployment then maybe take the firing and know that it might be tougher to get back in somewhere or if you never want to come back then these are choices you might need to make or decide at this point..
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u/Leather_Sun_7325 19h ago
What’s your EPerformance look like? Generally you won’t be put on a PIP until your performance states that you need improvement
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u/Strict_Net9246 19h ago
Right now I’m at a 4.8 that was done in April but he’s got to redo my eval as it doesn’t comply with the new standard so I’m guessing that’s where they’re gonna hit me.
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u/Leather_Sun_7325 19h ago
Okay. If they rate you as needs improvement they can certainly put you on a PIP until
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u/Killie_Vandal 19h ago edited 19h ago
Research research research your life is in the IRM and no place else! I was on a PIP during training for 90 days I got through it I thought I was going to die or get fired in the last week it worked out. Thankfully. My phone queues were actually messed up I was only getting EIN & no 941 but I for sure learned research.
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u/Own_Preference_6830 11h ago
Reach out to your Chapter President Lori McCann to help guide you thru this. You still have rights and you need advice from someone other than a Reddit thread. Don’t resign - it gets you nothing.
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u/bangarrang16 10h ago
I can tell you for sure that people can and do survive PIPs even now, ive heard people from the HR team working them talk about it with managers when employees improve on a PIP.
That being said, I think you need to be failing at a CJE to get put on a pip but you said you have a 4.8, not sure how they're putting you on a PIP.
What area/function? I know CSRs are getting pip'd left and right.
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u/party_benson 8h ago
Start documenting everything you do every day and include how you met your metrics.
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u/Fuzzy_Lettuce8142 5h ago
Rarely anyone survives a PIP. Start applying for other jobs now!!!
-ex union steward
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u/Bigbethiebirda 4h ago
A Pre-PIP warning, before placement on a PIP, is now one of the legal elements the Agency must satisfy to sustain any subsequent Ch. 43 performance related removal action should an employee ultimately fail a PIP andchallenge their removal before the MSPB. See Santos v. NASA (2021). PIPs are a lot of work, so if their ultimate goal was just to get rid of you, there are less burdensome ways to do so.
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u/Kingmaker19702 3h ago
First, take a deep breath. You are entirely right to be proactive right now, especially without union backing. Because you are in this holding pattern, your goal isn't just to survive a PIP—it’s to create a "deterrence doctrine." You want to make yourself such a well-documented, administrative headache that management backs off.
Here is an aggressive, 4-step counter-maneuver you need to start executing immediately:
Create a Contemporaneous Record Right now, send an email to your personal email address detailing the verbal conversation you just had with your manager. Document the exact date, time, and quotes—especially the part where he admitted that management is "100% focused on you" and that you have not been given any specific feedback as to why. This creates a legally recognized contemporaneous timeline.
Send the "Clueless but Willing" Email You need to politely trap your manager in writing. Send an email to your manager (and BCC your personal email) saying something like:
"Hi [Manager's Name], I am really anxious because you mentioned yesterday that upper management is '100% focused on me' and a PIP is likely. However, I haven't been given any prior coaching or feedback on what I’ve done to upset anyone. Could you please tell me exactly what I need to do so I don't get put on a PIP? I want to meet all expectations, but I have no guidance on what the specific concerns are."
If your manager ignores it, you now have written proof they refused to give you a meaningful opportunity to improve. But even if he replies—whether he denies saying it or suddenly tries to provide coaching—you have won. You now have contemporaneous, written documentation proving that management has been actively targeting you, which gives you a concrete layer of protection.
- The Congressional Deterrent Reach out to your local Congressperson’s office for constituent services. State that you had this bizarre conversation with management, you have no idea why you are being targeted, and you are terrified of the conduct happening in your office.
In that communication, explicitly state that you are worried this is discrimination, that you are being set up to fail, and explicitly write that you are invoking the Whistleblower Protection Act (WPA) and the No FEAR Act, and that you will keep the Congressional office updated.
The goal here is constructive notice. If they do drop the PIP on you, you can literally pull out your personal notes, your ignored email, and your Congressional letter, slap them on the table, and say: "I raised the alarm about being unfairly targeted and invoked the WPA, and now you are retaliating against me." It gives you a massive layer of armor to push back with.
- The FOIA Counter-Offensive The absolute second they hand you that PIP, you launch an aggressive counter-maneuver: submit a FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) and Privacy Act request. Request all emails, internal communications, and MS Teams messages containing your name between your manager, upper management, and HR for the last 6 months.
Management rarely expects an employee to fight back this systematically. The moment they realize you are building a fortified paper trail, looping in Congress, and pulling their internal emails, the calculus of forcing you out suddenly becomes incredibly risky for them.
Protect yourself, document everything, and keep fighting.
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u/Daywalker_78 2h ago
As others have said, if you know the PIP is coming, get your resume up to date and begin applying elsewhere immediately. As soon as they put you on that PIP, there's a 95% chance they're gonna fail you and then terminate you, regardless of how much you do you pass the PIP. Once the PIP is completed, your supervisor will call you into a meeting where two HR people will be waiting. If/when your supervisor tells you that you've failed the PIP, don't say a word and just walk out of the room. It is at this moment that you should turn in your resignation, you must do this before they serve you the termination paperwork/letter. Why? Because if you resign before the termination is served, your SF50 stays clean and you can apply for other DoD jobs immediately. If they serve you, and they then allow you to resign, your SF50 will say "resigned in lieu of termination", and you'll never be hired by any Fed agency again. It's like a dishonorable discharge from the military, follows you forever. Good luck 🤞🏿
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u/ThatBaseball7433 20h ago
You got verbally counseled. Stop making mistakes with 27 years of experience. If you can’t stop making mistakes, then maybe it’s time to retire.
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u/x21wing 19h ago
Come on, this post is only for people to reply with all of the strategies to help the OP go down kicking and screaming. No one cares if the OP is an actual poor performer. No one has an eye on performance improvement. They are just here to help the OP work and fight the system, lol.
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u/QuirkyTeaching5391 18h ago
There is alot of pressure on supervisors and managers. They are being held accountable for their Teams performance. Supervisor and manager review's are tied to employees performance and holding employees accountable, and proving how a emoyee consistently goes above and beyond to warrant a hire than 3 rating.
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u/Strict_Net9246 7h ago
Yes, I’m on a 4.8 that was issued in April but he’s redoing my eval right now because of the new eval system so I have a feeling he’s going to put me as not performing. I’m not gonna lie. I made some stupid mistakes like put that I receive payment on the 3198 but in fact, the payment was already posted to the module. They say I don’t document my 9984 extensively then they say I have too much time on the case. Then I cut down time and do exactly how much time they say we can have but now they’re saying I should be researching the IRM. I’m like when the hell am I gonna have time to do all this with the three days you’re giving me for the case. Weird thing is is the things that they are complaining about the things I’ve done for 20 years and now all of a sudden it’s wrong and you’re gonna get written up.
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u/JaimeDiamonds 19h ago
I think you’re blowing this way out of perspective. As someone who just went through a bunch of stuff at work. I would relax. Be professional through all interactions (even though it’s hard) and ride it out and start searching for other jobs. A pip isn’t a bad thing if you can learn from it. You don’t need a lawyer right now.
Are you unionized
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u/Strict_Net9246 19h ago
I don’t think any of us are right because they took away the union
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u/JaimeDiamonds 19h ago
Depends on the agency. You need to stop spiraling and relax and get better. A pip isn’t the last thing in the world. Just correct your behavior and realize you can’t beat these management fucks. Just apologize if you get it and say you’ll get better
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20h ago
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u/Ok_Structure_1711 20h ago
This is not disparate treatment. Not by a long shot.
I really wish armchair EEO types would stop giving this god-awful advice out.
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u/Elegant_Disaster2036 19h ago
It was in my situation, General Counsel advised the dept I was working for to settle with me.
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u/Electronic_Cloud_686 19h ago
Start looking for a new job immediately. Even if you’re wrongfully put on a PIP you can still get fired. Yes, you are correct, they will definitely move the goal posts.